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OK, finally got around to watching GOT from Sunday, so have at it.
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I'm tired of the whole incest rape controversy. Debatable if even considered a rape. Shouldn't be watching that show if taboo sex is a problem for you.
ReplyDeleteIn the context of GOT that was a mild scene.
DeleteYa, really.. the whole show is basically some kind of elaborate medieval porn
ReplyDeleteIt was a hard episode, even for GoT. The "I'm going to eat your mama and then I'm going to eat your daddy" = YIKES.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, it was rape. She said no multiple times. Jaime's character, as they're playing it, is one that you alternately love and hate. This episode was heavy on the haterade, including the Hound scene.
The scene in the book was not rape; the scene in the show was. Nothing debatable about it.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I don't get why people are freaking out. Dany was raped in the pilot, a kid was thrown out a window, a man got his penis lopped off, a pregnant woman was butchered at a wedding, and this is supposed to be too much?
It's not the first time consensual sex in the book was turned into rape in the show, and I'm still bitter about Dany's wedding night so I'll probably be bitter about the latest choice for a while.
ReplyDeleteI read that part, too, Feedly- because people were bringing it up in discussion. That one definitely sounds consensual in the book, however, she was 14 and didn't really have a choice. Although, I always thought it was weird in the show that she could be raped by someone and then be so in love with them a short time later...and I really loved their love story, but found it hard to grasp the rape to love part.
DeleteMerp. I haven't read the books, but people are all up in arms about how it wasn't portrayed as rape in the book. I read that part, and its unclear if it was consensual or if she just said 'Ok, hurry up' because she knew he wasn't going to stop...and it's told from Jaime's POV, so, of course it's going to sound less like rape...but even then it's unclear because she does say 'No' at first. I don't know, Cersei is the type to say 'No! No!' and then totally be into it because she is crazy and fake...and those two characters are totally turned on by weird power-struggle stuff. She did kiss him and pull him in, after all. I don't care, I love the show, and I'm just glad King Bieber is dead.
ReplyDeleteMy favourite part were the last three minutes with Dany's speech and the hurled barrels. Ok, I'm biased... Dany is my favourite in the books and in the show.
ReplyDeleteControversy aside - I think the season has started great and eager to see where it goes- so many story lines I wish each episode should be two hours long.
ReplyDeleteI have not read the books so i don't know what's coming.
DeleteI don't know much about people getting up in arms watching it (I'm terrible at social media), but the first thing I thought was rape. You don't need a whistle for it to happen.
ReplyDeleteThe Dany scene, as Feedly mentioned, was completely twisted. In the book, Dany is won over by Drago and the wedding night fun times are consensual. In the show, Drago takes Dany while she's crying.
YEP- the Dany scene was definitely rape on the show. I freaking love Dany....she's also my favorite, Rolf.
DeleteOh, people are all up in arms! The first thing I thought this week was rape, too- but then I was reading that the show runners and
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau weren't trying to portray it/didn't think it came off as rape, per say. I think it might have had more to do with the editing. If they had left the part in the book in where she says 'Hurry! Do me now!' it would have made more sense.
The first thing I said after this scene was "oh how lovely, an incestuous rape scene". Was it disturbing, yes, was it shocking, no. This is afterall a show where they are murdering and cutting off peoples heads left and right. I find it more disturbing in myself that I am being desensitized to this type of entertainment truthfully.
ReplyDeleteI was confused as to why they decided to make it rape tho in the book, it isn't exactly consensual.
ReplyDeleteThe cannibals are a bit much too. Human flesh must be like spinach to those folks.
King Beiber?! Waaahahahahaha....priceless perfection, Terese!!
ReplyDeleteRape...yes, but I think she could have stopped him. Of course, maybe she was too weak from mourning her vile child, but, I think she could have stopped it but chose not to. That's not saying I agree with what Jaime did!! It's saying these two have all sorts of mind-f*ckery games! and she toys wih him! and she let herself be vulnerable for a moment but said the words no. So, rape, yes, but, I think she let it happen in some ways. not that she is at fault in that moment, and not that I wouldn't throw anyone's ass in jail for doing what he did, if girl says no as she did. Just saying that between these two head cases, it could be seen as a consensual rape if that makes any sense at all... All the mind games, perverse passion, love-hating each other and taking aggression out on each other constantly, often sexually... these are incestuous sibs / parents, so, applying the norm to them doesn't fit.
Yes, PS! King Beiber was the bane of my existence forever hahah! I agree with your take on it- that's kind of how I saw it in the book and on the show, it just all comes down to your perception of things.
DeleteFor example, a book reader posted this in a thread: "People really need to go back and think on what they thought they read in the books. Dany is a child who has just been sold to a renowned killer and warlord, and the possibility of her consent is dubious at best - 'consent' is her only option. Similarly, the scene with Jaime and Cersei is from Jaime's point of view, and even through his eyes, it isn't a gentle or consensual thing. Her protests are more 'no, no, okay, get it over with' - in her reflections later, she seems to rationalize it and tell herself it was consensual, to salvage some dignity and make herself feel less powerless. She does this with Kettleblack, if I remember too."
I can see it both ways after reading the passages from the books and seeing the show- both scenes could be seen as being changed to rape, or they can be seen as being unclear in both or rape in both. Just depends on how you think.
There's nothing like Crow y'all.
ReplyDeleteFor those who say the scene in the show is absolutely and undebatably rape, I wonder if they noticed Cersei grabbing his face and pulling him to her to kiss while it was going on, or indeed pulling down her own pants to give him access.
ReplyDeleteShe said, "No, we shouldn't," not "No, I don't want to."
Yes, Jonathan. This is what I thought after watching it a few times.
DeleteThey definitely changed that scene - Jaime had just gotten back and Cersei was happy to see him. So the show has changed their relationship and I don't know why. Also Jaime had started to redeem himself and this casts him back to the guy who threw Bran out the window. The show runners have also changed his character now.
ReplyDeleteI read all the uproar and frankly was surprised when I saw the scene. This whole episode was horrific and the rape didn't stand out from the rest of the savagery.
msgirl - I had dvd'ed the episode but had seen a spoiler about the controversial incest rape scene 'Have they gone too far!!' I then watched the episode and was very underwhelmed by that scene. Mainstream controversy by media trying to rile up audience that doesn't watch the show in my opinion, Don't think fans of show too upset (although sounds like some that have read the books might be concerned that changes from how portrayed in books which I could understand if I had become a fan from reading the books..)
DeleteI do know that they changed the timing of when Jaime comes back, and her distain for him on the show might have something to do with how that scene is perceived by many who read the book. I haven't exactly decided what I think yet...but that is what is great about this show, it keeps you thinking the entire week between episodes. Either way, it's awesome and I am excited for the rest of the season.
ReplyDeleteTexas girl, yup.
ReplyDeleteOh another deviation from the book - Cersei was hesitant because she had her period. A mess in the sept!
msgirl - I'm a dude.
DeleteWoah man
DeleteThe FUCK!?!?!? Texas Rose is a dude?!?!?!?
Deleteconsider my mind blown.
Whaaa?!? You're a dude @ Texas Rose?!?
DeleteI know the name probably implies a woman (and always wondered if/suspected that people thought I was a woman but didn't want to change and then reappear) but do you read my comments?? You must have thought I was a pretty crude woman given a lot of the swearing and crude sex comments, although I do actually try to be thoughtful and intelligent in my comments also. I hope we can still be friends.
DeleteI never thought your comments were particularly crude, texas rose, perhaps that says more about me than it does about you lol.
DeleteYou're cool.
(Tune in next week when texas rose reveals he's never even BEEN to Texas, but is in fact from Shropshire, England)
Totally knew texas rose has a weiner!
Delete#ahburn
ReplyDeleteShe also wanted Jaimie to kill Tyrion to seek revenge for Joefrey in the same scene. So I thought that was her way to gain control over Jamie and to turn him against Tyrion.
ReplyDeleteI mean they are always changing alies in their twisted mind-games. So she made sure Jamie was on her side.
DeleteThis show jumped the shark (ok, played out phrase) when Ned died. Not interested at all.
ReplyDeleteTexas Rose -I'm the one with Girl in the name hahah! But I didn't know you were a dude, so good to know!
ReplyDeletemsgirl - texas rose the flower - no caps. No problem- should I change it?
DeleteNot because of my own stupidity! :)
ReplyDeleteJonathan, yes. Cersei was saying "It's wrong" over and over.
ReplyDeleteBut I noticed she grammed Jaime's face too, and kissed him. She was torn....
for those who did not understand why this is awful i recommend this:
ReplyDeletehttp://feministfiction.com/2014/04/22/jaime-lannister-in-broken-chains/
and this
http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/tagged/Jaime-Lannister
As a lover of the books, and Jaime's character in the books, I thought it was awful. In fact, I thought the whole episode was terrible, and I had loved every other episode so far this season. Half of the episode was just gratuitous sex and violence that either wasn't even in the books at all, or wasn't at all how it was portrayed in the books. We get it HBO, you're hip and cool and you can put all the sex and violence and rape and incest you want in your show (because those things are hip and cool, obviously). But you're ruining it.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of the scene being rape never entered my mind. If they wanted it to be rape, they could have done a better job of it, like in the I Spit On Your Grave remake. Now that was some entertaining rape.
ReplyDelete@Texas: I thought you were a crude chick. This is like getting slipped a tranny surprise. I am glad I never asked your height.
ReplyDeleteThat said, welcome aboard, bro. We could use more posters on Team Testicles around here.
Everyone keeps missing the really disturbing part of the scene- they were doing it I front of her dead son!!! I mean "their" dead son.
ReplyDeleteWas this the first time they acknowledged that Joff was *their* son?
@secondbecky...that is what made the scene gross in the books to me and the show scene was just as gross.
ReplyDeleteI've read both the books and the show and the books come across more consensual than the show. Frankly, it did look like rape to me and if that was not the intent of the scene for the show, the director did a crap job of directing the scene and the editing sucked too. I thought what they did with Drogo in season 1 was also rape, where as in the book, there is a communication barrier between the two, but he does try to make sure she is okay with it by asking her "No?" I just think the show makes unnecessary changes from the books when they don't have to. I understand why they've made most of the changes they did (streamlining characters, stories etc due to time and budget). Jaime Lannister (not my favorite character by far, let me add) in the books is faithful to Cersei and does not look favorably upon rapists. Having this scene go down the way it did contradicts the characterization. No Jaime is not a good guy, he did push a child out of the window and does not feel sorry that he did it, but he's not a rapist.
Given the fact that many critics are calling the show out for this scene and how it was handled (along with some fans) tells me the show screwed the pooch with their intent on this scene.
As a whole, the episode stunk. The only good part was the scene with Tyrion in jail talking to his squire. The wildlings are awful. I am sure that little boy is going to kill Ygritte and that can't happen soon enough for me. The Daario recast is not working for me...Daario is supposed to be a douche, this guy comes across as a charming rogue.