Blind Item #10 - Old Hollywood
It was just around the start of WWII. New York. He was young, just out of his teens -- tall, Scandinavian, striking. He met a slightly older man. VERY sophisticated, very witty, very romantic. Rather movie star handsome because, well, he actually was a movie star. A few years into his film career, he was typically the second romantic lead or the first villain. A versatile and pretty good actor. Distinctive. Artistic. Stylish.
Despite the times, the star was very comfortable with his sexuality -- he preferred men but really liked women, too, and was married a number of times. Had several children. But, always loved men. Loved this young man. They ended up having a steamy fling which turned into a friendly on again/off again affair, lasting about six years. Whenever this older man was in town, or they could meet somewhere in the middle, they would dine, and walk, and talk. They had fun. The younger man learned a lot about the world, being in love, gaining confidence, manners, and a lot of good tips on simply getting through life in that era as a gay man, while still being authentic. He never lost his deep affection for this man, considering him a mentor. This younger man is now in his 90s. He clearly remembers this time in his life, and the gentleman as exactly that: a gentle man. A kind man. A sharply funny man. Of course, our actor is long gone but fondly remembered by his many fans as a true sophisticate, a man of good taste with a dash of campy good fun, who gave us some great movie moments. Perhaps it was sleight of hand, but he remains one person out of so many in Hollywood who managed to make it all work for him all those years, living his life on his terms, and to the end, having a whale of a good time.
Despite the times, the star was very comfortable with his sexuality -- he preferred men but really liked women, too, and was married a number of times. Had several children. But, always loved men. Loved this young man. They ended up having a steamy fling which turned into a friendly on again/off again affair, lasting about six years. Whenever this older man was in town, or they could meet somewhere in the middle, they would dine, and walk, and talk. They had fun. The younger man learned a lot about the world, being in love, gaining confidence, manners, and a lot of good tips on simply getting through life in that era as a gay man, while still being authentic. He never lost his deep affection for this man, considering him a mentor. This younger man is now in his 90s. He clearly remembers this time in his life, and the gentleman as exactly that: a gentle man. A kind man. A sharply funny man. Of course, our actor is long gone but fondly remembered by his many fans as a true sophisticate, a man of good taste with a dash of campy good fun, who gave us some great movie moments. Perhaps it was sleight of hand, but he remains one person out of so many in Hollywood who managed to make it all work for him all those years, living his life on his terms, and to the end, having a whale of a good time.
Gregory Peck? Whale reference.
ReplyDeleteMy God, he was DASHING in “The Omen” and “Roman Holiday”.
DeleteI’d bonk it (but only with a condom in “The Omen” 😱😱😂💛🤣).
Am I the only one that was waiting for some sort of pay off here?
ReplyDeleteAnd what a pleasant surprise... They just enjoyed life! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
DeleteDick van Dyke
ReplyDeleteDick Van Dyke is still alive. I thought Peck, too, but he was only married twice.
ReplyDelete@Ian Fowler.
ReplyDeleteGregory Peck would have been A+ in his day ,not second romantic lead or first villain.
@cheesegrater, says he’s in his 90s which dick van dyke is.
ReplyDelete+1 @ Ian. I think Gregory Peck fits. Great, great actor. If this is him, happy for him that he lived his life his way.
ReplyDeleteRalph Bellamy. It's gotta be Ralph Bellamy.
ReplyDeleteRandolph Scott for the dead actor?
ReplyDeleteI don't know why I was thinking the guy still alive wasn't an actor. Dick Van Dyke could work for him.
ReplyDeleteRichard Basehart.
ReplyDeleteI checked the IMDb for oldest living actors and only Dick Van Dyke and Half Holbrook really for the bill.
ReplyDeleteHal not Half, though that's a great name for midget porn.
ReplyDeleteCongrats that is the dumbest thing I have read all day lol.
DeleteNot Gregory Peck, he has been the lead in MANY films, is one of the Grestest stars of all times in many lists
ReplyDeletewhat an handsome man he was, sigh
i am sorry, but" Scandivian"?
ReplyDeleteNorway, Sweden, Denmark. Van Dyck fits as Scandinavian as a last name for the area.
ReplyDeleteI'll go with Vincent Price for the older actor.
ReplyDeleteIf it was van dyke, he often talked about his inspiration being Stan Laurel. Does he fit for the older actor?
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ReplyDeleteI think chuckmcg3 has it- Vincent Price was in the Whales of August. It was the only role that earned him a nomination, hence the whale reference. And he was leading man number two in Laura, but played many villains and was campy as hell!
ReplyDeleteYes! And married 3 times
DeleteVan Dyck is Dutch or Flemish, not Scandinavian.
ReplyDeleteMore Dutch. But def not Scandinavian, I agree (as a flemish speaking person.)
DeleteThe Scandinavian thing is a bit vague.
ReplyDeleteDoes it mean in looks?
Or that he or his heritage was actually from Scandanavia?
If it Dick an Dyke (which is a surname from Holland) it might be because of the seemingly endemic American failing of not knowing their Dutch from their Denmark.
Scandanavia is usually defined as the kingdoms of Norway, Denmark and Sweden, with Finland loosely lumped in their sometimes too.
Holland, or more correctly The Kingdom of the Netherlands, is not in any way Scandanavia.
Though they do fit the lazy Germanic, blonde stereotype like most of Northern Europe.
Here endeth the geography lesson for uninterested Colonials.
Van dyke is dutch, which is Scandinavian
ReplyDeleteNo it's not
DeleteSomeone was asleep during geography, part "The Netherlands is located beside Belgium, not Norway" 😂
DeleteVincent Price was a very cultured man. An art collector.
ReplyDeleteDamn you Nutty and your quicker clarity and brevity!
ReplyDeleteDamn you to Hull!!!
Not an autocorrect, Hull is a fucking shithole.
Vic is correct. The Netherlands, and the Dutch people who live there, are not Scandinavian.
ReplyDeletegeorge sanders?
ReplyDeletePerhaps the Scandinavian man is Max Von Sydow?
ReplyDeleteI was thinking Vincent Price or Laurence Olivier, maybe?
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ReplyDeleteVan names are Dutch, not Danish. Not Scandinavian.
ReplyDeleteMax Von SYdow was my guess, too, but the blind says " the older man is " long" gone" and Von Sydow is still alive, so, not him
ReplyDeleteI thought Cary Grant for the older man but he only had the one child, despite his many marriages.
ReplyDeleteThought maybe Douglas Fairbanks Jr but he served in WWII.
I'm also of the opinion that the Scandinavian is not an actor.
Cary Grant was from Bristol, England.
DeleteHolland is Viking adjacent😎😁😋
ReplyDeleteBut Sydow might be the " slightly younger", yes
ReplyDeleteactually, now that i read the blind corretly i think Sydow is the correct answer for the" mentored" man
He would have been 10 at the start of WW II.
DeletePrice was the lead in Dragonwyck, he played a Dutch colonial in it. His daughter said she was sure without actually being there that he had affairs with men. I can't think of who would still be alive who worked with him.
ReplyDelete" I'm also of the opinion that the Scandinavian is not an actor. " yoy are right..he blind is about the older actor, but doesn't say that the younger actor is or was an actor, too
ReplyDeletebut the older man cannot be Cary Grant, too, he, like Peck, was leading man all the way
Vincent Price was my first thought as well- we was married three times, but it was an open secret he was bi and preferred men. He always seemed like such a genuine, kind, not giving a flying fladoodle what you think person!
ReplyDeleteI was originally thinking Von Sydow too, but he didn't leave Sweden to pursue his career until the sixties.
ReplyDeleteI instantly thought of Vincent Price once the word “campy” got involved. Gay rumors or innuendo aside, he is remembered by those old enough to do so as witty, urbane, cultured. Totally sounds like him.
ReplyDeleteAside: “Thriller” freaked me out as a little kid. My mom played the record nonstop. She had to explain to me that he really was a nice man with kids of his own, not scary or evil. That voice, though!
Also, Enty describes him as artistic. Price was big into art, a collector and lecturer.
DeleteThis is a nice story. Kinda reminiscent of OG Enty. Who I miss very badly.
ReplyDeleteI loved Randolph Scott, but he was of Scottish descent.
ReplyDelete@Disillusioned Fan.
ReplyDelete" 'Thriller' freaked me out as a little kid. My mom played the record nonstop. She had to explain to me that he really was a nice man with kids of his own, not scary or evil. That voice, though!"
Well she got that waaaaaay wrong. What did she say about Vincent Price?😄
so, we have
ReplyDeletea young man, tall, scandivian and young, but we don't know with profession this man had that meets
an older man, a movie star witty, sophisticated, bisexual ( tough preferred men ), married more times, etc, etc
this blind is just about the older man-movie star
if the young man was " just out of his teens" he was around 20 years old...and the movie star older, so, around 20-25 years older at times, that was" at the start os the WWII, which mean 1939
so, the guess is an actor sophisicated ,witty etc, that was around 20-25 or 30 years old at most at times
he also has been married, more than once , and has had children
Vincent Price.
ReplyDeletePrice started his career just around the 1939, idk if he could be already considered a" movie star"
ReplyDeleteand he was 28 years old when he got his first movie role
Vincent Price is a very good guess!! Used to see him on TV and thought he was very flamboyant and could see him being BI. Friend of MJ too.
ReplyDeleteRead the blind, the younger man is Scandinavian, not the star.
ReplyDeleteVincent Price could fit for this blind, he always pinged the gaydar. Married three times, don't know if two children counts as "several" but it's multiple.
ReplyDeleteClaude Rains
ReplyDeleteThe blind mentions "sleight of hand" which suggests someone who was an amateur magician (many actors were/are), had an interest in magic, or at least played a magician on film. Vincent Price fits at least two of those.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking Don Ameche, but Vincent Price fits.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Powell?
ReplyDeleteAnd Orson Welles for mentor. He was a magician (slight of hand). Fits the whale clue (Moby Dick film). Spouses. Kids. Etc.
ReplyDelete+1 @dave peters
ReplyDeleteOrson Welles sounds good and also give me a chance to post a link to his hilarious frozen pea commercial out takes.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if they were shown in the States because - at least back in the day - big Hollywood stars were a little up themselves and sniffy about being caught grubbing for gold like us plebs and peons. Hard to believe, innit?
But Welles in particular when abroad would whore himself out to any product if there were a few hamburgers in it for him.
In the Seventies he was more known (and ridiculed, "Colorado armadillo") in Britain for his Sandeman Port TV ads than The Magnificent Ambersons or Citizen Kane.
These out takes show him treating a voiceover for a frozen peas and as if he were directing Titus Andronicus at the RSC at Stratford on Avon.
Think of the Casey Kasem thing or the Troggs Tapes....
https://youtu.be/tyko_oQ0da8
Hahaa I always think of the Critic, where they make fun of that.
Deletehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6i7ycxiog40
Nancer, I was thinking of George Sanders, too. But it's probably Vincent Price.
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ReplyDeleteLove these Old Hollywood blinds!
ReplyDeleteChuckmcg3-- great guess with Vincent Price! I had originally been thinking Clifton Webb, also from brilliant Laura, but Vincent of three marriages and kind rep is much better fit.
Orson Welles is an good guess, but I think it's Vincent.
Dick Van Dyke was an unexpected but interesting guess for younger man...it doesn't specify what the younger man became!
I'll guess Errol Flynn for the older movie star.
ReplyDeleteI thought everyone knew Vincent Price was bi.
ReplyDeleteRobert Redford? Career began in NY in the 1950's. Had 4 kids. No clue if he was friends with Vincent Price or Gregory Peck though.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think "Scandinavian" I don't think ancestry - I think looks. Kris Kristofferson and Paul Newman come to mind - bright piercing blue eyes, high cheekbones, fair haired. Tall is another one. Like Dolph Lungren-esque (less along the lines of my beloved Mads Mikkelson). I for sure thought Paul Newman at first but he is deceased.
Cary Grant only had one kid
ReplyDeleteI was really stuck on John Wayne for this, idk
ReplyDeleteVincent Price
ReplyDeleteSound like Price for the star, but he had only two children. His daughter does believe her father had sexual relations with men.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought was Vincent Price too, and I'll stay with that thought.
ReplyDeleteOrson Welles? Hell no! Daily Beast wrote this headline about him, depicting him as in no way sophisticated:
Go F—k Yourself: The Real Orson Welles
That was Orson Welles’s response to most people. Christopher Bray on a new book that presents the director at his maddening best.
Don't think is Orson, he became famous in 1941 with Citizen Kane, it's a bit too late for being already a " movie star " at the start of the WWII
ReplyDeletealso, while he may have been attractive, somehow, i wouldn't call him " movie star handsome"
2nd guess- John Carradine for the older actor that played villains.
ReplyDelete3rd guess- Olivier
can't wait for the reveal on this one!
ReplyDeleteMentor: Vincent Price
ReplyDeleteMentee: Scotty Bowers
My guess also
DeleteI thought of Rex Harrison. About 5 wives, a couple of kids, from England and died in New York.
ReplyDeleteThis just reminds me of a cultured, older Scandinavian man I used to know. 🖤
ReplyDeleteThanks for the good feels...
I wanted to say Claude Rains for the older actor--A- range, stylish, married six times, BUT only one child.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYounger Man - Dick Van Dyke (?)
ReplyDelete1. The blind says the younger man LOOKED Scandinavian, not that he is. Dick Van Dyke has English, Scottish, German, Swiss-German, and Dutch ancestry. Holland (Dutch) is not Scandinavian. In my opinion, DVD did look Scandinavian when he was younger.
2. Dick Van Dyke does magic tricks. I remember seeing him perform some on his show Diagnosis Murder. He seems like a cool guy too.
THANK YOU ENTY, MR. X, AND CDAN COMMUNITY FOR OLD HOLLYWOOD BLINDS AND REVEALS.
THANK YOU ENTY AND CDAN COMMUNITY FOR CHEERING ME UP!
With Love,
T. W.
Vincent Price and the amazing Scotty Bowers.
ReplyDeleteVincent Price and Scotty Bowers - Scotty is 95 now and was a gorgeous young man. He claims to have slept with half of Hollywood. I just watched an amazing documentary about him. What a character!
ReplyDeleteFrank Sinatra
ReplyDeleteOh, also, Vincent Price was in a movie called The Whales of August.
ReplyDeleteErrol Flynn... 3 Wives & 4 Kids. Movie Star Handsome and born in 1909. Late in his career he made a movie called "Cruise of the Zaca" (1952) Next part is copied from IMDB- Storyline
ReplyDeleteFrom his Hollywood home, Errol Flynn copters to La Jolla's Scripps Institution of Oceanography for a few days. Inspired by the sight of a pod of gray whales, Flynn, his father (an oceanographer), and Dr. Hubbs from Scripts take Flynn's schooner, the Zaca, for a specimen-collecting trip down the coast, through the Panama Canal, and on to a southern port in Jamaica. Flynn's wife Nora joins them; his dad, Hubbs, and John Decker, an artist, turn the Zaca into a floating research lab. The Flynns take a raft for a day trip upriver to a Jamaican waterfall. There's an evening of dancing, then it's back to the sea.
Richard Widmark or Vincent Price. Everyone asked about Price always had great things to say, including Scotty Bowers. The documentary on Scotty was great, wish it was longer! Loved the book
ReplyDeleteBurt Lancaster. Married, had a very close male friend. No other details.
ReplyDeleteVery classy actor with iconic screen moments.
When I got to the word 'campy' an image of Dr Phibes flashed into my mind, this blind fits Vincent to a tee. One of his movies was The Mad Magician so that gives us the 'slight of hand' clue. He was also a gourmet chef as well as an art expert.
ReplyDeleteScotty Bowers makes great sense as the younger man
ReplyDeleteErroll doesnt have a great rep, more into scads of younger girls than bi
I adore William Powell, but one son, and never heard bi
I hear ya on Gregory Peck, Scandi, lol!😍
I hope you're ok, TW! Take care!❤
Mentor/older guy sounds like George Sanders, but he was Russian-born, not Scandinavian.
ReplyDeleteVincent Price for the deceased gentleman.
ReplyDeleteIm going with Vincent Price as well.
ReplyDeleteScotty Bowers didn't go to Hollywood until he got out of the war mid 1945, not him.
ReplyDeleteErrol Flynn does not fit at all, not a 'second romantic lead or the first villain', not a few years into his career at the start of the war, he was a star from 1935 in Hollywood and starred in an Australian movie in the early 30's.
I read this as the young guy is Scandinavian, not the older sophisticate.
ReplyDeleteAlso Van Dyke is a Dutch name not Scandinavian in the least.
Well Vincent Price was born too late for this. 1911. Looking for someone born 1900 or earlier 1895.
ReplyDeleteAlso, both Price and Flynn did not spend time in NY. They both started on the stage in London in the 1930s and from there went directly to Hollywood. Flynn, a notorious drunk, was no gentleman. Early in his career he was accused of throwing a female stage manager down the stairs. Also, he was also born in Tasmania and this doesn’t say foreign born.
Tough one.
Scotty Bowers and Beach Dickerson
ReplyDeleteThere is a big clue in the Distinctive. Artistic. Stylish. Your wouldn't full stop (period) and capitalise a list like that unless the letters mean something.
ReplyDeleteDAS - ?!
...I'm going to think on it....
Errol Flynn for the older actor who lived his life his own way? The wives and dates match.
ReplyDeleteI met Vincent Price once in a restaurant down town. He had beautiful manners, I was fascinated by watching him eat. He probably thought I was hungry. He had beautiful eyes and when he smiled you just sort of fell into his dimples. Sigh... when Hollywood had class.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that comes close to fitting for the older gentleman who I can think of is Vincent Price. The younger man could be anybody, I don't see where it says he was famous. This is going to be a hard one to figure out.
ReplyDeleteIf it's the Scotty Bowers guess, I'm not 100% sure I would believe it.
I don't believe the younger man is Dick Van Dyke, but if it is, wouldn't it be wonderful and such a great public service if he would openly talk about being bisexual in those days? It would be fascinating. Who or what could it really hurt at this point?
ReplyDeleteI always thought Vincent Price and Dick Van Dyke were beautiful men, and both under-rated as actors. It's a nice thought that it could be them.
I think it’s Vincent Price for the older man, but I’ll throw out Jimmy Stewart because he was so well loved, well mannered and lived a long tome and had a good career.
ReplyDeleteAll these guesses at George Sanders are way off- he did not have a whale of a time right up to the end; he had dementia, famously said he was bored with life, David Niven described him as having bouts of moroseness/depression and he eventually took his own life.
ReplyDeleteHe'd also have been described as foreign born.
And Jimmy Stewart was a leading man. The blind says he was 2nd romantic lead or the villain.
ReplyDeleteAnd VP's age fits perfectly- born 1911, therefore 28 at the start of WWII and "a few years older" than the 20yo ingenue of the blind.
ReplyDeleteIt can't be Flynn, Peck, Stewart, Olivier, Lancaster because all of these were romantic leads- not "2nd romantic lead".
ReplyDeleteDo people not read longer blinds in detail?
Walter Pidgeon for the older guy. My old man was in the HWood rackets and he said Pidgeon was the final arbiter for gay disputes within the industry. They couldn't "divorce" and split assets in a proper court of law so they all worked out a system where Wally was the most respected and therefore most trusted of this then criminal underworld of homos that entertained America for decades from the closet. That would make Bowers the stable boy.
ReplyDeleteOf course some of this blind's details don't quite fit, but then the committee that writes these blinds sometimes gets their edits mixed up with other blinds.
Vincent Price as Egghead is correct.
John Barrymore played Captain Ahab in Moby Dick(1930)
ReplyDeleteRe:the whale reference
Totally think this is meant to be Vincent Price and Scotty Bowers.
ReplyDeleteBowers was a marine before he went to Hollywood and this story suggests they met in New York, not CA, sometime after the start of the war. NYC was point of departure for many young men heading off to the war, and of course where many had leave as well. So all of that fits.
Whether it's true or not is another matter, but I'd certainly believe that Bowers has told the story this way. Which isn't saying much.
Substance D-- that is a super cool story about Walter Pidgeon and some of the inner workings of Old Hollywood! Thanks for adding that into the mix!
ReplyDeleteVincent Price fits best, just reading up on his background and he was a very well educated fellow hence the initial description.
ReplyDeleteCary Grant.
ReplyDeleteAgree that Rex Harrison also fits for the actor. In 1938/39:
ReplyDelete* Born in 1908, he would have been "slightly older" than a fellow just out of his teens
* He was a few years Into his movie career, and played villain in Continental Express
Looking at the other clues:
* Married six times, two children - "Sexy Rexy" spoke his mind and certainly lived life on his own terms (imdb)
* He was definitely distinctive and stylish - had a hat style named after him (imdb)
* Artistic, as well: his etchings can be found for sale online
* Whale of a good time - he was from Whales
* Sleight of hand - could refer to the fact that he "frequently wore a specific ring with a dark square-cut stone, on his little finger of his left hand. It appears in almost all of his films." (imdb)
Franchot Tone for the older man
ReplyDeleteIf not Vincent Price then I would suggest James Mason.
ReplyDeleteMason fits quite a few of the clues, but he'd be "foreign born", and he wasn't in the US at the start of, or even during, WWII. He went in ~1949.
ReplyDeletePlus -if you can believe the biographers- he didn't have a fabulous time of it for many years owing to the bitter relations he had with his first wife. In fact she allegedly continued making life hard for him even after they divorced and he remarried.
And Franchot Tone was often a romantic lead. The blind says 2nd. And a villain; I can't think of any time he played one of those. If he did, it's not what he was known for.
ReplyDeleteDavid Niven? He had four kids, and played campy roles in Pink Panther and Around the World in 80 Days, very stylish.
ReplyDeleteI had thought of George Sanders, but he committed suicide
@gauloise- I doubt it was Niven. He left Hollywood just as he was beginning to make a name for himself to join the army. The US joined the war in 1941 and by then he was already extremely busy fighting with the British army. And when he was home on leave, he was extremely busy making "quota quickies" for the British film industry to raise morale back home.
ReplyDeleteThe timing's all wrong for him.
@phoebe You make a good point about WW2 ruling out a lot of people. I was also thinking may Douglas Fairbanks Jr, but he also was away.
ReplyDeleteFound this interesting blog post by Vincent Price's child about coming out to Vincent and how for a while they searched for answer about Vincent's sexuality, Vincent seems like a really open minded, wonderful man, esp for his era.
ReplyDeletehttp://greatentertainersarchives.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-other-side-of-vincent-price.html