Today's Blind Items - They Knew
When the phone rang earlier this week, it was someone I hadn't spoken to in nearly a decade. Back when I first started writing the blog, I met this guy one night at The Improv. He was there watching some potential client who he thought sucked two minutes into the act. He told me as much even though we hadn't spoken before that moment. I laughed and told him I was headed to the front of the place because the drinks came faster and stronger when you were at the bar. He followed along. When he told me his name, I recognized the name and knew he had represented some really big names. The thing is though, he represented them when they were all child/teen actors who blew him off as they got older.
He had a knack for signing kids and that is how he made most of his money as a manager. He supplemented by trying to find comics who could play the older brother/sister in some of these kid sitcoms. Someone unknown, but funny is how he put it.
The guy is a straight shooter. No one has ever accused him of anything other than being greedy and trying to sign the most clients possible. He told me that especially at the age he was signing these kids, most would give up or their parents would give up. Most would only be cute for a bit and when the cute was gone, most likely was the career. He worked hard for everyone, but needed a lot of kids to make it work. He told me about this show where he once brought in the entire cast all by himself. One of the members of the cast he did not bring in was someone who is now an A lister. Probably permanent to be honest with you.
The reason he didn't being her in was because her parents seemed liked they were more interested in selling her off to older men. They just assumed, even though she had not even reached 10 that he would want to spend some time "alone" with her. Umm, no he wouldn't. Right then he walked out.
That night and he I spoke, that is where he left it. We never spoke about the subject again in the few times we ran into each other since then. Like I said though, that last time we ran into each other or spoke was about a decade ago. I was somehow on his e-mail list where he scouted for talent and talked about opportunities or parties and successes. It was kind of like a Christmas letter, I got once a month.
When we spoke this week, he said he had a premonition he was going to die and was trying to say goodbye to everyone just in case. He mentioned something about that permanent A lister because of a photo that was making the rounds and we talked about what had preceded that and then he told me again about the parents but then he went on. He said when that show ended, it kind of looked like the career might end and all that easy money that had been flowing the way of the parents. The parents wanted the easy money to continue, so basically pimped out their kid to any producer or casting director who would give her a shot. This went on for years until the A lister did get the break. The parents didn't care about the cost to their kid, they were lining their wallets and when someone else close to them had the chance, they talked themselves into doing it all over again. They knew exactly who did what to whom and they didn't care because it was money that they cared about it. Oh, and yes, the mom in the family offered herself up to the producers and casting directors who didn't want to molest a child.
He had a knack for signing kids and that is how he made most of his money as a manager. He supplemented by trying to find comics who could play the older brother/sister in some of these kid sitcoms. Someone unknown, but funny is how he put it.
The guy is a straight shooter. No one has ever accused him of anything other than being greedy and trying to sign the most clients possible. He told me that especially at the age he was signing these kids, most would give up or their parents would give up. Most would only be cute for a bit and when the cute was gone, most likely was the career. He worked hard for everyone, but needed a lot of kids to make it work. He told me about this show where he once brought in the entire cast all by himself. One of the members of the cast he did not bring in was someone who is now an A lister. Probably permanent to be honest with you.
The reason he didn't being her in was because her parents seemed liked they were more interested in selling her off to older men. They just assumed, even though she had not even reached 10 that he would want to spend some time "alone" with her. Umm, no he wouldn't. Right then he walked out.
That night and he I spoke, that is where he left it. We never spoke about the subject again in the few times we ran into each other since then. Like I said though, that last time we ran into each other or spoke was about a decade ago. I was somehow on his e-mail list where he scouted for talent and talked about opportunities or parties and successes. It was kind of like a Christmas letter, I got once a month.
When we spoke this week, he said he had a premonition he was going to die and was trying to say goodbye to everyone just in case. He mentioned something about that permanent A lister because of a photo that was making the rounds and we talked about what had preceded that and then he told me again about the parents but then he went on. He said when that show ended, it kind of looked like the career might end and all that easy money that had been flowing the way of the parents. The parents wanted the easy money to continue, so basically pimped out their kid to any producer or casting director who would give her a shot. This went on for years until the A lister did get the break. The parents didn't care about the cost to their kid, they were lining their wallets and when someone else close to them had the chance, they talked themselves into doing it all over again. They knew exactly who did what to whom and they didn't care because it was money that they cared about it. Oh, and yes, the mom in the family offered herself up to the producers and casting directors who didn't want to molest a child.
And everyone just looks the other way.
ReplyDeleteJessica Simpson-Mickey Mouse Club
ReplyDeleteTanya Tucker started really young she could be considered permanent A if we are talking about someone from the 70s becoming famous. Or if not maybe LeeAnn Rimes but she should never have this rating.
ReplyDeleteBut MMC churned a handful of successful adults as well. This blind makes it seem like everyone on this show ended up going nowhere except for the subject.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJodi Foster. Didn't get her big break until she was 12, she played a child prostitute in Taxi Driver.
ReplyDeleteI believe Brandy was a single mother.
DeleteAnd the only permanent A lister of the MMC would be Britney Spears per Enty
ReplyDeleteWhat’s the photo (and he’ll no I don’t want to see it.) it seems like s mysterious piece of info.
ReplyDeleteAguilera could be as well.
ReplyDeleteIf based on past successes
Britney Spears would work, Jamie Lynn being the "someone else close to them" where they repeated what had happened with Britney.
ReplyDeleteIs there a Brit photo going around?
Photo could be Kenzo ad? Lots of tabloid rags wrote and hyped it?
Deletehttps://hollywoodlife.com/2018/03/20/britney-spears-kenzo-ad-pics-photos/
DeleteThis photo is what I was guessing
This has me very very concerned for the manager (no idea who he is).
ReplyDeleteI am sad that all of his good clients ditched him once they grew up. I didn't think that the job would change all that much when they become adults but as I've not worked in that branch of entertainment or role in the business, for all I know that is 'standard operating practice', 'customary' in that industry.
The A lister and her parents have me shaking my head. How could the child ever know if her actual talents at entertainment ever got her a job? How could parents do that to a kid?
I write this on what would have been my father's 78th birthday. it is his 3rd such birthday I have observed since he passed from dementia (the day before Thanksgiving 2015). I am not at all sad anymore he's gone, I made my peace with that ages ago. I had my issues with both my parents, but I never had to worry that they saw me as little more than their means to get paid. I am exceedingly sad for all parties described in this blind.
🙏🏼 @VDOVault
DeleteJennifer Love Hewitt - Kids Incorporated
ReplyDeleteNot a permanent A-lister.
DeleteI think this is Britney, and totally explains why she went off the rails as badly as she did
Fergie was on KI
Delete"and when someone else close to them had the chance, they talked themselves into doing it all over again."
ReplyDeleteMaybe it is BS, with this referring to her younger sister Jamie Lynn as being the second chance to pimp out their kid for fame/riches?
"...he represented them when they were all child/teen actors who blew him off as they got older."
ReplyDeleteSlightly unfortunate wording there, considering the context.
Fergie was also on Kids Inc
ReplyDeleteWild guess here...
ReplyDeleteAlyssa Milano and the cast being Who's The Boss?
She was 10 when that show started.
She did have an actor brother, Corey Milano.
DeleteNot Jodi Foster. Her dad was not in the picture so "parents" doesn't fit. She has also always been very vocal about how great her mom was and she's taken the Lohans to task for how they've failed to parent their kids.
ReplyDeleteEnty wouldn’t say Jodi Foster is “probably” permanent A list. Everyone knows she has been, for a while now.
ReplyDeleteerr nevermind - missed that last part about the second chance.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I would guess Lindsay if she had ever been in a television show with a lot of kids before she was in The Parent Trap.
ReplyDeleteThanks friends, I retract my Jodi Foster guess. Are Britney, Xtina, Milano etc PERMANENT A list though? I guess so. I was thinking someone older and more established.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa for sure. But I highly doubt this is her. She seems well balanced and denies she went through anything.
DeleteJodie was already established as a child actor before Taxi driver. She was on Tom Sawyer with Jodi Whitakher and lots of other shows. She was really popular @chug choo choo
Delete@totaj Alyssa milano A list? And, well balanced? She tweeted that she was, "crying, in the fetal position while wearing a tiara," basically, bc trump exists. Meanwhile, this coming from the girl who went $5MIL over budget on her house addition! I would not call either, "well balanced." (Not to be an arse) However, I too, don't believe this is her.
DeleteWasn't BS in the news recently about her dad releasing the conservator-ship and handing her back her finances?
ReplyDeleteI found this photo on instagram from BS's bf recently.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/04/04/britney-spears-boyfriend-sam-asghari-says-women-crush-wednesday-is-everyday-in-sweet-post.html
Lindsay Lohan? and her sister?
ReplyDeleteI think Montana got it with Matt Casella being the manager, he rejected Britney at first for MMC and sent her away because she was 8.
ReplyDeleteMatt Casella is a casting director, not an agent though
Deleteoh shes not A list. once was, not now. n/m
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJessica Simpsons also tried out for MMC but didn't make it.
ReplyDeleteEnty suggests that the producer "did not bring in" (aka hire) the kid, but later says the kids parents were worried "when the show ended". It is unclear if the girl ended up getting hired anyways or if the child went to go on to be in another show.
I've heard some pretty terrible, dark rumors about things that went on behind the scenes at Mickey Mouse Club.
ReplyDeleteSo many celebs started as kid actors...
ReplyDeleteNatasha Lyon started way young.
BS & JLS
ReplyDeleteLeft field guess here: How about "Hey Dude". A Nickelodeon show from the 80s/90s that was about kids at a dude ranch. The only actress to go on to become famous was Christine Taylor (married Ben Stiller).
ReplyDeleteNot Christine . Performed with her when she was 14 Ish. Very nice,normal. Exceptionally pretty. Chatted a lot . Based out of her hometown still. Regional theatre, Burger King commercials. Not a pushy family and she actually seemed very sheltered. Disappointed to hear Ben was such an ass to her. I really liked her.
DeleteCould this be Miley, Noah and her parents? Didn't Hmmmm once allege that Tish was a terrible human being?
ReplyDelete+1
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DeleteNot saying this isn’t Britney, but Matt Cassella was a casting director and not an agent. He didn’t actually rep any of the actors on that show, just cast them and he hasn’t done much since.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder how much $$ Brit was actually pulling in during her two seasons of MMC. But by all accounts the Spears family was pretty poor so anything might have been huge.
There is some confusing language in the blind, but the man in the blind is a manager. (Not agent. )
ReplyDeleteI think what he is trying to say, is that these kids were cast on the show, and he "brought them" on to his management roster? It's possible they didn't have managers until they had a career to manage.
So Britney was cast, but he didn't want to work with her or her family, so he didn't sign to represent her as a manager.
To be different, Miley? She did that weird Easter photo shoot recently, acting like a sexual child, not unlike Madonna's "Sex" book photos.
ReplyDeletewouldnt they be considered celebrity offspring though too?
Delete+1 Lucy, I missed your comment.
ReplyDeletethe writer mentions 10 years ago and a decade ago twice, so it seems like we are looking at someone who was 10 or around 10 in 2008. so if this was a decade ago, then the kid was already an a lister in 2008, but was 10 years old when she first got cast (and I know this is an assumption)- I think that takes Jodie, britney, Xtina Lindsey, Amanda out of the loop
ReplyDeleteI am confused about the timeline. The initial meeting was a decade ago, and it sounds like at that time he was repping people on the current crop of Disney shows. I know that a lot of those (Wizards, Hannah Montana etc) used comic adult actors as adults on those shows. The celeb in question is “now” a probably a perm a lister so maybe wouldn’t have been at the discussion. It’s hard to know if the show with the large group of kids and the a lister he passed on was around that same time ( a decade ago) or earlier in his career.
DeleteGuessing Miley again, and Howard Meltzer for Enty's friend the casting director. He did most of the casting on the show but Miley was brought in by Catherine Stroud. Tish seems the type to do whatever it takes, the family's notorious for their hyper-sexual behavior, and there's a younger sister, Noah, that they surgically modified to try to be as pretty as possible.
ReplyDeleteI struggle with Miley being the guess because I doubt her parents were that desperate. Her dad was the biggest star in America at the time.
ReplyDeleteNot to stalk you, but he definitely wasn't the biggest star in America at that time, and probably never was. He had a hit, and mostly existed to only country folk. He was joked about by coasters (east and west city folk).
DeleteHonestly, imo, Miley is a great guess. Her mom comes off as such a vampire. Thirsty for that moolah, with fame a welcomed plus.
What are you talking about? Billy Ray Cyrus was a one hit wonder with a song no one took seriously in 1992. Even in the Midwest, he was a laughing stock! By the time Hannah Montana came out almost a decade and a half later, there’s no way billy Ray was the biggest star in America. He was a washed up joke by 2006. I don’t know if they are the answer to the blind but they certainly could have been desperate enough by then.
DeleteHow are these parents not in jail?
ReplyDeleteEven a special place in hell would be too good for them.
Lynne Spears... As the mom who prostitutes her daughters.. She also wanted to sleep with Federline.. Shameless
ReplyDeleteI say Britney or Miley. Either way, this story is just sad.
ReplyDeleteThe piece does not say that the manager was first met ten years ago, but that the date of the initial meeting at the Improv was left unclear. The last time the manager was met in person was a decade ago.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this refers to the Spears girls, but the fact that there are so many names being tossed out around this blind item is telling and terrible. What a wasteland it is out there.
Hilary & Haley Duff? Though calling Hilary A list might be a stretch.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHayden Panetierre? She has a younger brother who had acted and shitty parents.
ReplyDelete"At age eight, Spears and her mother Lynne traveled to Atlanta to audition for the 1990s revival of The Mickey Mouse Club. Casting director Matt Casella rejected her for being too young to join the series at the time."
ReplyDeleteBut Casella is quoted as hooking Lynn Spears up with an Agent in New York and then cast her two years later when she was old enough. Still might be Brit but I don’t think the rejected at age 8 is the clincher here.
DeleteMaybe he steered her towards an agent without a penis on purpose? Who knows but I still think their family fits best... unfortunately.
DeleteExcellent point.
DeleteMaybe Selena or Demi from Barney just to be different
ReplyDeleteI know people who were involved in Barney & Friends. I can assure you that no casting couch was used on that show. BUT apparently Demi had a **very agressive** stage mom, and Demi was an anxious wreck even back then.
DeleteMiley Cyrus.
ReplyDeleteWhile Britney has been sexualized from an early age,
She has come nowhere near Miley's degradation and debauchery.
If my child was behaving the way Miley is behaving illustrated in the depravity at the link below,
I would rip her off the stage and commit her to a mental/rehab facility no matter her age.
The only way a parent would not intervene? MONEY and they don't care and they are just as sick.
Miley Wearing a Prosthetic Penis
https://hollywoodlife.com/2015/11/20/miley-cyrus-penis-boobs-concert-tour-looks-pics/
I don't know much about Britney's Mom,
but Tish Cyrus does seem more like a Prostitution Whore.
Billy Ray Cyrus’ net worth is 20 mil. Reread the last couple of paragraphs. These people aren’t uber wealthy in the blind.
DeleteI agree. Word for word, with the added memory of the guy from flaming lips shooting a hose out from between her legs, during an MTV awards show, and her parents applauding away. I would've been arrested for assault on the flaming lips guy, of it were one of mine.
DeleteAs for the $20MIL, that to me, us, that would be a GOLDMINE. To people spending $2.5MIL a year, that, "ain't gonna," work. Tish could have a good 40yrs more. That means she's going to need $100MIL. Add onto that, providing for her other kids, relatives, etc., the money is fleeting. For some, greed knows no bounds.
Though I must say, the Hayden panettier (sp?) mentioned above, is another good guess.
Miley's Disturbing Photo Album
ReplyDeletehttps://hollywoodlife.com/pics/miley-cyrus-dead-petz-tour-outfits-pics/#!21/miley-cyrus-1-10
Britney is the fit here, the blind is angled directly at her.
ReplyDeleteIf it isn't her then one of Enty's aliases or a Himmmm should jump in with some hint or insight to steer us in the right direction, it's wrong to label the wrong parents with this kind of depravity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears#1981%E2%80%931997:_Early_life_and_career_beginnings
@yikes. Ben was and is a dick, high strung way too serious type A type. I have no doubt Christine is nice but also heard from a very reputable source (I work in the business) that she is VERY sexually liberated (my term. The term used ABOUT her was actually freaky and 'out there') so she could fit the profile although her parents, background, as you pointed out may not.
ReplyDeleteWow. Got out of the business at 23 and I only keep up with my East Coast theatre friends. Super surprised but I guess maybe I shouldn’t be. Freak.Wow.
ReplyDeleteIf the producer turned down the mom, she offered up the dad, then the family dog, cat and parakeet. Whatever it takes to book the part.
ReplyDeleteHow do you think Woody the Woodpecker, Tom and Jerry got into showbusiness?
DeleteAgree with the Britney comments.
ReplyDeleteThe poor woman looks dead in the eyes. She might not need all the pills being shoved down her throat.
From the way I read the blind, another casting agent brought the girl onto the show. Britney fits that part.
I'm not so sure that we should rule out Miley Cyrus...
ReplyDeleteconsider these NSFW photos.
Miley Cyrus lets fans finger her VAGINA during a concert
https://tinyurl.com/ybgx3dae
@Mad Hominem
DeleteYeah. Pics & video all over the internet too. Miley is severely disturbed.
Remember the Billy ray Cyrus interview (I believe is was for rolling stone. It was when he went AWOL from Hollywood, went back to his TN ranch, and he was pictured with that huge box of tacos from taco bell)? He said something to the effect of, that they sold their daughter to devils. Devils have her, and to pray for her.
DeleteHe was in the process of filing for divorce from Tish, because of this too. Then, next thing you know, he is in CA meeting Tish for lunch (w pap shots, of course, and, I remember this bc I used to love reading dlisted). Now, the divorce is off, and this new, Francis farmer'esq BRC has emerged.
Wow. The more and more I think about it, it really seems to fit for Miley and Tish.
This is Britney. And sad AF. May these parents and all the abusers burn in hellish hell.
ReplyDeleteOnly been able to check in on this site occassionally today, buuuuuttt.. Several months ago there was a blind that seemed to indicate that Britney's virginity was taken by Justin Timberlake in a rape. If she was passed around at a younger age, than that couldn't happen-- she would already not be a virgin. If its Brit, one blind contradicts another. Just sayin'
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Melvin!
Deletethere is no medical state called “virgin.” you’re a virgin until you consent to sex. period.
DeleteWouldn't be the first time the blinds have contradicted each other.
DeleteEnty can't decide whether Selena got a kidney or not, for one.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteCheese for Dinner: +1000!
DeleteI can buy the Cyrus’s wanting the money BUT the blind says that it looked like her career might end after the show and it took a couple of years until she got a break. That doesn’t make sense for Miley. She left Hannah Montana a recording star already. Unless there is some other guess that no one has thought of yet, this does seem more like Britney
ReplyDeleteMaybe it really is milano? What did she do after who's the boss? That awful movie w Reese witherspoon, I think poison Ivy 2, then she landed Charmed. And, (shamefully), I can remember reading one of those mags, like sassy, or something like it, where she, AM, retold a story about how her brother came across naked pics of her online. Hmm. She was so goody goody, but had naked pics? I was a terror and there aren't any naked pics of me online (that I know of).
DeleteI'm just having a hard time thinking this is BS bc if so, wouldn't her parents have made her sister's pregnancy, "disappear?" More moolah to be made by keeping her in the game, as opposed to basically folding. IDK.
The "naked pictures" of Alyssa online were screen caps from the movie Embrace of the Vampire. That was early days of celeb nude pics online, which she didn't know would be a thing when she made the movie. She successfully sued some sites that posted them. What innocent times those were.
DeleteDrew Barrymore and ET??
ReplyDeleteClues:
ReplyDelete1. (Permanent) A list actress
2. Was cast around age 10 in a show with other child performers, no less than 10 years ago and probably more.
When show ended, she was not yet huge star and she bounced around doing other parts until hit it big which was "years"
3. Has another, probably younger relative who also acted as a child, and started at least 2 yrs after her. May be a brother or sister. Relation is unclear.
4. Mom is a ho
5. Both parents involved, at least in beginning
6. Has viral photo making rounds in few weeks
7. There may be some background to the photo "we talked about what had preceded that"
this is 100% britney. the photo that’s making the rounds is the picture of her trying to smash a car window with an umbrella. people have been posting it on social media saying it’s emma gonzalez smashing the window of pro-gun people at the march for life. “what had
ReplyDeletepreceded” the picture is brit’s total mental breakdown.
@cheese for Dinner
DeleteOh yes! I saw that and it fits AND explains what Enty means
yeah, that’s what gave it away for me ... the reference to what preceded the pic.
Deletehere’s more about the meme
ReplyDeletewelp that didn’t work. here it is: www.dailydot.com/unclick/britney-spears-meme-parkland-trolls/
DeleteLarry Rudolph is a common name associated with Spears, Cyrus, and Simpson. After Mickey Mouse, Spears was being scouted by Lou Pearlman for a girl group and Mama Spears was involved in that. Rudolph is also involved with Robin Antin and the Pussycat Dolls (alleged hiding in plain sight escort agency) Rapey Dr. Luke is also a bestie of his. One shudders. The fame game for kids is a meat grinder, sexually and mentally.
ReplyDeleteI wonder about the backstories of many other young phenoms. 90120, Saved by the Bell, Growing Pains, The Brat Pack and associated actors, E. Estevez, Kristy McNichol, Matt Dillon (!!), Jamie Gertz, Little House on the Prairie, After school specials, Freaks and Geeks, One Day at a Time. We know the blinds allegedly about Happy Days, Mr. Belvedere, My Two Dads, Different Strokes, Full House, Wonder Years, Doogie and his association with that creepy Magician guy, Rocky Road, Charles in Charge, Kids, Inc., all the rumoured Nickelodeon and Disney horrors.
By the way-I've tried to post this 3x and it keeps getting deleted. ???
Maybe BS crashed when she found out the same was happening to her sister? Would that timeline fit?
ReplyDelete@cheesefordinner Completely agree - the umbrella meltdown picture is everywhere again, which reminds everyone of the extent of her breakdown. In the light of #metoo it’s bound to bring up questions of what really contributed to it. Or - and here’s a stretch - it’s the anonymous bar photo Enty posted the other day and Britney is the second person.
ReplyDeleteYou convinced me too, Cheese for Dinner. The biggest clue being "what had preceded" the famous photo.
ReplyDeleteHere's a timeline: Britney's umbrella pap meltdown photo taken on Feb. 21, 2007.
Jamie Lynn Spears appeared on Zoey 101 from 2005-08.
Jamie Lynn's baby born June 19, 2008 (so Britney's meltdown precedes the pregnancy but not necessarily the beginning of Jamie's sexual abuse).
Jamie Spears, the father, takes conservatorship of Britney's affairs in 2007 and asks that the court seal all documents. This not only protects Britney's privacy but also any mention of Jamie or Lynne Spear's involvement in the girls' careers that could be seen as neglect or child endangerment.
Enty blinds recently about the parents not wanting to end Britney's conservatorship.
this timeline makes so much sense.
DeleteI'm ok with a complete ban on Hollywood. No more new movies, tv shows, music, etc. And burn every single vhs tape, dvd, bluray, cd and cassette that's ever been made. Burn it all down.
ReplyDeleteAny chance it could be Amanda Bynes? She went from "All That" to "The Amanda Show", then that one with Jennie Garth, and then had a pretty steady movie career before her breakdown. Can't remember how ENTY normally refers to AB, but for a generation, she'll always have A-list name recognition.
ReplyDeleteNot Britney or JLH. You guys are missing a BIG clue here. The blind states that the kid was pimped around to casting directors for parts. After MMC, Britney was basically never onscreen until the movie Crossroads.
ReplyDeleteJLH is known for having a good relationship with her mother. Jerry Ferrara has a good story about how well-adjusted and family-oriented she was when she did some good deeds for him when he first moved to LA.
What abou the Fanning girls? Is it possible?
ReplyDeleteWhat you need to realise about MKULTRA mind control, is that its most effective if the father is a pedophile and is happy to rape the child from the age of 18/months onward.
ReplyDeleteGang rape, torture, ritual satanic abuse is a normal part of MKULTRA.
Sodomy at a young age causes neurological damage, making the child easier to program.
The parents of these children rape, torture and sell them from a very young age.
It doesn't just start with 8 year olds and movies.
Of course they go mental.