This height challenged A list comic/actor is scrambling to make sure all of his ghostwriters have NDA's signed. Much like that A+ list singer, he likes everyone to think he does everything himself.
Anybody who spent 10 seconds in San Francisco, Boston, or any other Comedy towns during the 80's knows Robin Williams stole much of his material from fellow comics--but at least he was funny, and gave us that and Movie magic...what has Kevin Hart ever given us ?
Kevin Hart is funny and has given us great stand-up shows. Robin Williams was a comedic genius, in my opinion, but as an entertainer in general. I can't recall ever seeing a full stand-up set of his. Pryor, Eddie, Chris Rock, Chappelle, Seinfeld are my top 5. There are other unquestionable greats like Carlin, Kaufman, Lenny Bruce, Joan Rivers,etc, but my 5 are based on who I saw the most of and enjoyed the most - many either were too early for my own timeline or just weren't as consistently prevalent in my circle (Pryor being he obv exception to the prevalent throughout my life rule)
How do people not realize comedians have writers? And why do some comedians pretend it's not so? Half the joke is delivery anyway. It's harder to tell a joke well, than to write it.
I honestly DID NOT REALISE THAT. Although I do know they steal material from each other (like Amy Scummer). Not to sound naïve, but it doesn't make logical sense?
I thought being a comedian meant selling a public persona/personality and the jokes were a reflection of that, and material tends to be personal?
Like, imagine if there was a stand-up comedian who compared Infinity Stones to Goop's Yoni Eggs (poking fun at fundamentalist science supremacy fanboys, while pointing out similar they really are). Wouldn't that reflect what kind of person the comedian is (okay, I know that's a TERRIBLE EXAMPLE and a type of comedy that's not very marketable as nobody would get the joke—because how many Marvel fanboys pay attention to what Goop does and vice versa, The point is: How many people pay attention to both Marvel and Goop simultaneously? You can't fake that). It's not like being an actor/actress where you'd benefit more from keeping your personal life private.
And you said "half of the joke is delivery", I just find it hard to understand how they'd deliver it properly if they didn't think it up themselves? Do the ghostwriters coach them?!
I think Kevin Hart is hilarious. Loved Eddie Murphy! I made meatballs for the first time the other day, for my toddler son. He hates veggies, so I hid peppers and onions. and sang "I got mcDoooonaaaalds"
I liked Tambourine and finding out Bo Burnham directed it was cool. It seems like Rock is still doing his same hilarious comedy, but making sure he appeals to the younger fans as well. As for ghostwriters - isn't that in basically every industry where writing is a main component? Singers, rappers, authors, Wendy Williams appearance, etc.
Talking about best comedians, I cannot fathom why Seinfeld, a guy who has recycled the same stale jokes all his life and was made into an icon by the genius of Larry David, should figure next to giants like Pryor or Carlin.
I know it's weird to talk about rope in the house of the hanged (Italian wisdom), but I would value someone like Louis C K much, much more than Seinfeld. In his classic period (2010-2015 I would say) he has established a prolific style of weirdness and openness and honesty (yes that too, in comedic terms) that Seinfeld would only dream of having.
Seinfeld recently said: everyone will always look at "his friend" CK and think of his public masturbation. Now, that's a petty remark.
The show Seinfeld itself was amazing due to a lot of extremely talented people. Larry David obviously a huge part of it's success. But the actors, and their portrayal of the characters, is just as important to what made the show so big and loved. That's in defense of the show itself and Seinfeld no becoming an icon merely due to Larry David. However, I can't speak to the recycling of material since I wasn't as familiar with Carlin's sets. But I do think there is a difference between respectfully reworking and updating another solid joke from a different comedian, and stealing material to pass off as your own. Like The Aristocrats - so many amazing comedians have put their own spin on it, but it's still acknowledged as reworking a previous, and very well known, joke.
@Don Klieballs - Carlin a questionable great? Where have you been? Every comic, including Jerry would list Carlin, Pryor, and Bill Hicks within the top 5 comics that ever lived. Even Pryor said he was always in awe of Carlin. What you enjoy you enjoy, but greatness is another thing. Hart will be a footnote, as relevant as Dane Cook.
@Don Kieballs: I'm talking about Seinfeld the standup comedian, not about the TV show which was obviously a great TV show. Except without the TV show where would Seinfeld be? I don't see him as having defined anything in the art of standup comedy, except having been a great, commendable partisan and highly respectable representative of its rules of integrity and fairness. I also like his act being "clean", that's really rare. But that's about it.
ancoranon - I understand what you're saying. I was only listing and explaining my own favorites and why certain names are there and certain ones aren't. I liked his comedy, and, to me, it was fresh and simple comedy that I found funny. I respect others have their own favorites and opinions on other's rankings. The fact there are so many different comics to choose from, based on your own humor and familiarity, is wonderful.
In the annals of shameless joke thieves, let us not forget the corrosive and repellent Amy Schumer.
Even if Kevin Hart, who I could take or leave, whatever, is paying for his jokes, that's hella different than stealing material.
Agree Seinfeld's standup is over-rated, but the TV show was and remains amazing (until the final season, after Larry David left).
Bill Hicks, George Carlin, Richard Pryor is a good top triumvirate. More recently, I like Bill Burr, who definitely owed a lot of his schtick to guys who came before him. Won't deny that Louis CK was genius at times, but even by the end of that last series, before he was disgraced, I was getting over him.
It's funny, I remember laughing so hard at Eddie Murphy when I was young but i tried watching "Raw" a few months ago and was shocked at how offensive it was. Times change and so did I, I guess.
I am partial to classic Albert Brooks routines. But I just love that dry humor. I recently saw Jim Gaffigan and he was fantastic. I was happy to hear new material, don't care if he had a team worrying it.
On the other end of the scale, we have Janeane Garofalo, who I used to love. But around 2001/2002 I saw her on a tour and she was total shit. She was drunk, not into it AT ALL, and recycling jokes from 10+ years back. Not topical or relevant to the audience. At least tailor a joke or two to the crowd. No, the old joke about migrant workers in the carpool lane was not relevant to a Detroit audience, who had neither carpool lanes or migrant workers. But had plenty of 1st/2nd gen Mexicans who wouldn't have been thrilled by that representation. That long ago and I'm still pissed. Opening act was Zach Galifinakis, who was just starting out and really fresh and funny. He saved what would have been a terrible night.
Watch 48 Hours. I just watched it again and it was so awkward seeing the "racist" jokes now. I put the quotes because I realize it was meant to resemble the current moment in time, but it didn't age well. And I like edgy, almost on the line of offensive jokes. When they are done in context and not in a hateful way, I love being included in the biting jokes that every other group of people get to enjoy. I know I'm in a minority among my community who do see the value in being included in culture, even if it's in the form of jokes that make you cringe while trying your hardest not to laugh out loud.
*Back to Seinfeld, He's going to stay on my list, even if it's mostly due to my love of the show more than his own sets. I'll admit to that bias and technically inaccurate ranking, but those are the comics I think of first when considering who influenced me the most.
Amy Schumer's work with Josh Charles, particularly the satire of Friday Night Lights, is some of the most brilliant comedy I've seen in the past few years.
I don't know anything about what she is currently doing.
@DON - yeah sorry for the misread. Carlin, as told to a friend of mine who knew him - what makes a great comic is - a discernible point of view. Self revealing sub-text. Disregard or lack of concern for the audience. Emotional insight and relevant content layered with text that draws blood.
I'd say Pryor, Carlin, and Hicks fit that definition superbly.
Notice how the original writing and delivery, in nearly every case, is much better than Schumer's. She was apparently designed as a blond, retooled, younger Sarah Silverman, but wore out her welcome even faster.
Amy Schumer would be nobody if her cousin wasn't Chuck Schumer. America can't stand her. Bud Light's sales cratered so badly when she and Seth Rogan were made the spokespeople, they ended the campaign weeks early. Her past couple movies have been artistic and commercial failures.
It will be interesting to see how "I Feel Pretty" does. I saw a trailer for it last week, and people in the theater booed when she came on screen. It would be great if she, and her dishonest and dishonorable career, disappeared and never came back.
At first I thought the joke of the day was that you and I shared a common enemy. But then I remembered that I hate Amy Scummer because of the mean-spirited skit about being Kat-fished by a famous actor: https://youtu.be/BuZI9CeXow0
I will attempt to watch a full Robin Williams stand up set, but I'm not sure how log i'll last. His appearances on Carson, and really any other show, were always so spectacularly amazing and spontaneously random, I might have to watch it in segments just to allow myself to catch my breath. For someone like me who embraces his adhd, Williams was like magic. I am honestly going to look for some recordings of his sets.
Spider - I'm glad you understand what I meant. I know Carlin, and others, will always be considered the greats. I jealous I didn't get to experience their comedy - although, like the Williams sets, it's not like I can't find recordings and educate myself. Weirdly, I am very familiar with The Smothers Brothers, who were even earlier - but that's due to dad's 45's.
@Don Kieballs - for the past year or so on my iPad your picture looked like a freaky-eyed old codger Grandpa Mylar balloon. Wondered what statement you were making with that picture.
Then I wondered what the nationality or the origin was for the surname Kieballs. Never heard it before. Anyway, then I read the comments about your name.....put the two together......and laughed my ass off as that wasn’t how I’d pronounced it in my head. Had to come out to comment on Himmmm blind - saw the critter.
Since Chuck Schumer is distantly related to Amy, and he has not one thing to do with Hollywood or comedy clubs or TV shows, You would be wrong about that, DD.
What, can't help yourself in dreaming up another big conspiracy for that Outrage! addiction?
I can't believe in all this no one has mentioned Farley or early Sandler or Chevy Chase or Steve Martin. They all are miles beyond Seinfeld, Schumer, even Hicks and are in the Williams/Pryor class. Smh, these guys were the true greats of comedy.
*stomps off to watch Caddyshack for the 500th time*
@Hoen: Steve Martin? Adam Sandler? De gustibus non disputandum est, I guess but thanks no thanks.
@MzFortunate: How silly of you. I guess you're one of those who have never heard of respectable names such as Ben Dover Lou Skunt or Justin Heras and have to make a dirty joke out of everything.
Norm MacDonald, Dave Chapelle, Larry David. Distinct delivery, all of them. As for the blind Kevin Hart and that’s fine, I don’t expect most comics to be able to write a book.
kevin hart
ReplyDeleteDon’t most big comedians have writers/ghostwriters?
ReplyDeletehttp://m.tmz.com/#!article/2018/02/24/michael-blackson-kevin-hart-feud-beef-torrei-hart/
ReplyDeleteAnybody who spent 10 seconds in San Francisco, Boston, or any other Comedy towns during the 80's knows Robin Williams stole much of his material from fellow comics--but at least he was funny, and gave us that and Movie magic...what has Kevin Hart ever given us ?
ReplyDeleteRide Along 2
DeleteI like Kevin too. Robin is an icon who can do impressions and everything spot on. I like both...but Chappelle is my favorite and then Pryor.
ReplyDeleteKevin Hart is funny and has given us great stand-up shows. Robin Williams was a comedic genius, in my opinion, but as an entertainer in general. I can't recall ever seeing a full stand-up set of his.
ReplyDeletePryor, Eddie, Chris Rock, Chappelle, Seinfeld are my top 5. There are other unquestionable greats like Carlin, Kaufman, Lenny Bruce, Joan Rivers,etc, but my 5 are based on who I saw the most of and enjoyed the most - many either were too early for my own timeline or just weren't as consistently prevalent in my circle (Pryor being he obv exception to the prevalent throughout my life rule)
@Don if you’ve never seen a full Robin Williams stand up set, treat yourself to a watch of Weapons of Self Destruction.
DeleteAnd be careful not to choke on your popcorn or have anything that would be damaged by liquids in range of any spit-takes.
Yes, Joan Rivers and Phyliss Diller too. Their jokes were written for them too
DeleteYes most comics buy jokes from writers rarely write their own. It's not a secret and it's not unusual.
ReplyDeleteHow do people not realize comedians have writers? And why do some comedians pretend it's not so? Half the joke is delivery anyway. It's harder to tell a joke well, than to write it.
ReplyDeleteI honestly DID NOT REALISE THAT. Although I do know they steal material from each other (like Amy Scummer). Not to sound naïve, but it doesn't make logical sense?
DeleteI thought being a comedian meant selling a public persona/personality and the jokes were a reflection of that, and material tends to be personal?
Like, imagine if there was a stand-up comedian who compared Infinity Stones to Goop's Yoni Eggs (poking fun at fundamentalist science supremacy fanboys, while pointing out similar they really are). Wouldn't that reflect what kind of person the comedian is (okay, I know that's a TERRIBLE EXAMPLE and a type of comedy that's not very marketable as nobody would get the joke—because how many Marvel fanboys pay attention to what Goop does and vice versa, The point is: How many people pay attention to both Marvel and Goop simultaneously? You can't fake that). It's not like being an actor/actress where you'd benefit more from keeping your personal life private.
And you said "half of the joke is delivery", I just find it hard to understand how they'd deliver it properly if they didn't think it up themselves? Do the ghostwriters coach them?!
I believe Seinfeld writes most of his material as I read a story that mentioned and had photos of his yellow note pads with hand written jokes.
DeleteI think Kevin Hart is hilarious. Loved Eddie Murphy! I made meatballs for the first time the other day, for my toddler son. He hates veggies, so I hid peppers and onions. and sang "I got mcDoooonaaaalds"
ReplyDeleteI love him on "Real Husbands". 😂🤣
DeleteAlso, that is evil. If someone tried to serve me fake vegan meat, I would hunt them down and cannibalise them... 🥒
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKevin Hart and drake
ReplyDelete@Sara
ReplyDeleteNo shit. Chris Rock had a whole team of comedy writers back for his stand up. And every comedian has been ripping off Bill Hicks for decades.
I liked Tambourine and finding out Bo Burnham directed it was cool. It seems like Rock is still doing his same hilarious comedy, but making sure he appeals to the younger fans as well. As for ghostwriters - isn't that in basically every industry where writing is a main component? Singers, rappers, authors, Wendy Williams appearance, etc.
ReplyDeleteTalking about best comedians, I cannot fathom why Seinfeld, a guy who has recycled the same stale jokes all his life and was made into an icon by the genius of Larry David, should figure next to giants like Pryor or Carlin.
ReplyDeleteI know it's weird to talk about rope in the house of the hanged (Italian wisdom), but I would value someone like Louis C K much, much more than Seinfeld. In his classic period (2010-2015 I would say) he has established a prolific style of weirdness and openness and honesty (yes that too, in comedic terms) that Seinfeld would only dream of having.
Seinfeld recently said: everyone will always look at "his friend" CK and think of his public masturbation. Now, that's a petty remark.
BTW. My favorite standup comedians: Woody Allen, Richard Pryor, Steven Wright, Bill Hicks.
ReplyDeleteThe show Seinfeld itself was amazing due to a lot of extremely talented people. Larry David obviously a huge part of it's success. But the actors, and their portrayal of the characters, is just as important to what made the show so big and loved. That's in defense of the show itself and Seinfeld no becoming an icon merely due to Larry David. However, I can't speak to the recycling of material since I wasn't as familiar with Carlin's sets. But I do think there is a difference between respectfully reworking and updating another solid joke from a different comedian, and stealing material to pass off as your own. Like The Aristocrats - so many amazing comedians have put their own spin on it, but it's still acknowledged as reworking a previous, and very well known, joke.
ReplyDeleteKRAAAAAMEERRRRRR! 🚪 [Slides through apartment door like the Spanish Inquisition]
Delete@Don Klieballs - Carlin a questionable great? Where have you been? Every comic, including Jerry would list Carlin, Pryor, and Bill Hicks within the top 5 comics that ever lived. Even Pryor said he was always in awe of Carlin. What you enjoy you enjoy, but greatness is another thing. Hart will be a footnote, as relevant as Dane Cook.
ReplyDeleteLeaning towards Patton O. for some reason.
ReplyDelete@Don Kieballs: I'm talking about Seinfeld the standup comedian, not about the TV show which was obviously a great TV show. Except without the TV show where would Seinfeld be? I don't see him as having defined anything in the art of standup comedy, except having been a great, commendable partisan and highly respectable representative of its rules of integrity and fairness. I also like his act being "clean", that's really rare. But that's about it.
ReplyDeleteSpider - I said Carlin is an "unquestionable" great. I just wasn't fortunate to have seen much of his full sets.
ReplyDeleteYep, Pryor, Carlin and Hicks, probably in that order. Their material seemed limitless and that we only saw a piece of what they could do.
ReplyDeleteThe decline Seinfeld underwent after the departure of Larry David proves that David was the genius of the operation.
ancoranon - I understand what you're saying. I was only listing and explaining my own favorites and why certain names are there and certain ones aren't. I liked his comedy, and, to me, it was fresh and simple comedy that I found funny. I respect others have their own favorites and opinions on other's rankings. The fact there are so many different comics to choose from, based on your own humor and familiarity, is wonderful.
ReplyDeleteIn the annals of shameless joke thieves, let us not forget the corrosive and repellent Amy Schumer.
ReplyDeleteEven if Kevin Hart, who I could take or leave, whatever, is paying for his jokes, that's hella different than stealing material.
Agree Seinfeld's standup is over-rated, but the TV show was and remains amazing (until the final season, after Larry David left).
Bill Hicks, George Carlin, Richard Pryor is a good top triumvirate. More recently, I like Bill Burr, who definitely owed a lot of his schtick to guys who came before him. Won't deny that Louis CK was genius at times, but even by the end of that last series, before he was disgraced, I was getting over him.
It's funny, I remember laughing so hard at Eddie Murphy when I was young but i tried watching "Raw" a few months ago and was shocked at how offensive it was. Times change and so did I, I guess.
I am partial to classic Albert Brooks routines. But I just love that dry humor.
ReplyDeleteI recently saw Jim Gaffigan and he was fantastic. I was happy to hear new material, don't care if he had a team worrying it.
On the other end of the scale, we have Janeane Garofalo, who I used to love. But around 2001/2002 I saw her on a tour and she was total shit. She was drunk, not into it AT ALL, and recycling jokes from 10+ years back. Not topical or relevant to the audience. At least tailor a joke or two to the crowd. No, the old joke about migrant workers in the carpool lane was not relevant to a Detroit audience, who had neither carpool lanes or migrant workers. But had plenty of 1st/2nd gen Mexicans who wouldn't have been thrilled by that representation.
That long ago and I'm still pissed.
Opening act was Zach Galifinakis, who was just starting out and really fresh and funny. He saved what would have been a terrible night.
Watch 48 Hours. I just watched it again and it was so awkward seeing the "racist" jokes now. I put the quotes because I realize it was meant to resemble the current moment in time, but it didn't age well.
ReplyDeleteAnd I like edgy, almost on the line of offensive jokes. When they are done in context and not in a hateful way, I love being included in the biting jokes that every other group of people get to enjoy. I know I'm in a minority among my community who do see the value in being included in culture, even if it's in the form of jokes that make you cringe while trying your hardest not to laugh out loud.
*Back to Seinfeld, He's going to stay on my list, even if it's mostly due to my love of the show more than his own sets. I'll admit to that bias and technically inaccurate ranking, but those are the comics I think of first when considering who influenced me the most.
Amy Schumer's work with Josh Charles, particularly the satire of Friday Night Lights, is some of the most brilliant comedy I've seen in the past few years.
ReplyDeleteI don't know anything about what she is currently doing.
Tomatheia Cruise
ReplyDelete@DON - yeah sorry for the misread. Carlin, as told to a friend of mine who knew him - what makes a great comic is - a discernible point of view. Self revealing sub-text. Disregard or lack of concern for the audience. Emotional insight and relevant content layered with text that draws blood.
ReplyDeleteI'd say Pryor, Carlin, and Hicks fit that definition superbly.
No one else is even close.
Kevin at least might have paid those other comics unlike Robin
ReplyDeleteIf anyone who doubts Amy Schumer is a shameless and audacious thief of other comics' material, here is a 1/2-hour of jokes and skits she's stolen:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/65iwmd/amy_schumer_joke_stealing_compilation_all_examples/
Notice how the original writing and delivery, in nearly every case, is much better than Schumer's. She was apparently designed as a blond, retooled, younger Sarah Silverman, but wore out her welcome even faster.
Amy Schumer would be nobody if her cousin wasn't Chuck Schumer. America can't stand her. Bud Light's sales cratered so badly when she and Seth Rogan were made the spokespeople, they ended the campaign weeks early. Her past couple movies have been artistic and commercial failures.
It will be interesting to see how "I Feel Pretty" does. I saw a trailer for it last week, and people in the theater booed when she came on screen. It would be great if she, and her dishonest and dishonorable career, disappeared and never came back.
At first I thought the joke of the day was that you and I shared a common enemy. But then I remembered that I hate Amy Scummer because of the mean-spirited skit about being Kat-fished by a famous actor: https://youtu.be/BuZI9CeXow0
DeleteAnd now I think you're just being sly...
I will attempt to watch a full Robin Williams stand up set, but I'm not sure how log i'll last. His appearances on Carson, and really any other show, were always so spectacularly amazing and spontaneously random, I might have to watch it in segments just to allow myself to catch my breath. For someone like me who embraces his adhd, Williams was like magic. I am honestly going to look for some recordings of his sets.
ReplyDeleteSpider - I'm glad you understand what I meant. I know Carlin, and others, will always be considered the greats. I jealous I didn't get to experience their comedy - although, like the Williams sets, it's not like I can't find recordings and educate myself. Weirdly, I am very familiar with The Smothers Brothers, who were even earlier - but that's due to dad's 45's.
NDAs not NDA's. That's all.
ReplyDeletehttps://english.stackexchange.com/questions/55970/plurals-of-acronyms-letters-numbers-use-an-apostrophe-or-not
DeletePardon me everyone....I need to comment to....
ReplyDelete@Don Kieballs - for the past year or so on my iPad your picture looked like a freaky-eyed old codger Grandpa Mylar balloon. Wondered what statement you were making with that picture.
Then I wondered what the nationality or the origin was for the surname Kieballs. Never heard it before. Anyway, then I read the comments about your name.....put the two together......and laughed my ass off as that wasn’t how I’d pronounced it in my head. Had to come out to comment on Himmmm blind - saw the critter.
Hilarious.
I thought Tamborine was excruciatingly awful. Just not funny at all.
ReplyDeleteSince Chuck Schumer is distantly related to Amy, and he has not one thing to do with Hollywood or comedy clubs or TV shows, You would be wrong about that, DD.
ReplyDeleteWhat, can't help yourself in dreaming up another big conspiracy for that Outrage! addiction?
*Smiles a knowing smile* 🌹
DeleteFuck delivery: https://youtu.be/aJsaC08zAGE 😶
ReplyDeleteI can't believe in all this no one has mentioned Farley or early Sandler or Chevy Chase or Steve Martin. They all are miles beyond Seinfeld, Schumer, even Hicks and are in the Williams/Pryor class. Smh, these guys were the true greats of comedy.
ReplyDelete*stomps off to watch Caddyshack for the 500th time*
@Hoen: Steve Martin? Adam Sandler? De gustibus non disputandum est, I guess but thanks no thanks.
ReplyDelete@MzFortunate: How silly of you. I guess you're one of those who have never heard of respectable names such as Ben Dover Lou Skunt or Justin Heras and have to make a dirty joke out of everything.
Norm MacDonald, Dave Chapelle, Larry David. Distinct delivery, all of them.
ReplyDeleteAs for the blind Kevin Hart and that’s fine, I don’t expect most comics to be able to write a book.
Kevin Hart for the comic/ Beyonce for the a list singer with ghostwriters or maybe Drake, probably both lol
ReplyDeleteI actually saw bill hicks live back in the early 90's, he was like elvis on stage and on of the best live performers i ever witnessed.
ReplyDelete