Blind Item #13 - Truth.Will. Out. - A HImmmm Blind
Truth. Will. Out - A Himmmm Blind
This will hardly be a blind to those who've been here for years. But when you've known the truth all this time, and are no longer bound by the promises you made due to their impending exposure and someone's approval? You can start to tell others. It's not the crime that gets you. It's the cover up.
The night this actress (long time A lister) and her hubby (probably permanent A- lister just because of his television and movie history and name) got together with this other actor (permanent A- list mostly movie actor) was the epitome of tragic. Too much booze, too much drugs, too much bottled-up hostility. She was drunk and angry. She mocked him and threatened to cuckold him, including about something she caught him doing years before which caused their split. That alone would've destroyed his career and life.
The fight was epic. The guest really did leave for bed, though he heard it all happen. As did the worker on board. The hubby was so drunk and angry, he really didn't remember it all. But according to his memories, and those of the long-silent guest, this is what happened:
Just the two of them, yelling and shoving. She retreated indoors, he went after her. When she got back outside, she demanded to be taken home - already had her coat on. She said she would call her lawyer and he can stay behind. Since the house and money were hers, she'd get the kids too. She had it with him, his cheating, and his drinking and pouting. He wasn't going to let her go at all. He actually reached to grab her when she pulled away, slipped and fell.
He could've saved her right there.
That would've been easy and could've just been a spat. But he mocked her. She screamed, yelled, begged for help. He taunted her. The guest came to see what was happening and tried to help. The hubby told him she was just playing hysterics for attention - she could save herself he said. He escorted the guest back inside forcibly. She continued out there, cold, screaming - for several minutes. The worker had been yelling to her he'd help her. He banged on the hubby's door. He was told to go to bed and mind his damn business.
The three men argued. Then they realized - she wasn't screaming anymore. Hubby panicked, and they all went out to try and find her. She'd given up and was already gone. They said it happened so fast. Maybe in drunk time, but in reality? It was over 20 minutes. These three drunk men, very drunk and high. Nothing they did worked. The guest demanded to call for help or be taken home. The hubby threatened him, said he was part of it too. The hubby sat outside for hours, drinking heavily, crying. The scared, weak and stoned worker finally took him inside when he passed out.
When they awoke, they knew how deep of shit they were in. They tried to get their story straight. If one went down - they all would. The first call they placed was to wake up a legendary Hollywood attorney/fixer. He in turn called (permanent A+ list singer) who really was a friend to the actress. The hubby confessed all to him. It was the booze, the anger - he never thought she was in that much danger. He pleaded for mercy. That legendary singer/actor was angry, but he understood how it could happen.
The cover-up began instantly. There were tons of leaks in their story. But anytime a discrepancy popped up? The powers that be were reminded they were elected officials and stop digging because it won't bring her back. You have no idea how powerful (the A+ list singer) and his legal and illegal pals were in those days. They even had the White House, not to mention City Hall. No local yokels were gonna make waves. Besides, the hubby was so destroyed.
And he really was. He tried suicide many times. He confessed to her daughters, which nearly destroyed one of them. But they too realized that all this time later would not bring her back. But people knew the truth. They spoke. On the record. Even with varying degrees of murder or manslaughter, it's the cover up that'll get you. So no matter the final outcome of the case, even all this time, he doesn't have long to live naturally.
But that cover up? A lot of them are still around. That one long-silent guest? Not so silent. He too is up in age and cleared his conscience. Thing is - he did it in 1985. Yep. It's been on record since then. Way past time for this to come out. It's tragic for those young ladies now, but...Truth. Will. Out. Always.
This will hardly be a blind to those who've been here for years. But when you've known the truth all this time, and are no longer bound by the promises you made due to their impending exposure and someone's approval? You can start to tell others. It's not the crime that gets you. It's the cover up.
The night this actress (long time A lister) and her hubby (probably permanent A- lister just because of his television and movie history and name) got together with this other actor (permanent A- list mostly movie actor) was the epitome of tragic. Too much booze, too much drugs, too much bottled-up hostility. She was drunk and angry. She mocked him and threatened to cuckold him, including about something she caught him doing years before which caused their split. That alone would've destroyed his career and life.
The fight was epic. The guest really did leave for bed, though he heard it all happen. As did the worker on board. The hubby was so drunk and angry, he really didn't remember it all. But according to his memories, and those of the long-silent guest, this is what happened:
Just the two of them, yelling and shoving. She retreated indoors, he went after her. When she got back outside, she demanded to be taken home - already had her coat on. She said she would call her lawyer and he can stay behind. Since the house and money were hers, she'd get the kids too. She had it with him, his cheating, and his drinking and pouting. He wasn't going to let her go at all. He actually reached to grab her when she pulled away, slipped and fell.
He could've saved her right there.
That would've been easy and could've just been a spat. But he mocked her. She screamed, yelled, begged for help. He taunted her. The guest came to see what was happening and tried to help. The hubby told him she was just playing hysterics for attention - she could save herself he said. He escorted the guest back inside forcibly. She continued out there, cold, screaming - for several minutes. The worker had been yelling to her he'd help her. He banged on the hubby's door. He was told to go to bed and mind his damn business.
The three men argued. Then they realized - she wasn't screaming anymore. Hubby panicked, and they all went out to try and find her. She'd given up and was already gone. They said it happened so fast. Maybe in drunk time, but in reality? It was over 20 minutes. These three drunk men, very drunk and high. Nothing they did worked. The guest demanded to call for help or be taken home. The hubby threatened him, said he was part of it too. The hubby sat outside for hours, drinking heavily, crying. The scared, weak and stoned worker finally took him inside when he passed out.
When they awoke, they knew how deep of shit they were in. They tried to get their story straight. If one went down - they all would. The first call they placed was to wake up a legendary Hollywood attorney/fixer. He in turn called (permanent A+ list singer) who really was a friend to the actress. The hubby confessed all to him. It was the booze, the anger - he never thought she was in that much danger. He pleaded for mercy. That legendary singer/actor was angry, but he understood how it could happen.
The cover-up began instantly. There were tons of leaks in their story. But anytime a discrepancy popped up? The powers that be were reminded they were elected officials and stop digging because it won't bring her back. You have no idea how powerful (the A+ list singer) and his legal and illegal pals were in those days. They even had the White House, not to mention City Hall. No local yokels were gonna make waves. Besides, the hubby was so destroyed.
And he really was. He tried suicide many times. He confessed to her daughters, which nearly destroyed one of them. But they too realized that all this time later would not bring her back. But people knew the truth. They spoke. On the record. Even with varying degrees of murder or manslaughter, it's the cover up that'll get you. So no matter the final outcome of the case, even all this time, he doesn't have long to live naturally.
But that cover up? A lot of them are still around. That one long-silent guest? Not so silent. He too is up in age and cleared his conscience. Thing is - he did it in 1985. Yep. It's been on record since then. Way past time for this to come out. It's tragic for those young ladies now, but...Truth. Will. Out. Always.
Obviously RJW and Natalie Wood.
ReplyDeleteWagner / Wood / Walken
ReplyDeleteNatalie Wood Robert Wagner and Chris Walken
ReplyDeleteJesus, this one is easy, Wood, Wagner, Walken.
ReplyDeleteNatalie Wood of course
ReplyDeleteRobert Wagner/Natalie Wood/Christopher Walken
ReplyDeleteRobert Wagner, Natalie Wood & Christopher Walken.
ReplyDeleteYes we all know this, is someone going to spill now?
ReplyDeletePoor Natalie!
ReplyDeleteAnd Sinatra for the A+ singer.
ReplyDeleteBut who is the A+ singer who helped cover it up?
ReplyDeleteSounds like Sinatra
DeleteWell they said today that he is officially a person of interest in the reopened case so maybe?
ReplyDeleteHad a friend that always would say, alcohol is devil juice.
ReplyDeleteI just read today that Robert Wagner is now considered a person of interest in Natalie Woods death.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely Sinatra for the singer.
ReplyDeleteWell, we all know who the 3 parties are, that's for sure...can't imagine what it was like when Wagner confessed to the daughters....
ReplyDeleteWho is the singer?
ReplyDeleteSinatra
DeleteAll obvious, even the A+ singer. "Controlled the White House"? Reagan was president, Sinatra was tight with Nancy. So to speak.
ReplyDeleteBut Walken is on the record, all the way back in 1985? Where? To whom? The cops? A P.I.? A reporter who never printed it?
I haven't even read the blind yet, but I read the title like Christopher Walken.
ReplyDeleteYes we know who the players are but what I want to know is what did Natalie catch him doing years before that caused their split?!?! Did he pull a Vincente Minelli on her??!!?! " She mocked him and threatened to cuckold him, including about something she caught him doing years before which caused their split. That alone would've destroyed his career and life."
ReplyDeleteThe rumor is she caught him in bed with another man!
DeleteDoes anyone have a link to what Walken said in 1985?
ReplyDeleteW, W and W, as others have said, plus Sinatra for the singer with the connections both legal and illegal. God, I hope we’re actually going to see this go somewhere, after all these years.
ReplyDeleteNatalie likely caught RJ with another man.
ReplyDeleteJust like Judy caught Vincente which caused one of her many suicide attempts.
ReplyDeleteFunny but I recall my sister reading his autobiography and she told me he made this huge point of stating he was not gay or never had a homosexual experience which was quite the norm during the studio days back then. When a man "protests too much" it always pings my gaydar
Interesting that this story is back in the news again today with the cops saying that RW is now a person of interest in the investigation. Jeez...how many years has it been? And they are only NOW looking at him as a person of interest?
ReplyDelete@JohnDoe You’ve been quiet! We were starting to worry!
DeleteThis is the only thing o can find on what Walken said in 1985. Perhaps he confessed all to someone (as it sounded like he wanted to do) but was pressured to say this in public.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/still-waters-run-deep-the-drowning-of-film-star-natalie-wood-34941806.html
https://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/robert-wagner-gay-secret/
ReplyDeleteThe only other person on the boat besides Wood, Wagner, and Walken was the captain, Dennis Davern, so that was the worker. Apparently 48 Hours is doing a show on the case this month.
ReplyDeleteYes, hello John Doe, I started following a twitter feed that's very good...
ReplyDeleteSo essentially, Natalie's life was worth less than Wagner's salty tears? Ain't that a muthafckin b!tch!
ReplyDeleteWagner was never taken off the "persons of interest" list, so that's not a change. Probably getting attention because of the upcoming show.
ReplyDeleteThe water was cold. She was drunk. Of course she was going to die.
ReplyDeleteSinatra @Muckduck
ReplyDeleteSo the crime is that no one looked for her in the water after she vanished bc they were all too high and drunk?
ReplyDeleteAlso does anyone else here screen shot some blinds just in case they are not around to read one day? Like certain ones that leave your mouth hanging open for a while...
Just a tidbit of extra info ... Was in the airline industry and flew a lot. Sometimes sitting next to flight attendants flying standby to get to\from work. Back when first class was always available for Standby. Yes, that long ago.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, my favorite question for them was about what celebrities they had flown with, we're they nice, etc.
I will never forget this one ....
The flight attendant had a few interesting encounters
A few interesting encounters? Please elaborate!! My flights are always so boring!
DeleteBuzzfeed Unsolved did a great video on this.
ReplyDeleteIt's been a long time coming and all over the news. Will Natalie finally have justice?
ReplyDeleteCan they also expose Kirk Douglas before he dies? Please. I want him to go to his grave exposed and hated.
I didn't watch the Golden Globes bullshit, just the clips and when I saw CZJ lovingly speak and push Kirk Douglas I yelled out loud "Oh, Eff you Golden Globes!"
Not that I expected authenticity/sincerity or change from Hollywood.
They're all just waiting for our attention spans to move on to the next thing.
Don't think this time it's going to happen.
Thanks to CDAN for exposing these 'jerkoffs".
@ Cody --- I feel like you left a few sentences out of your post! Did the flight attendants know something about this particular "blind" item? Inquiring minds want to know!
ReplyDelete@Cody, please spill.....we’re all ears
ReplyDeleteSorry - Kindle froze ...
ReplyDeleteAfter sharing her stories she told me about how her husband was an LA Vice Cop. When he would get home at night he would always tell her about his day. But one night he came home white as a ghost and was visibly upset. The husband wouldn't talk.
The next morning the husband shared that he and his partner had seen a car parked illegally in a lot steaming up the windows. The cops thought it would be a couple of teenagers. When they knocked on the window they found out it was Natalie Wood and another woman.
Today, that seems like "whatever" but back then it was very upsetting for the cop to catch his celebrity crush with another woman.
My respect for Christopher Walken has returned because he spoke up long ago. Did the boat captain not immediately help Natalie because he was too high? Could it be they would need someone to pull them up and out of the water onto the boat? If that was the case he and Walken should not feel guilty. Wagner should.
ReplyDeleteI'd always heard Natalie had caught Wagner with more than one male lover. And some suspect Walken and Wagner were "together" that night. The trip had gotten kicked out of 2 or 3 bars earlier that night because they were drunk and high.
ReplyDelete@Cody, you need to finish your story!!!
ReplyDeleteWagner, Wood, Walken and Frank Sinatra.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like the worst charge would be manslaughter or negligent homicide, possibly applying in varying degrees to everyone there, correct?
ReplyDeleteDrugs are weird. One time I ate some mushrooms and one of our cats brought a teenie tiny dead snake into the house, literally the size of a worm. But it was so scary and weird that I had to call someone to get it out of the house bc I was too scared to touch it. I laugh about that bc, wtf.. any other time it would of been no big deal. This was not life or death, but I couldn’t imagine anything bigger then that happening, and being able to deal w it..
ReplyDeleteLOL @ Jess
ReplyDeleteIt's about F'ing time
ReplyDeleteI'm a little confused- she had her coat on and wanted to go home. How could that happen if they were on a boat?
ReplyDeleteAlso, the grammar mistakes in this post make my head hurt.
How did Wagner sleep at night? His poor daughter. Poor Natalie!
ReplyDeleteI saw Wagner at the Malibu Country Mart awhile back. He was so unrecognizable, I didn't notice him at first - super heavy, bloated, completely grey. If he weren't sitting with another celeb I wouldn't have looked right past him.
ReplyDelete@JohnDoe makes a good point.
ReplyDeleteWhy this? Why now? Another distraction from the pedophile ring.
Nobody's trying to "distract" anyone from a pedophile ring. Why the fuck would Enty/Himmmm do that. Stop trying to be the centre of attention all the damn time.
Delete+1
DeleteApparently Natalie divorced wagner the first time because she caught him in bed with another man (Finstead's book Natasha) and there's this tabloid article that there's a log stating that she walked in on Robert and Chris. That would explain the cuckolding/exposing of a secret: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303569/Did-Hollywood-star-Natalie-Wood-walk-husband-Robert-Wagner-Christopher-Walken-having-sex-night-drowned.html
ReplyDeleteNatalie and RJW were married twice. The first marrige she caught him having sex with a guy and left him. Thinking he and Walken were doing it when she walked in on them
ReplyDeleteThis is about William Shatner and Donald Trump isn't it? And Spielberg.
ReplyDelete(Am I doing this right?)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else remember "coroner to the stars" Thomas Noguchi...after this happened he would hold these creepy, gossipy press conferences with tons of speculation that went way beyond the autopsy results...the whole thing is odd
ReplyDeleteI grew up in the L.A. area, and Noguchi was always on TV. Total fame whore.
DeleteMartha, George, and Nick. Did Honey catch an Uber before the fight this time?
ReplyDelete@kregger Noguchi got every famous case while he was the LA ME. But he sensationalized all of them, speculated beyond what would be allowed today. He's not thought of well amongst medical examiners.
ReplyDeleteHow are they going to prosecute this without a reasonable doubt, and what charges will they get, manslaughter?
ReplyDeleteSeems like someone is trying to throw out distractions from other scandals, but all they're doing is chumming the water.
https://jezebel.com/robert-wagner-has-been-named-a-person-of-interest-in-th-1822624399
ReplyDeleteNot buying that grown men under the influence or not would ignore the pleas of any women because her husband told them to.
ReplyDeleteNatalie is in the water and screaming for help and these other guys (is it two or three?) just followed Wagner's orders to not save her?
BULLSHIT!
Hmmmm is piggybacking off the recent Wagner stories, that is all.
There were witnesses on nearby boats who heard a woman screaming for help. This blind is straight out of any article written about the night NW died.
DeleteIf he was caught with another man why did she take him back? It certainly sounds like he had no intention of saving her. With her fear of the sea he had to know she would drown. Her poor kids if they knew the truth.
ReplyDeleteI was just going to say that Ringo . Most they could have ever been charged with is manslaughter ...if that .
ReplyDeleteNothing is ever going to happen anyway .
Shouldn't it be "Truth will come out", not "Truth will out"? That just sounds weird. But it's written three times that way for some reason. Plus there are quite a few sentences where it seems there is a word or two missing. I wish they would proof read these posts before publishing because a lot of times the poor English just causes confusion.
ReplyDeleteIt's an odd sounding but intentional syntax. An old turn of phrase that comes from Shakespeare.
DeleteHe could also be inferring that the “truth will out” Wagner and Walken...
Delete@Barbara RiceHand, yes, I occasionally archive one of these pages.
ReplyDelete@Matt, the idiom really is "truth will out." I think it's Shakespeare.
I can totally see this scenario @plot. why are you so quick to dismiss it?
ReplyDeleteTheir daughter Courtney is a longtime heroin addict (the daughter mentioned)
ReplyDeletehttp://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/robert-wagner-person-interest-natalie-wood-death-52774524
ReplyDeleteYep, you have to wonder when people say shit like "won't bring them back", drop it, forget it, etc.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't get why people who *actually* feel destroyed by guilt won't own up to it like the man they portray they are.
In another blind Sinatra was a good guy protecting women... Surely Walken wasn't the one talkin', he should have just awkwardly danced his way out of Hollywood by now.
Ya, agree with all the comments. So Sad. I have such a big crush on Wagner.
ReplyDeleteAh, ok. Guess I've never heard it used before then.
ReplyDeleteThey were drinking and snorting coke, and "too much bottled-up hostility" suggests that there was a lot of bad blood between them. She mocked him and threatened to have sex with another man just to spite him. The 'something' that she mocked him about that she had caught him doing years before was catching him having sex with another man. Its not difficult to see how mockery in this context could invoke the type of rage that might cause a man to commit murder. After all, she was threatening his not just his career but also his manhood. But why was Natalie so mad on THAT particular night on the yacht? I'm not so sure that we will ever know the truth---unless Wagner confesses. But here is what I think really happened:
ReplyDeleteAs I understand it, both Walken and Wagner were already on the yacht. Natalie joined them later. But why was Walken there? I believe that Walken and Wagner were in a secret sexual relationship. I also believe that Walken and Natalie were also in a secret sexual relationship. Walken was her friend and co-star in a movie that they had recently done together. I also believe that neither Wagner nor Natalie knew that Walken was screwing both of them behind each other's back. She found out about it that night when she caught Wagner and Walken having sex together. And she went into a rage over it ...a woman scorned---twice! (Well, more than twice if the rumors are to be believed.)
Wood married Wagner twice. She married him the second time knowing that he is bisexual, but she perhaps believed that she could change him. Who knows? Maybe she was threatening to out both Wagner and Walken (who is also bisexual). Back in the day that type of scandal would have ended their careers instantly. Maybe neither of them really wanted her to survive the 'accident' after she began her insults and threats.
The real story is that Wagner beat her up before she was pushed overboard. Her body had injuries that were consistent with physical assault. But it was all covered up. At first, I thought that the lawyer/fixer might be Jerry Brown or Paul Ziffren. Ziffren in particular was the Wagners' attorney and personal friend and it was through him that Wagner made his statement about the incident to the police. But I feel certain that it was actually Sidney Korshak (friend of Ziffren, and fixer for anyone with lots of money and a scandal that needs to be squashed)---he was well known in Hollywood and Washington a a very reliable person to call for these kinds of jobs.
I was thinking that the A list singer/actor could be either Tony Curtis or Frank Sinatra, but I figure it more likely to be Sinatra since he was mixed up with the mob and had many important political connections (including Jerry Brown in California, and the Reagans in the White House throughout the entire 1980s). There was a plenty of circumstantial evidence to prosecute the case as murder, but it was never really investigated because of the cover up. Natalie died in 1981, and with all these high-profile figures putting pressure on the LA county cops every time they tried to re-open and investigate the case it got nowhere.
And yes, there were three men on board the yacht: Walken, Wagner, and Davern (the pilot). The case was re-opened about 7 years ago after the pilot got an attack of conscience and told the police that he had lied in his statement. He changed his statement to say that Woods and Wagner were in a big fight and that there was a struggle between them and she went overboard during the struggle. But again the case got nowhere. Maybe Wagner will confess and tell the truth this time.
I can understand how "mockery" can end up in violence and death, John. It sounds like playground-level stuff when we use the term "mockery", but really when adults mock each other, they can be crueler than children. Sounds more like "triggering" of sore points to me.
DeleteNope. You don’t get to kill someone because they mocked you. People argue all the time and you don’t get to beat up or push someone off a boat and then let them die.
DeleteThe last I saw him he was looking unwell and hawking some probably questionable financial product (reverse mortgages?) on one of those way up cable channels where they show the 70s sitcoms and Carson reruns (I watch these channels regularly - was anyone sober on Carson in the 70s?). Life insurance would have been more grimly appropriate.
ReplyDeleteThe boat captain has come out recently in a televised interview and stated that Wagner had something to do with Natalie's death. Wagner will go down finally.
ReplyDelete@plot,Hmmmm has been doing blinds regarding Natalie Wood for years,not just this,but the Kirk Douglas rape and other stories. Even worse case,it was assumed she was just upset,and they would come for her later. They were all extremely drunk, witnesses saw them earlier.
ReplyDeleteDennis Davern, the boat captain (and proclaimed friend to Wagner and, more so, Wood) has been talking and trying to profit off this story for years, but he's complicit in her death, too. None of them protected her. None of them reached out a hand or threw a preserver. None of them stepped up when it counted.
ReplyDeleteTruth. Will. “Out”
ReplyDeleteOut who????
Walken???
ReplyDelete(multi-month lurker, first time commenter) FWIW, "Truth will out" seems to be a deliberate comment on whether HImmmm (or Enty) considers this accidental. " ...murder cannot be hid long; a man's son may, but at the length truth will out."
ReplyDelete(And then of course there's the Britishism, "Murder will out.")
ReplyDeleteOkay, but why now? Did someone retire or die? Is there a deathbed confession? Yeah ... why now?
ReplyDelete@John Doe - I agree with your theory. I've always thought Natalie caught Wagner and Walken having sex on the boat and that was what provoked the fight that caused her death. If that's the case, I think Wagner will take that secret to his grave.
ReplyDeleteSadly, there is no law stating you have to help someone so legally they did nothing wrong. They covered it up because it would ruin their careers.
ReplyDelete"Does anyone else remember "coroner to the stars" Thomas Noguchi"
ReplyDeleteNoguchi was the coroner for RFK as well. He delivered an autopsy report gently pointing at deficiencies in the official story.
"I have never said that Sirhan Sirhan killed Robert Kennedy."
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/363445
Noguchi might be a swell guy intent on the truth - or, he might have accepted incentives after the RFK killing to tow the line on various cases and report what people wanted him to report, i.e. "It's another tricky one.. we better get our man Thomas in for this one [wink]". Long day so I don't have time to do my usual Google search on everything he' s done.
Inside Edition is doing a story tonight on RW/NW...
ReplyDeleteWhy is this a blind??? Why not just write a blog post on Natalie Wood?
ReplyDeleteLegal complications?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI remember when this happened and the totally odd thing about it was that it seemed that within 2 weeks tops, Jill St. John moved into RW's house that he had shared with NW. I remember thinking that it sure was quick...
ReplyDeleteHimmmmmm is playing a genius double-entendre pun on words here. Use of the term "Out" in the title is telling. Its not just about the truth coming out, its about two major Hollywood stars being outed as gay and also outed as complicit in murder.
ReplyDeleteI remember when this happened, they said she was trying to get on a dinghy in the middle of the night and fell in, no one knew she was out there.
ReplyDeleteIs that story gone now? Cause even then Wagner was clearly guilty. I think being convicted of homocide would be a relief to him.
I wondered if there would be something about RW and NW today given the news. Thanks Himmmm. I remember that too, Nutmeg, but I haven't seen that story lately.
ReplyDeleteWhat a sad life. Poor Natalie never had anyone to protect her.
ReplyDeleteI read in someones Biography, perhaps even Natalie's , that she was deathly afraid of the water because she almost drowned on set as a child and could barely dog paddle. If that is true then Wagner knew about it and basically let her drown.
ReplyDelete@John Doe - are you asking what Walken was doing on the yacht with Wagner and Wood? The official story at the time, if I recall correctly, was that Wood and Walken were filming “Brainstorm” at the time and had really hit it off, and that Wood had invited him to join them on the boat.
ReplyDeleteExtra tidbits: RW was engaged to Tina Sinatra at one point. Also, RDJ co-started with Natasha Gregson Wagner in 1998s Two Girls and a Guy. Hmmmm
ReplyDeleteI read that also, somewhere, that Natalie was deathly afraid of water. No way would she have gotten into a little boat, and tried to row to shore.
ReplyDeleteJust found the info, it was in a Natalie Biography.
ReplyDelete"From early childhood, Wood’s mother had filled her with a fear of “dark water” because a fortuneteller had prophesized that she would drown, and she transferred this and many other fears to her child.
When filming “The Green Promise” as a 10-year-old, Wood was terrified to play a scene in which she had to cross a bridge over raging water, a bridge that was rigged to collapse the moment she reached safety. Her mother assured her that it would be perfectly safe, but when she reached the midpoint of the bridge, it collapsed and she was thrown into the water, barely clinging to part of the bridge. Director William D. Russell yelled, “Keep the cameras rolling,” while the terrified child with a broken left wrist struggled in the water.
Her fear of water became such a phobia that friends and family recall she was afraid to have her hair washed and had recurring nightmares about drowning. And again, at the age of 14, because of a last-minute script change, she was given the choice of jumping off the back of a boat or losing her role in “The Star” with Bette Davis. She jumped and immediately became hysterical."
Nothing to do with this incident but Natalie always wore bangles in movies because the broken wrist which she suffered on "Green Promise" was badly set and the bone bulged out and had to be covered on film.
PART 1 of 2:
ReplyDelete@John Doe: The fixer's name you're searching for? That was an attorney named Mickey Rudin. BIG power attorney who also was a go-between. Lots of friends, associates, and alleged ties. From Vegas to D.C. he was juiced in. MANY scandals were squashed in those days due to his calls and payoffs and promises. It's how "it" worked in those days.
@For some of the others commenting:
Thank you for those with you kind comments and your "thanks". I say "thanks" right back. I much prefer to focus on the blind/topic and not try to find hidden motives as to why things are posted or when. Even when they are very personal to me or my mates. I think some are posted when they're topical/current events and others when we discover them. I don't speak for Enty, or even my associates but this is my view on it.
I rarely step in to these things for this very reason, because I don't want people to think I'm insulting or arguing with you. I understand people have different opinions and see things differently. Your choice, which is respected here. I get it. So I just want to share MY personal thoughts, as I'm not obliged to convince anyone of anything. Believe or don't - but I'd take a look at the CDAN historical track record first. My only desire is to share with you what I know and/or have experienced regarding this item.
Obviously I was not on the boat, so I go by what someone on the boat said; what was confessed to by someone else on the boat; and by what the cops have as NEW evidence that they're working on. So yes - there's a reason for the timing of this item. Just the same as there's a reason for the timing for the news stories coming out now. Things are happening now, and it is a fluid process.
I really don't think it's a "distraction" to divert people away from pedos or abusers or other cases/stories or whatever else interests you. It's been my experience that cops and media both are able to multitask and handle more than one case at a time. Just like I don't think there's only 1 news channel and if something's not on blast 24/7 then it is because of a conspiracy to silence it. So as far as timing goes? After 37 years I don't think Authorities are beholden to deadlines. So it may happen like this:
THE COPS WILL MAKE STATEMENTS IN PUBLIC. THEN THEY WILL WALK IT BACK A LITTLE NEXT WEEK. THEN THEY'll COME BACK A WEEK LATER WITH A BIGGER ANNOUNCEMENT. So keep watching, this is happening in real time folks. And there's a lot of people making their moves, and deals. THAT is real life. Real life is never as neat as a CSI or Law & Order episode. It takes time when it is high-stakes. The old saying that the wheels of justice grind slowly...and fine. That is true, if justice ever comes at all.
But when the justice finally arrives, even if it is a month from now? It's better than no justice. Even if it is just the truth being admitted by authorities in public and people knowing that truth and holding him to account - regardless of the punishment. It's a start and a very refreshing change from ACCIDENT to...OTHER things/charges.
If people want to call us "piggybacking" (?) for sharing this now? Fine. Go crazy, because: #opinions. OF COURSE timing is an issue, just read the opening to the Blind, my friend. There's a reason we can share this now. This isn't TMZ or cable news with "Breaking News". Not everything in life happens at the speed of tweet. Sorry if that disappoints anyone's worldview. But with perspective, 37 years is a long time to wait for the truth to be officially acknowledged by authorities and something to be done about it. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO READ ANYTHING so feel free to "turn the channel" to whatever you DO enjoy. Have at it friends (sincerely not flippantly). Since all this is FREE you really shouldn't feel you didn't get your money's worth.
PART 2 of 2:
ReplyDeleteSome families and friends go their entire lives without ever knowing the truth of what fate befell their loved one (or even themselves). That acknowledgement of admitted truth matters. Sadly, many crime vics don't even get that much and their burden crushes them without ANY acknowledgement from cops, family, or anyone. So you're likely not going to see an 80+ y.o. man locked away here. THAT is the reality, and punishment is moot in that regard. But one can find justice in hearing that truth. OUT LOUD.
You need to hear that truth. Because she wasn't just a photo or movie star to all of us. She was flesh and blood, heart and spirit. Warmth, laughter, heartache, and kindness. You HAVE TO know that truth. When a woman you've loved since your youth in 1979 when she gave you a sweet gentle platonic kiss and who wrote you the sweetest letter in a book she gave you, with photos of you together. The woman you hand-made a silly jewelry item for as a kid, and she wore it in public because she said she loved it - that it was REAL. And she said she loved YOU and the love you put into that funny little art project she wore and said it was more valuable than her diamonds. And when you know that it meant enough for it to be entombed with her body, and she carried that little token YOU made...carried it with her into the next life.
The woman who took you out to walk on a cold beach in October 1981 for a birthday picnic, and played in the sand with you away from the stuffy grown-ups, shared little silly secrets with you, made silly Russian-gypsy curses and promises with you, away from the others and told you stories about pirates, and laughed and kissed you goodbye...and you still can remember the warm smell of her perfume...and still have that special ring SHE gave YOU.
When, as a youth, only a month after you last hugged her bye, you were at her funeral and could hardly comprehend you'd never see her again. A part of your innocence died as you handed her little girl there your flower - that smelled just like her - that was soaked in a child's tears. Then you grew up and shared a special bond of love with that little girl that will never be broken. You need to hear that truth acknowledged for her relatives whom you love...and that woman's precious soul...who has never been able to Rest In Peace and is finally getting HER truth known 37 yrs. later.
So yes, the quest for hearing that truth out loud haunts you. Like a puzzle locked away inside the fragile glass walls of a child's memory, where all these years later you still want things to make sense. You still burn to know that this person who was your very special friend and confidant didn't leave you alone. SHE didn't desert you. SHE cared, and made you know you were special and you mattered. And when she needed you? You were too young, too far away, and too little to have saved her. When you'd given anything to go back and save her. So in some twisted web of childhood logic you let her down.
You have to know why. Why was she taken away? You still need it to fit in place, to restore your faith in the universe that things DO fit. That those pieces fit no matter how jagged, old, or unsatisfying they are. When you've lost so many people you love to suicide, drugs, or even murder...and you couldn't save them all. So yes, justice and her truth are personal to me. Pain, love, betrayal, passion, hurt, and honesty can all be very personal to each of us.
Apologies again, for those let down by things or my failure to entertain you - I hope you find some entertainment in something that truly pleases you. Just know that for others, it is never unimportant or too late to hear the truth come out about things that have haunted us all our lives. Godspeed to each of you and have a good evening to you...my friends.
In my imperfect parallel universe
DeleteAfter starring in 1963’s Love With the Perfect Stranger
Natalie and Steve(sorry Neile)
Live Happily Ever After 💜
Thank you! My brother was murdered over 30 years ago. I would give anything to have that person brought to justice. Since she's dying of cancer, I won't get it. Time doesn't lesson the pain. The truth should be known.
DeleteThat was a really beautiful and compassionate way to convey your thoughts. Thank you. I'm saving this, and will definitely ready again.
DeleteA lovely recollection. The truth should be told if it will make others feel at peace. I wonder what Natalie thinks?
DeleteBeautifully written. This happened when I was a wee lass and I knew then what he had done. Hoping for some justice.
DeleteYou are an excellent writer and I love your insight in HW. Your stories literally make my day. THANK YOU!
DeleteSimilar but not identical to what Himmmm posted in 3-part comments here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2013/04/natalie-wood-saw-robert-wagner.html
Well said Himmmm! And ever so sad for you and those who loved her. I think the truth should out especially if it can bring any comfort to those who loved her. May she Rest In Peace.
ReplyDeleteAn accident?
ReplyDeleteHimmmm, thank you for generously sharing your sweet recollections with us. It may be corny, but in a hippy-dippy, pseudometaphysical way, I believe that stories, true representations, and the echoes of the past touch our lives in a real way when we observe them. What is a story to us is a piece of your soul. I hope that the cost in your telling it is offset by justice for her.
ReplyDeleteYou brought tears to my eyes, Himmmm. You do her proud. God's speed and comfort to all who loved her in the coming weeks. Bless you for helping to reveal her truth, and no matter what happens to the guilty or what they say, the true story will be the historic record.
ReplyDeleteHere's to Himmmm, and Natalie... may we all be ever so blessed to give so much love to someone, that that love lives beyond our death.
ReplyDeleteI thought this story was very old news? My grandmother told me this story because she was a national enquirer reader. But it's good to see the la pd doing something useful rather than their usual job of protecting scientologists
ReplyDeleteReading that...thank you.It hurts.My own deceased Mum & I would bond late night watching Nat glow on UHF. No, putting RJ away wont bring her back. But acknowledging his jealousy of her talent and saying Im sorry to so many that loved her & are inspired by her to this day...that would be justice.
ReplyDeleteAnd makes you wonder how much havoc and craziness closets and closeting in Hollywood and the music biz has caused. And in sports? Lord. The NDA's . The lavender marriage contracts. The trips to the IVF doc to get those beard babies hatched. The blackmailing. The sweaty denials in magazine. The over the top photoshoots on beaches with your model beard and beard baby perched on your shoulders. Everyone needs to start to live in truth. Whether gay, straight or bi. Just stop with all the subterfuge because really tragic outcomes like this have happened more than once imho. But many years later and practically nothing in Hollyweird has changed. #rip #god rest her soul
ReplyDeleteShow Business-
DeleteWomen who buy tickets to movies and influence TV ratings lose interest in their favorite actors
when they come out. The Studios $ know $ it.
In 2018 let's stop blaming women and girls for the heterosexual balding grabby gropers in Hollyweird who run things like it's still the homophobic 50's .
Deletehmmmm.....thankyou for the reminder that Natalie was a real person who had real people who loved and mourn for her. She is not a superficial someone who we know only from the screen.
ReplyDeleteI totally get the pain. When we are young, these traumas remain within our psyches because we cannot process them correctly. As we age the anxiety or loneliness instilled from the wound continues even though with time we may forget the origins of the emotional burden we carry daily. We continue to cope, self-medicate, or whatever works. We layer ourselves with one coping strategies after another that help, in the beginning, but become harmful to us and our relationships as we age. A penetrating wound such as this, for a young child, can be such a heavy burden to carry through life. I pray for you and those you love that relief and healing will come in the revealing, the knowing, and the sense of justice.
Thank you for your person recollections of the luminous Natalie Himmmm.
ReplyDeletePaging Plot (who seems versed in the legalise)......I'm not in the USA so know little about that particular legal system, but it seems everyone on board was wilfully complicit in Natalie's death, can they be charged with Homicide, Manslaughter or Causing Wrongful Death, there is no statute of limitations on murder but what about manslaughter?
I remember watching Natalie as a kid in the 60's, she was so glamorous and full of life. The report of her "accident" was always questionable even to someone in Colorado. Noguchi always sensationalized his cases, we were used to that. Robert Blake, who was childhood friends with Natalie, came out afterwards saying she was deathly terrified of dark water and would never have gotten into the water at night by herself. Highly suspect, I'm glad the truth will finally be "outed"
ReplyDeleteWagner is a douche bag. So not only did he let her scream for her life in that frigid water, he forcibly stopped Walken and the worker from helping her. I don't care how drunk and drugged you are, anyone with a modicum of decency would have given her a hand and certainly wouldn't have stopped someone else from helping her. I hope he's charged with a criminal offence.
ReplyDeleteMust be why RJ was named a person of interest today.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Himmm. That was beautiful. It also underscores that,much-maligned Hollywood is as filled with good humans as it is the monsters that usually pepper these pages. Every powerful industry has an equal measure of both.
ReplyDeleteMay Natalie Wood get the justice she deserves. I’ve brought this up to every 40 yo+ person I know and zero of them have been surprised.
ReplyDeleteMakes you really wonder what else has been covered up to protect monsters at the expense of innocent people.
Also makes you wonder why her life was worth less than his to those involved.
I have an interesting side note: Michael Weatherly got the break that lead to his lead role on NCIS by meeting its creator Donald Bellisario while in Australia filming a miniseries about NW in which he played RJ. As an inside joke, they decided to hire RJ to play MW's character's father (which became a recurring thing). On Ma's new show Bull, there was a fairly recent episode that played out the morality of a bunch of frat boys covering up the accidental drowning of one of their own while they all were under the influence of alcohol. The final decision was to put all of the blame on the leader since he convince the others the drowning boy could help himself, then pressured them to keep quiet once it was determined that he was dead. Of course in this story, the leader eventually felt enough guilt to accept his responsibility.
ReplyDeleteUgh. "Ma's" should be "MW's" and "convince to others the..." should be "convinced the others that the..."
DeleteNot sure if I'm reading this right , how many people were on the yacht, there do seem to be 6 people . Wagner, Woods, Walken, the Captain, a worker and a Guest. The blind says the guest was a man (he) so who was this unnamed guest, that came forward in 1985 with the true story?
ReplyDeleteThe guest is Walken, if you read Himmmm's comments in the link Whineaux provided it adds more to the story.
ReplyDeleteWalken tried to help, so did the worker (whom I presume to be the Captain?). If we go by the comments Himmmm provided in the earlier link, Wagner also threatened both the Captain and Walken.
Also:
"The young actor who was there that night has told a few people, and he has been driven crazy by the guilt."
"The young actor (who is not young anymore) has seen to it that what he knows will see daylight someday,"
implies to me the guest that came forward in 1985 with the true story was Walken.
So which drunk guy is the author of this narrative?
ReplyDeleteThe boat captain?
The least drunk guy?
Is it wrong of me to think that Wagner probably has lived with crippling guilt ever since, because of his confession to her children?
ReplyDeleteA cold blooded piece of shit would never do that. That's something else. I mean, sitting down with the people she gave birth to, looking them in the eyes and confessing you were to blame for her death? Harrowing.
Maybe this was Sinatra's condition? I think FS was a stand up guy, I only ever heard amazing stories about him.
This is all very tragic, esp since alcohol and drugs were involved. It's much easier to hate a man to plans to kill somebody, the one who was fucking out of it. I don't think he wanted her to die, judging by this story.
@himmmm *rolls eyes*
ReplyDelete^bitch
DeleteDefinitely Wood/Wagner/Walken and the security guard who tried to help.
ReplyDeleteIt is very affecting to read a PERSONAL perspective on all this horror, written with emotional honesty and transparency. It effectively negates the concerns raised by @JohnDoe--which I agreed with--that this latest Wood/Wagner/Walken revelation is a misdirect from the pedophilia investigations.
ReplyDeleteIt made me think about whether, subconsciously, I am too much seeing all these actors and actresses as just that, even in real life: Two dimensional players in a larger drama, not real human beings. They are. A real person died, she deserves justice, when that justice arrives it is a Good Thing, no matter when it happens.
Thank you for writing this @Himmmmm. You are very talented (x5?), which I already knew, but it's gracious of you to share that--and many of the secrets you have opened to us in the months and years past. God bless you and your family, keep up the good work, and may the country not go into psychic meltdown if all this horrible truth actually breaks into the mainstream.
truth should always be told. thank you for telling her story, I hope you get a bigger audience some day. xoxo
ReplyDeleteNever going to trial. Wagner has been lawyered up for years and has said nothing. Unless he wants to confess there is nothing there; any inconsistencies over the years can be easily explained away as drunk on the night and the passage of time. Davern, the captain, wouldn't be a credible witness even if he is now telling the truth. He was drunk at the time, has repeatedly changed his story and apparently changed his story because of money from journalists. A competent defense attorney can easily turn those facts into "reasonable doubt". Walken, if he talked in 1985, it is probably far less than the story presented here. If he confessed in 1985, that they pushed her in the water and then stood around, the detectives that reopened the case several years ago would have already pressed charges. Most probably his 1985 statement revealed that there had been fights between Wagner and Wood before her disappearance. I doubt that he changed his statement about being down below deck at the time she actually went overboard.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the most interesting thing is that both Wagner and Walken remained highly employable actors for decades after this incident. Given that Wood herself was extremely popular in the Hollywood community it is doubtful this would have been the case if Hollywood hadn't concluded that it was a tragedy for all concerned.
This is such a tragic story and I hope there is justice for Natalie.
ReplyDelete@Lucy
ReplyDeleteBecause when someone is in danger, 3 (or is it 4?) able bodied men don't ignore it. Natalie was screaming for help loudly enough for another boat to hear her, yet all the men on board froze in their tracks because Robert Wagner told them to leave her???? BULLSHIT! Even if they were drunk and drugged, no one leaves a friend like Natalie in the water because RW ordered them to. That makes utterly no sense.
@emeraldcity
D Brown explains it pretty well. At this point, no new evidence is going to be uncovered and even if one of the witnesses rises up and points a red accusing finger at Wagner, it will be one of those he said/he said situations that DAs don't even bother over.
The need to print yet another slant on the Natalie story every 3-5 years has also muddied investigations and certainly have compromised any fair trial.
As to the other guys on the boat being guilty of anything...hell who knows. Under normal circumstances, if 4 (or is it 5?) guys watch one of their girlfriends die without helping her, yeah, they would be charged with something probably if only to force them to testify against her boyfriend who did the actual killing. This case is far too old to use those tactics.
Maybe Natalie's death was a tragic accident, we will never know. The thoroughly compromised PDs in Southern California, to benefit the movie industry and the elite, mean there are many many deaths of stars and hangers-on (lots of crimes, too) that remain big mysteries, probably forever.
I had also read about Natalie's long held fear of the water. I don't see an argument or even an affair between RJ and CW compelling her to try and flee on her own in a little boat.
ReplyDeleteGranted all of them were drunk, but to me the most likely thing to cause her to try and get away is if RJ really gave her a beating.
It's so fucking malicious that he let her struggle. Given her being drunk, afraid of water, and that coat that was weighing her down, she never had a chance of getting out of the water.
I always suspected that he was a narcissist - he moved on so fast, and didn't seem very tormented about it over the years. I think it's possible that he let her drown, to cover up that he had really beaten her badly.
I just don't know what the police could have now that they didn't the last time they reopened the case.
Wow Himmmmm. That was amazing!
ReplyDelete@DDonna Tartty,
I was not the person who said that this story was a means of distracting from the pedo investigations. [I decided to take a break from those for while which is why I was absent from the site for a bit...] Someone else made that comment. I wouldn't have said that about Natalie's murder. She was one of the few actresses from 'Old Hollywood' whom I actually liked. I feel sorry for her, and I feel bad for her children. She was unfairly taken out at the peak of her life and career---because she was in love with a man who never really loved her. Most people, if not everyone, suspect that Wagner assaulted and pushed her off that yacht that night. I feel certain that that's what happened. I once read somewhere a long time ago that she had a phobia about deep waters and drowning, and if this is true then the moments just before she drowned while she was struggling in the water and realized that no one was coming to help her must have been extremely terrifying!
I DID ask why they were bringing the case up again now only because they have done so before and it keeps getting squashed. A long time has passed and I hope that the truth will come out this time---but that will happen only if Wagner confesses. He is old now and no longer has a career so he has no reason to keep lying about being gay or about his role in her death. As I said before, I don't believe that Walken is innocent in any of this either. She caught them together. She was likely threatening to expose him too. For all we know they may both have dragged her out on deck and thrown her overboard.
@ Henlo, I do believe that her mocking him about his homosexuality during the argument is what got him into the rage that led to the physical fight between them. In this particular situation, it wasn't necessarily about who was right or wrong because we don't know the exact details, and they were all pissed drunk, high on coke, and charged to the hilt that night.
What I don't understand is why she married Wagner the second time when she knew what he was? She knew that he was cheating on her with both men and women behind her back. She was a big star. She had the pick of the litter. She could have chosen a better man. But, I suppose hindsight is always 20/20. The sad answer to the question is that she was really in love with him. We see this a lot in Hollywood...decent people who fall for totally the wrong person and the situation leads to their downfall and doom---Whitney, Selena...just to name a couple.
I hope Natalie gets justice.
Is there any basis for connecting this news with the re-make of West Side Story?
ReplyDeleteI apologize for misinterpreting your comment @JohnDoe. You are smart, knowledgable, insightful and a good writer. I do not wish for you to think ill of me, and I do not want to be a conduit for misinformation about what you are trying to communicate. Thank you for your posts here and elsewhere. God bless you.
ReplyDeleteNatalie is one of the ultimate victims of Hollywood, in all it's seedist facets. It started with her family, as it always does, in teaching Natalie that only her appearance mattered and that NO ONE would every protect her. NO ONE would back her if she went public with the Kirk Douglas rape. NO ONE wanted her to be anything but that little girl in Miracle on 34th Street, for her whole fucking life. Don't grow up. Don't complain about anything. Don't argue or create any ripples in the fabric of the Hollywood power structure.
ReplyDeleteAny wonder why she turned to drink and promiscuity to hang on to life in the jungle?
She probably remarried RW because in some way he made her feel safe. If RW is really gay, he might not have demanded sex from her on command like so many others did. He might have had a position in old gay Hollywood that kept them both protected to some extent from any public airing of their "misdeeds". He might have adored her, put her on a pedestal, calmed her. What was a safe haven might have also been a curse since RW was often choosing men over her in the bedroom and feeling that primary need of being wanted by men, so ever present in her childhood and life, was overwhelming.
Let's not forget that Natalie was also aging, at the time of her death, according to the standards of Hollywood. Having worked from childhood in an environment of being wanted meant she was employed (and her family survived.) Suddenly aging out of that condition must have been incredibly painful. Drunkenly taking that out on Wagner, after catching him with Walken (allegedly), would make sense. Her star power was on the wane and even her husband didn't want her. I can see the fireworks from here.
I think Wagner lost it and beat the living shit out of her. I don't think there was any screaming from the water that anyone could hear or imagine as distress. No one knew she was in the water other than Wagner.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/tv/tv-guy/os-et-natalie-wood-death-robert-wagner-person-of-interest-20180201-story.html
ReplyDelete@Honey: My first knee-jerk reaction was one of those daughters has spoken up. There's no way all those daughters he confessed to were able to forgive and forget. NOPE. NOPE. NOPE! One or more have been self-medicating since and are in a mess.
ReplyDeleteI posted before I had read Hmmmm's 2-part postings. One or both of the daughters have gone to LE. IF Wagner confessed to those girls, he burddoned them for life and set them up for a possible life-time of self-medication. Unburdening to loved-ones for something like that is selfish and unconscionable.
ReplyDeleteWagner will never be jailed, but the girls themselves may have just a smitten of self-relief, self-preservation.
People are saying that he was sleeping with her or that she caught the 2 men together and was angry about it.
ReplyDeleteIs it not possible that they were a threesome?
What a very sad and tragic story.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize or remember that Christopher Walken spoke about this in 1985. Anyone have a source? I would really like to read what he said back then.
ReplyDelete@Himmmm thank you for the tears, the feeling of empathy i feel for your connection. I got to feel your tender heart. I love your depth and compassion and moral compass. Keep on keeping on beautiful human xo your writing is so raw so real! muah!
ReplyDelete@plot
ReplyDeleteI can somewhat understand your White Knight logic but this is unusual circumstance. we don't know the scene it could have been far more involved than tossing a preserver or reaching a hand over and hoisting her up. she was afraid of water so it's safe to assume she was screaming and flailing. the captain would surely hesitate jumping in open water as he'd rightly assume he'd drown right along with with her. Walken may have had his attempt pre-empted with a “she is going to tell everyone about us, we will be ruined" not to mention all of their reaction time/thought process would surely be lessened due to their consumption. heck even the captain may have feared he'd be liable for operating a boat drunk (if that was a thing back then) this too could have all taken place while the boat was in motion and in complete dark. also too what if Wagner had some sort of weapon? I think it is naive of you to scream bullshit and just flatly dismiss
What a lovely bunch of commenters you all are. Except for reliable asses plot and rafael. Thank you Himmmm
ReplyDelete@Southern Charm: I think you are right, this is a post and comment section to save.
ReplyDelete"I can somewhat understand your White Knight logic but this is unusual circumstance."
ReplyDeleteIt's nothing to do with white knight conditions. It has to do with someone is in distress and the natural thing is to save them. Anyone would do it. Robert Wagner was not a powerful enough player to impose his will on 3 (?) other men.
Maybe it is naive but it has never been my experience that 3 (?) people would stand around and ignore another in distress until she/he died. That is a horrible thing to live with for the rest of one's life. No one wants it in their heads until their dying day - consigning another to a long and painful death, filled with panic and hysteria while sitting around waiting for his/her death. Sure, maybe a complete sociopath, but I doubt Walken and the other 2 (?) guys suddenly became magically pathological in that moment.
Yes, @BarbaraRicehand....and I like you, i thought I was the only one screenshotting these blinds too!
ReplyDeleteIn fact, on my iPad, I have a separate little album in Photos for them, called "Blinds." :-D
There were 4 people on the boat. Woods, Wagner, Walken (which was the guest) and the captain (referred to as the worker). I can see Wagner bullying the captain to go back inside. Plus, I'm sure he was scared to jump in and save her because Wagner would probably just let him drown to. If Wagner told Walken that she was just playing hysterics as the blind says, I can see him believing that. Since he was so drunk and drugged. I can absolutely believe that it happened this way.
ReplyDeleteI just had another belated thought on this one ...
ReplyDelete"She said she would call her lawyer and he can stay behind. Since the house and money were hers, she'd get the kids too".
She would leave him with nothing and probably ruin his reputation and leave his career in taters, which gives a motive for him to push her in and let her drown. He may have regreted it later but if he did push her in, did the other two see it, would one or both of the others really come forward and admit to being an accessory to murder after the fact, I'd like to think one would but I won't hold my breath.
In light of that scenario, the next question is does this blind have anything to do with the one a few days ago that everyone pinned on Shatner.
Terrified of water. From childhood, Natalie had been terrified of being in the water.
ReplyDeleteI never bought for a minute that she may have tried to get the life boat or whatever down and tried to put out to open waters. No matter how buzzed you may be, there's always that part of your brain that stamps its foot and says "no" to things like jumping into water or going on the roof if you're afraid of the drink or heights.
That she was pushed in the height of a wild argument makes sense.
Poor woman. How terrified she must have been. RIP, Natasha.
Him : I want to say my heart aches for your personal loss. When A loved one passes we never get over it we relegate to the recesses of our mind. Those fond memories needn’t be replaced by the tradgedy. Don’t let that take residence. You loved her. Let that be what you remember.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes she needs the truth out there. She lived RJ enough to marry him twice. I am not saying they shouldn’t be addressed it is long coming. What I am saying is even with vindication it will not bring her back. It is a hollow victory.
I think nothing will ease the pain of losing a erson we love. It fades but will always be with us. I hope some solace and peace are granted to her girls and loved ones.
Imagine any normal person in these circumstances with no money, hotshot lawyers, power or fame. There's no way they would ever be able to cover it up for near 4 decades. Can you imagine giving that story to the police and it being accepted? Amazing how the law works differently for different people. I always thought the story would change eventually as I never bought the explanations given and as people get older they sometimes feel a need to clear their consciences. I hope her sister and family get the resolution they deserve.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNo one will see this at the bottom, but... there ia an enlightening book written about the Wagners "Good-Bye Splendour" - which makes a lot of sense. The captain, Davern, was a heavy drinker but then so were the Wagners and Walken. Bob Wagner had hit Natalie several times during their fight. Davern was used to the sounds of fighting and ignored it. Natalie grabbed a coat and asked to be taken ashore, as she had often sought the safety of the restaurant owners there when things got hot - they cared about her and were discreet. She demanded she be taken there, but Bob refused. The dinghy was in fact tied to the yacht, but Natalie had never and would never expose herself alone to the dark waters of the harbor there.
ReplyDeleteShe may have been hit again and hit her head, but in any case she was allowed to fall completely into the cold dark water. She yelled for help - which several witnesses heard - but she was struggling against a sodden down coat and didn't stand a chance.
The original autopsy - Bob had argued against an autopsy very theatrically - showed an assortment of bruises consistent with spousal abuse. After the incident, Wagner took Davern into his home and took care of him (and his drinking proclivity) for months and months. He was watching Davern so that he'd never have the chance to make his version of the story known. He was literally the prisoner of a very skeevy Wagner. He was cut loose when he became too ill from years of drinking to be very believable, but he was close to one of Natalie's girls and told her. Neither daughter trusted Bob after their mother's death. Honestly, given the current state of this story, give the book a read. The poor captain Davern was just guilt-ridden that he didn't forcibly help Natalie that night, but as captain in name only, he held a rather servile position.
@Digitalis: I saw your post. Interesting.
ReplyDeleteFucking hilarious, my comment re: hmmmm is gone. I'd say that proves I'm right :)
ReplyDeleteThis story makes a lot of sense. I also read that Good Bye Splendor" book and found it believable too. I think there was just far far too much drinking and drunken behavior between them all that night.
ReplyDeleteBut the Frank Sinatra angle is new to me and also makes sense. All together a very sad story. Walker is nearly as culpable in all of this at this point as Wagner since he covered up the truth.
She will never get justice. I think the reason she stopped fighting in the water is that she probably got hypothermia and became too cold to struggle anymore. Cold paralyzes you, especially in water.
Sinatra I assume.
ReplyDeleteI always knew it was RW. I've always been pissed her children didn't have her and neither did we. He WOULD have had to confess to them, that was the only way. I can see how this could have happened, but he should have paid like anyone else. Joe shmo would have paid. Fuk
Here is a piece with several of Walken's comments over the years (thogh is suggests he first spoke to People Mag in '86, not '85).
ReplyDeletehttps://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/christopher-walken-said-night-natalie-wood-died-234157259.html
"He gave a curt quote to People magazine about Wood’s death in 1986: “I don’t know what happened,” Walken said. “She slipped and fell in the water. I was in bed then. It was a terrible thing. Look, we’re in a conversation I won’t have. It’s a f***ing bore.”
The magazine noted that Walken “snapped” his response and that his eyes were “icy.”"
Lots more from subsequent years.
@Doug, what is the Twitter feed you say is vary interesting?
ReplyDelete@Helen Waite, a belated answer to your question: https://twitter.com/JohnDoe78359022
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