Yesterday started off bad for Paula when she no showed a Today Show interview and then made two videos which she posted to You Tube in which she apologized for her actions. Neither was done very well and there was no real sincerity or apology in either. Later in the day she posted a third video which apologized to Matt Lauer for her Today Show no show. That is not going to help. They will find some other chef to come and be a regular guest chef.
Food Network did say that the shows featuring her sons Jamie and Bobby would not be affected.
This is going to blow over and she'll be back.
ReplyDeleteAnyone remember the scandal Robert Irvine generated when it turned out he lied big time about his resume?
Food Network yanked him and his shows, he disappeared for a while, but now he's back.
Same situation.
Network execs count on the short attention span of the viewing public - as soon as this quiets down, she'll do a major mea culpa and she'll be back.
what she said was wrong, no argument. She admitted to it and asked for forgiveness. I love her but she did violate moral clause in contract. Gotta go. Love her, don't judge but she needs to take a Martha hiatus and return soon.
DeleteStop the drug addled aplogies, or whatevers going on. Say, i made a huge error in judgement by saying thoughtless and hurtful things. I apologize to any one i may have offended ". Then- STFU!!!!! Go silent for a year or so. Disappear. Stop kissing everybidys ass. And for the love of gid, DONT GO ON OPRAH!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see Oprah king hit Deen with something deep fried.
DeleteAll she needs to do is hire a competent PR team and she will be back.
ReplyDeleteWell, take a fucking stand and boycott her insulin dependent fat, saggy ass! Farknhell! In other countries she wouldn't get a job in a supermarket handing out free samples from the deli.
DeleteShe's screwed. For now at least.
ReplyDeleteShe's be back. Just watch..
ReplyDeleteAgree with Merlin after a few months there will be a special and if there isn't blow back. You will see her back on the air shilling her fried butter.
ReplyDeleteI think she could of saved herself if she had just explained herself clearly and owned up to her testimony. Instead of the PR written vague not apologizing apologizing bizarre videos.
Dog the Bounty Hunter got his show back after a few months.
I doubt she will be in exile forever, which is the real punishment these people need the fans, the shows the airtime to validate their existence and feed their egos. The money is secondary.
I can't lie, I won't be buying her shit. But then, I never did. This just solidifies my long standing suspicion that she was & is a major phoney.
ReplyDeleteReally?? She'll only be back because some white people think its ok to use the N-word as an insult. No Black person will ever forgive her or buy her products nor watch her show. Plus the bitch wasn't that great of a cook anyways.... Kanye Shrug"
ReplyDeleteReally?? She'll only be back because some white people think its ok to use the N-word as an insult. No Black person will ever forgive her or buy her products nor watch her show. Plus the bitch wasn't that great of a cook anyways.... Kanye Shrug"
ReplyDeleteButter luck next time, BITCH!!
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, she'll be back by next year.
No she'll be back...maybe she'll get religion that always works.
ReplyDeleteNever underestimate the buying power of White Trash. Even Dog the bounty hunter got his show back.
ReplyDeleteLook at the food networks audience- she will be back after groveling a bit- Magnus 21 Gunz may be right about blacks not forgiving her but they don't watch the food network.
ReplyDeleteLast I checked, I am black and I watch Food Network. Way to make a generalization...
DeleteYeah. Amazing the undertones to these comments. I'm surprised no one said the "colored" only watch her fried chicken eps. Fark!
DeleteShe's not someone with broad appeal across the whole spectrum, I suspect that a part of her audience will just not care about it and will continue to cook her terrifyingly heart-stopping Elvis-food and another part will actively support what she said.
ReplyDeleteThe remaining part that are horrified will turn to another lard-laden cook and Butterface will be back in no time, mea culpa at the ready and The South Shall Rise Again tattooed on her ass cheeks - in full, in one line, ALL CAPS.
I live in the South & learned about her firing through my local news station on FB. It was VERY interesting to read the comments that went along w/ the post. All but one were anti Food Network and pro Paula Deen. Most people said they would no longer watch Food Network & supported Paula. Freedom of Speech and what she said 20 yrs ago should not affect her now were the most popular reasons for supporting her. Not that I agree w/ the posters at all but she does have some people who have her back...and that pile of deep fried money to fall back on.
ReplyDeleteTexas Rose yes Its true I am too busy watching BET 24/7 365 days a week I have never changed the channel nor has any other black person I have ever met ever changed the channel to watch The Food Network.
ReplyDelete*side eye*
I think a fair amount of people white/black/asian hispanic were turned off enough that she won't have a place on mainstream TV no advertisers will touch her. Maybe a station that caters to more southern right leaning people but it would still be a stretch.
Lelale. LOL at your first paragraph. Touche!
DeleteDoes StormFront have a YouTube channel she could get a show on?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure she's white enough for storm front. Let's just hope her clan wear is nice n white. Hope her doc martens are polished up and rearing to go. Can't imagine Paula with a crew cut though...
DeleteI don't think that she will be able to come back from this. Maybe die hard fans, but people that were on the fence are going to steer clear of her, imho. Her biggest problem is that in her own mind what she did is no big deal. her apologies are insincere because she keeps saying, but Im old, my Granddaddy had slaves and couldn't run the farm without them, I think they look nice in tuxes, it's just how I am, etc. etc. As a public figure, it doesn't matter what your background of age is, racism isn't ok, isn't cute and isn't excusable. If she were to take a sensitivity class, read a book about slavery, something to give her some personal insight, empathy and understanding, rather than looking at slavery as the good ol days with rose coloured glasses and feeling that it was a great thing for her family and that slaves were great and useful. She needs her whole perspective changed on it and realise that treating human beings like cattle, work horses, mules, was a sick disgusting abomination against God and Nature and that we have to do everything possible to eradicate the old ideas, prejudices and most especially using the n word as the most horrible name any person every spoke to another. That word debases, shames, humiliates and categorizes human beings as machines with chidren's or animals minds. It's the worst word on the planet, imho. I don't care how much she grovels, sniffles, cries, whines, mea culpas, I think that she's a slavery sympathizer and is completely ignorant and unwilling to see the depths of hell that slaves went through, white masters visiting slave quarters in the middle of the night and raping their wives, children and spouses bought and sold to far away locations. The hell on earth that black people have gone through in this country, and to say " I'm sorry, I have made mistakes..." shows how her head is still firmly entrenched up her own ass.
ReplyDeleteYesssss! Slow clap of approval!
Delete@anna - I agree with her not comin back from this... I see a spiral for Paula Deen now, she's got issues and this may push her over the edge. I wasn't a fan before, she made me cringe.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad her son Bobby still has his show! He is beyond FINE!!!!!! :-)
ReplyDelete@anna - I agree with her not comin back from this... I see a spiral for Paula Deen now, she's got issues and this may push her over the edge. I wasn't a fan before, she made me cringe.
ReplyDeleteTexas Rose...yeah we don't watch the food network cuz ya know....food is only for white folks. Wtf??? So what you're really saying is that primarily a bunch of racist rednecks watch the food network??? So these rednecks fit Paula Deen shows in between KKK meetings, drafting hate propaganda, and burning crosses. Fascinating concept Texas Rose. I was never enlightened to the fact that Rednecks enjoyed activities that didn't include fear or hate mongering and to think that people of such a low social and intellectual status enjoy fine dining shows on the food network is ....shocking! Good for them!
ReplyDeleteWay to evolve.... Now if these Rednecks would only start watching Bravo Channel or Project Runway and find a new design for those hooded uniforms they might be able to move at least into the 20th century...... Baby steps....I know. God forbid I suggest that these Redneck people watch the History Channel! Those channels are for smart folks!! Evolution of the neanthradal happens one step at a time.....
The largest demographic for the food network is white females over 65. You can check it out online. No offense to black viewers. That was the point I was trying to make. One of the reasons we cannot have an intelligent conversation about race in this country is as soon as you challenge a pc concept or don't accept what may be a radical position you are labeled a racist. That only leaves the most pc commenters to decide what is right.
ReplyDelete@Texas Rose 'the largest segment of their viewership is women over 65 simply isn't the same as black people don't watch___. It is probably what you wished you wrote-being called out on an ignorant statement may sting your ego but if you want to have an intelligent discussion take a second to write intelligently
Delete@lelale-Couldn't agree with you more.
Delete@lelale @ kgirl
Deleteyes it was wrong to generalize like that but Magnus above is saying white people think it's ok to use the n word. Isn't that a generalization? Or are you just going to cherry pick?
@Ana: Good Lord WOMAN! Utilize the ENTER key. PLEASE! Pretty please?? Pretty please w/ sugar on it??????
ReplyDeleteI know nothing of the story, except what headlines state. I just figure that all of these "brand name" life and style people treat subordinates like shit no matter their color. They learned it by watching Martha.
Oh, and I stopped watching cooking shows when the Frugal Gourmet was outted as a kid toucher. Ruined the genre for me.
@kgirl: Nuh uh. Maybe you forgot to register with the cable company as black. After I checked a box saying I am single and straight, they blocked my access to Bravo. Now I'm never gonna know what sparked Frederik and Luis's fight.
A freakin men to the first comment re: Anna
DeleteThe frugal gourmet was a child molester?!? Damn...my childhood has just been ruined. I loved that show
DeleteI think I've had enough of Magnus 21 Gunz - you are just too brilliant. I will leave you to your own debate= goodbye.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure she's getting millions of fan letters full of praise and adoration from the racists in this country who've seem to have clawed their way out of the closet in the past several years. The good news is, they love the fried, highfat fare she's peddling so eventually they'll be dropping like flies.
ReplyDeleteI don't think she'll come back from this. Her reputation took a big hit over her announcement that she had diabetes and then took a big endorsement deal from a pharmaceutical company. Her apologies were terrible---textbook examples of how not to handle a situation like this. I think she could have saved herself if she had gone on the Today show and talked about her growing up in the South and her acceptance of endemic racism and her realization of how wrong it was. The racism with the hypocrisy involving her diabetes was just too much. Read her deposition---she comes across as very insincere and "so what?".
ReplyDeleteTexas Rose ...so your saying white women over 65 have racist tendencies. I don't understand the point of your statement. You should've said that instead of saying blacks don't watch food network....that was an ignorant statement.
ReplyDeleteI can't stand Paula Deen for many reasons. Hiring black people to "play" a being slaves for some for a wedding some moron has dreamed up harking to the good ol days...abhorrent. However...if her original (original) explanation about using N***** is truthful, she has a point. She is oldish. And that word was commonplace in the south 50 years ago, even amongst so - called "good" people. She was asked under oath if she had EVER used that word. There are many, many people who are older who at one time used offensive terminology and then changed when those terms became socially untenable. Not so very long ago people used the term retarded to refer to Downs and other mentally disabled. How many of you, under oath would have to cop to having used that or fag EVER in your life. My point is, if she said these things 50 (whatever) years ago, bad apology aside, I think it's wrong to vilify her for what is, effectively societies mistake. There are so many other things to dislike her for.
ReplyDelete(On the other hand, if she is still using that term...forget everything I just wrote)
If I recall correctly, not all that long ago she found out that her ancestors owned slaves because of that celebrity genealogy show Who Do You Think You Are. I hope that knowledge and this overwhelmingly negative public reaction will force her and her family to make a sincere effort to be better people and better employers.
ReplyDeleteLol@lola.... This is true we all are not PC at times. But this all came out because she is being sued for calling her employees the n-word on several occasions and just as recent as last Christmas.
ReplyDeleteUsing it any day is horrible but to call somebody the n-word on Christmas!!! That's just cold blooded! Lol
Sorry, but this woman is so ridiculous and out of touch that I have to laugh at her...and I'm black!
I just hope the fired Manager gets the financial and moral justice they seek. Moral, definitely. Bravo to that lawyer getting her to admit it.
ReplyDelete@magnus...she is a disgusting person, no argument. But, she is actually being sued because she is the co-owner of her restaurant where her brother (not her) is accused of racial and sexual harassment. She reportedly did nothing when told about what HE was doing. She is incidentally accused (and I mean that legally) accused of making "racially insensitive" jokes. She not being sued for calling anyone anything at Christmas (or for calling anyone anything at all).
ReplyDeleteThere are many reasons to dislike her but, as I stated above, who here, under oath, would be able to say they have NEVER said anything that would be considered abhorrent today? Even if at one time it was considered perfectly normal and acceptable?
Thank God you can laugh at it. Maybe we're going about this all wrong. Laugh at racists like they're Simple Jack. Anything to hasten the demise of that ugliness.
ReplyDeleteLook I'm oldish ( mid 50) white woman from the south and I have NEVER called someone the N word. Everyone knows it's wrong. End of story.
Ha ha ha! You have aids! Your dog has cancer. Ha ha ha! You're fat and have a huge butt! Ha ha ha! Laughing at shit does not negate it, make it harmless or funny. It is just not cool. No exceptions.
DeleteI said laugh at RACISTS stupidity. Butt Smears you're an ass. And an idiot.
DeleteHoly crap? You can be sued for insensitive jokes? I'm fucked.
ReplyDeleteThis is much ado about nothing. She told the truth under oath that she had used the N word, but doesn't tolerate it's use now. That makes her honest about her upbringing but not necessarily a racist. The press blows things up when it's a slow news day.
ReplyDeleteBut of course, all you self-righteous politically correct people have NEVER done anything wrong and admitted it....right?
I don't care for her but dammit we live in a country that guarantees our right to speak whatever words we want, even if they make someone cringe.
@Sherry...but have you ever said fag, retarded, oriental, Chink... the list goes on. All words that were common, socially acceptable terms at one time. We are all products of our time and circumstances. It doesn't make us bad people or even bigoted people (necessarily) it means we are a product of our environment. Hopefully, as we grow and learn, both individually and societally, we move on from words that hurt people and condemn the use of those words; but to condemn people for a past when what they said was acceptable is not fair.
ReplyDeleteWtf do you have lurking in your past?
Delete@Count...just don't ever become famous.
ReplyDelete(I suppose infamous would still be okay.)
BUTTER!!!
ReplyDeleteThis is blantant racism. So there's really nothing for me to say. We all know the n word is not pc. We all know the slave thing is not pc. Who the fuck cares?
ReplyDeleteWhat we need to be addressing is CAUSAL racism. Paula's racism is racism we can ALL agree on. It's the racism that some of us seem to not see that really needs to be addressed. So idk about her.
Count- you are so screwed. Ha.
ReplyDeleteLola- I agree with everything you have stated. It will be very interesting to see if she bounces back. I do get the impression that she's being used as a poster child for the PC police.
Public figure, watch what u say. period
ReplyDeleteif that's your beliefs, fine
keep ya mouth shut and don't fuck up ya money
From reading the deposition transcripts it's pretty clear to me she doesn't see that her actions are wrong. She has an ignorant, boys will be boys attitude.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad The Food Network let her go.
(chuckle) Never liked her...especially her bullshit play as a whore for big pharma, but regarding this matter, [yawn]. Who cares? I long for the day when people can come out of the closet and be honest that they don't like everyone else for whatever reason. I can honestly say that I wouldn't piss on 99% of humanity if they were on fire and begging for a drink of water. I like who I like, and everyone else can take a flying fuck...especially some of the self righteous d-bags posting here (wink, wink...Magnus).
ReplyDeleteThe bottom-line takeaway on this whole thing?
ReplyDeleteLie under oath.
Omg, Selena - I'm glad you said this because I was totally thinking it. I mean she said this shit 20 years ago and apologized. Do you guys think all of your beloved celebrities have mouths pure as the driven snow? She was just telling the truth under oath and is being flamed!! And for the record, I do not support what she said at all!
ReplyDelete@Lola... The full deposition states that both she and her brother engaged in calling the emp. The N word. You can read it here. http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/06/entertainment/deen-deposition/?hpt=hp_t1
ReplyDeleteIt also states that her and her brother told a joke to the employee asking what kind of gifts do Niggers give each other on Christmas? Punchline....Whatever they can steal. Isn't that hilarious??!? WTF
It was never acceptable in the past... It was only acceptable to white people. No black person ever accepted being called a N-gger. Just as no Gay person ever accepted being called a F-ggot, or a Chinese person a Chink, or a slow person a retard. It was LOOSELY TOLERATED BECAUSE THERE WAS NO CONSEQUENCE AND EVEN A BACKLASH IF YOUR REPORTED OR TRIED TO STAND UP FOR YOURSELF....BUT IT WAS NOT ACCEPTED.
The Native Americans have a problem with the team name the Redskins because they say its offensive. Many Americans say it isn't. But the person doing the offending doesn't get to set the bar on what's offensive. That's illogical. Thats the mentality and basis of Paula's argument.
How about black people run around and start calling whites Crackers, Savages, Cavemen, etc. By the first amendment we could...but there would be consequences.
Whereas there were virtually no consequences for the verbal assaults and slanders for whites to demean another race back then. What you are saying is that no consequences=acceptable behavior
So if there isn't a law against it... It's ok. In certain countries its ok to cut off a woman's genatalia if she disrespects her husband. So because that is an acceptable practice does that make it right???... Or even civilized???
The Civil Rights movement was about Blacks trying to get Whites to act........ CIVIL. WE HAD TO GET A LAW PASSED TO GET FOLKS LIKE PAULA DEEN TO ACT IN A CIVIL MANNER. IF THEY WEREN'T BEING CIVIL THEN THEY WERE...............SAVAGES. And apparently it was acceptable to be a savage back then according to Paula Deen.
This is why this whole thing is hilarious to me. It's not even offensive to me any more because the people that use those words and MEAN it, are just showing me how inferior and uncivilized they really are. Lol
Bottom line... We all need to resolve to not act like savages. SOME MORE THAN OTHERS! Sure we may all slip up in some way, but the regular savage behavior becomes part of your character.....which then representative of WHO YOU ARE.
And most of us would agree with you. That's why it's not a big deal. We all know whats politically correct to say. When people say faggot they know EXACTLY what it means. Thays why they say it- to envoke people like you. Don't let them win. Let Paula say nigger and look stupid. As a black person, I dont have to say shit. This speaks for itself.
DeleteQuite right Kels. It appears it has to be spelled out for some people.
Delete@The ....You must be offended by my redneck comments. Sorry, (in my Paula Deen Voice). :) :) :)
ReplyDeleteHer apology and any b.s. attack on political correctness are a cowardly attempt to cover a deep-seated and willful ignorance.
ReplyDeleteBut wait, perhaps it is possible to be so dense that you can believe what she did really is the equivalent of calling someone the "cootie girl" when you were seven.
Let the racist fat pig drown in her own bacon grease. Who gives a fuck about Paula Deen?
ReplyDeleteWait... So I imagined all the black kids calling me honky & cracker growing up in a recently integrated neighborhood in the late 60's/early 70's? What a relief to know that never happened. Thanks Magnus!
ReplyDelete@Magnus, I thought that was very well said.
ReplyDeleteMagnus, please do not put words in my mouth about what I am saying because I was clear about it being unacceptable. And no matter what you, I, or any group of people may have thought at the time, yes, it WAS acceptable, societally speaking to use those terms. Until recent history, the term retarded was a scientific term referring specifically to people with functional IQs below 70. Hell, until a couple of years ago the major advocacy group for developmentally disabled used "Retarded" in their name. You yourself, point out that abhorrent things are often "acceptable" to a society (your reference to genital mutilation). And frankly, laws don't make people speak civilly (the civil rights amendment did nothing to make offensive words illegal) it is societal pressure and recognition of the hurtful nature of words that does so.
ReplyDeleteAnd clearly there are many black people even today who have and do accept being called the "n" word (hello rap music) just because you don't accept it doesn't mean it's so.
Furthermore, I stand by my original correction of your statement of what she was being sued for. She is not being sued for what she said in her deposition. I have just now read the entire deposition and will say that you clearly have not. The deposition states nothing of the kind. She is asked if she and her no other ever called employees n******. She states in the negative. Also, again having now actually read the entire transcript, the wedding with slaves was completely misrepresented and was not at all what she said. The deposition also says nothing about n******* and Christmas. She is asked whether or not her brother has ever made offensive jokes. Nothing specific answered or given.
Paula by no means argues in her deposition that the person doing the offending gets to set the bar on offensiveness or lack thereof. In fact she says something to the effect that she tries to refer to blacks in the manner they (meaning blacks) find acceptable at the time.
And not all Indians (including my family) care about teams being named things like Redskins. (Incidentally, as someone of native American descent, I'm very amused at the use of the word "Savages" and "savage" refer to people who may be saying things you deem offensive and the way they may behave. Not offended...just amused. It is a perfect example of not seeing our own prejudices and that we all say things that offend people.
God...now I have just spent an inordinate amount of time defending someone I loathe. Sigh.
Why bother then? Or are you defending your own past? I'm over 30. I NEVER remember a time it was okay to call ANYONE (even with an I.Q under 72, which by the way is the cut off for an I. D classification) or THAT word.
DeleteAs an outsider (not an American) we find Ms Deen laughable and her cooking REVOLTING. She does nothing to dispel the old "amuricans shove anything greased and deep fried down their talk holes" image. She's racist. There'd be no coming back from that here. She can't cook. She looks like Peter Ustinov in drag and she's a money grubbing antebellum old school racist. She makes my skin crawl and my kidneys hurt.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that Paula Deen's comeback is a slam-dunk. She doesn't have any real cooking talent (her recipes are GAWD-AWFUL!), and there's nothing genuine about her. Her career is a house of cards, and what's left is really not enough to support an empire.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, anyone who thought for a second that neither Paula Deen nor anyone in her circle NEVER said N or called anyone a N has been very naive.
ReplyDeleteLook who she is and where she's from, y'all!
Everyone has come a LONG way--give credit where it's due. But it's still gonna take a couple more generations for people to stop the usage.
Same as with almost anyone who ever went to Elementary through High School in the 60s, 70s, and 80s (who was not gay or mentally challenged) to stop using Gay or Fag or Retard in an off-the-cuff manner. It's what was said. It's how kids cracked on each other. Give people time to evolve.
Same for any Catholic in my family to stop slagging on any other religion, and now the fucking Gov't wants us ALL to hate Muslims.
Think about it. It IS getting better all the time, but be patient--it's a REALLY uphill battle!
Y'all! Racism is okay if you've got a southern drawl y'all!
DeleteThe son(s) named in the lawsuit should be let go, as well. I despise everything about their family.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't call the absolute prohibition of the use of the N word political correctness. Is is politically correct to not call a woman the C word? Those two words are the nuclear weapons of insults & everybody understands the consequences of using them. Pretending you don't isn't a good excuse.
ReplyDeleteLola.. I understand your point, however, my point is that the people whites were offending back then were not included in society so to speak (no voting rights, no civil (society) rights). Society at that time consisted of white men. So to call it acceptable in society means it was acceptable to whites. There is no way around that.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, I do not condone the use of the word nigger by blacks nor whites. However, I will note that most blacks know that NIGGER DERIVED FROM THE WORD NIGER which means black. Europeans mispronounced and spelled the word and put a negative connotation to that word centuries ago. Hence, it is your INTENT when you use that word, that is the problem.
The use of the word savages, was a BEHAVIOR trait that was used to describe people or cultures that were not civilized. And like you I'm amused that other races were called savages by white people during a time when white people were committing blatant savagery. And if you don't think its not savage to castrate, burn, and hang a human being in public for no good reason at all then this dialogue between us must end.
Secondly, @I cant believe its not butter ...I never said blacks don't call white people crackers, etc....we do. But we, AS A RACE don't have a HISTORY OF KILLING, HUMILIATING, AND OFFENDING WHITE PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE. so if that happened to you, I feel bad. Now imagine dealing with that type of treatment over hundreds of years.....
Your experience is not the experience of your race as a whole...it is individual.
@BringingUglyBack... I said SOME white people think its ok......not all. if I knew every white person who uses the n word by name I would identify them specifically but I don't have that type of time..LOL.
Oh yes and Lola, You are right, I read the entire deposition, no mention of the joke. That was an Lil tid bit added by another news site I was reading but not part of the deposition.
ReplyDeleteI hated her from the moment I found out that she waited several years to announce her type 2-diabetes, until she had the pharmacy deal and became it's spokesperson. Until the announcement, she continued her high fat, high sugar recipes, including a kid's cookbook that recommended cheesecake for breakfast. Hypocritical bitch.
ReplyDeleteShe'll be back, it's not like what she said was homophobic. Now taking about that group will get you blacklisted. She'll go on the apology tour & mainstream will love her again.
ReplyDeleteThe term savage refers to a violent, brutal action.
ReplyDeleteIn the modern vernacular, Savages generally is derogatory term for people and cultures we deem inferior to ours, i. e. Native Americans. In the U. S., "savages" has almost always been associated with Native Americans. Personally, I could care less about your (or anyone else's) use of it. I just found it ironic that you used a derogatory (yet socially acceptable) term to make your point about how horrible people who use derogatory terms are (even if that use was during a time when such use was socially acceptable).
Society may very well have been "white" when many terms were socially acceptable but, despite your protestations otherwise, those were terms used within the black community as well (and not just n***** but darkie, colored, etc.) even into the relatively modern era (certainly into the 70s). In any case it is moral relativism to look back and essentially say, "well, people should have known those terms would come to be considered bigoted" and therefore shouldn't have used them. "
As I say all of this, I realize that our reaction to these words is often emotional rather than logical. It is also the reason, even here, people get up in arms even at perceived bigotry and are quick to see it even when it doesn't exist.
Interestingly, I forgot to add earlier that the woman suing Deen and her brother is white.
LL Cool J and Brad Paisley have a solution. After all, they cured racism over pizza.
ReplyDeleteEh, so what--she's a racist old white lady from the south. We all know someone like her somewhere. Embarrassing, backwards, yes--but not raping or murdering anyone.
ReplyDelete...which is much more than I can say for some of those awful Hollywood pedophiles and sexual predators whose crimes are covered up and who continue to make millions a year.
Lola...are you Native American or of Native American ancestry? I'm curious.
ReplyDeleteSavage is a description of a BEHAVIOR. If I called you nosey that would be calling you by the BEHAVIOR you are displaying. Bid I called you Nice it would be because of the behavior displayed...well the Same thing for my use of the word Savage.
What is the behavior associated with being a nigger, or a chink, or a spic???? There is No descriptive behavior associated with those words. But these words are used to describe races of people with little regard to their culture or the behavior they displayed.
The white people called the Native Americans savages but yet the Native Americans were the ones that taught them how to cook, heal and survive in the new land. There was no basis to call Native Americans savages other than the fact that their culture was different from theirs. You can't call them savages for scalping, because we now know the Jamestown settlers were cannibals... How much more savage can you get?
I called people savage based on the behavior that was displayed...not as an insult. And I have proof so.. It is what it is.....
Lets also keep in mind that you had multiple generations of people forcibly separated fom their culture, having to learn to read and write in another language with no schooling. Those people only could refer to themselves as they were called because those that spoke in their native language were either killed or severely beaten. It was a matter of survival.
And furthermore...it is the INTENT. I can call my best friend my Bitch. But if someone else calls her a bitch she would be upset because the intent behind it was different and the RELATIONSHIP is clearly different.
Surely we know that as a race the relations between blacks and whites is not so comfortable that a white person can call me a nigger and I'd consider it a term of endearment.
The woman filing the lawsuit being white is of no relevance to me. In fact I figured she was white because she did not file a discrimination suit which she clearly could've if she was the subject of the things she witnessed.
And perceived bigotry is still bigotry. PERCEPTION IS REALITY. However, it's just YOUR reality not everyone else's. I guess everyone really does live in their own world to an extent.
That's why it's good to have conversations like this and hear other people's point of view ...even if we don't agree on everything.
Oh my god. There are people on here defending this woman? Probably defending their own sordid past. I'm gen Y. I KNOW certain terms and words are offensive - I went to a very multicultural school where racist slogans were bandied around. And references to people with an I.D. It never made it right, or okay just because people used them. This makes me ill because if you need to defend it, you've done something wrong. Unless you lived on a plantation called Tara, and had a petticoat, you have no valid reason to have uttered this word. Even Scarlett O'hara would be deplorable for such a statement, even though it may have been culturally acceptable. This has held a very big and murky mirror up to American society and people don't like it.
ReplyDeleteI was always given to understand that, while it's OK for people in a given group to use various terms amongst themselves, it's not OK for an outsider to do so. Perhaps the politest example I can give is hearing people of Irish extraction referring to each other as "micks" (well, technically I could go there, being part Irish myself...); I've heard Italians refer to each other as "spics" and "wops", gay men call each other "fags", etc., etc., etc. It's like dealing with your family, in a way--you can all talk smack about each other amongst yourselves, whether in an insulting or a humorous way, but if anyone else dares say the same thing, God help them...Really, isn't a lot of what gets called "PC" simply good manners? Treating people the way you'd want them to treat you, and all that Golden Rule stuff?
ReplyDeleteSomething I do have a problem with is trying to "whitewash" history, literature, etc. by banning things that are offensive now; the chief example I'm thinking of here is Huckleberry Finn. Yes, the book slings the word "n_____" around freely, and yes, it's wrong, but those who would ban the book should keep this in mind: (1) we need to remember what was said and done in the past, so that we don't forget the bad things that happened and risk them happening again ("those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it"), and (2) one of the main points in the book is that Huck comes to realize that even though Jim is a poor, uneducated slave, the way he's being treated is wrong, and that Jim is by far a much better person, and more of a real man, than his "superiors". (Remember the passage where Huck wrestles with his conscience over whether or not to try and help Jim escape? Everything he's ever been taught, including his religious training, tells him that helping a slave escape is against both the social order and God's wishes, but he finally decides that Jim deserves better, and he's willing to risk being damned and going to hell if that's what it takes to help Jim, because the latter deserves to be free and safe. People need to get over being angry at the language used, and get to the heart of the work, because that's what's important about the book.)
Told you that B.A. in English would be good for something, now didn't I? ;-)
Good for a verbose validation of racism? You betcha!
DeleteThis is insane. No, not that people are offended by her casual use of the word "nigger". But that people can't say the word "nigger" even when discussing why it's offensive, or the historical origins of the term. Right now, I'm not saying the word "nigger" to shock or offend, but to raise the point, much like Samuel L. Jackson did, that as long as people treat it almost like the utterance of the word in public would cause the fabric of the universe to rupture, that people are never ever going to be able to get beyond it, nor discuss it like mature adults. This is a word with such ridiculous amount of sway over society that blogs won't block out "cunt", "fuck" or "shit", they won't block "redskin", "chink", "spic" or "peckerwood" but they will star out or block posts that spell out "nigger". So long as you grant the word such a ridiculous amount of power, it will never fade away.
ReplyDeleteSpike Gomes wins.
ReplyDelete@BSmears
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, if people aren't on the mobile site, no one can tell whom you're speaking to.
Insofar as your comments to me...
Just because I can make a coherent argument as to why Deen is being vilified for something she didn't say and for something she said during a time in our history when it was socially acceptable to say something doesn't mean I'm hiding anything, it means I understand the term moral relativism. You obviously don't. You might also want to do a little research into the term retarded. It has been used as a psychological diagnosis for many years (mental retardation). And it was the name of the main advocacy group for people under that diagnosis until 2006. You may be in your 30s and YOU may not remember it (which, not incidentally, I'm not sure why you would...since you aren't American) but trust me, there was a time when retard and retarded was bandied about pejoratively (and commonly) for quite a long time. Fag/queer was the same way. While we can, from our position, see that is clearly wrong, when society is accepting of a term its discriminatory nature is very difficult or impossible to recognize. 20/20 hindsight is a glorious and often self righteous thing (see: moral relativism).
Finally, I will point out that in a respectful debate, saying things like, "what do you have in your past" etc., because you disagree with the argument is all but invoking Godwin's Law (look it up if you don't know) and only highlights your inability to format a coherent rebuttal. Unfortunately in our knee jerk pc society we are quick to see offense where it just doesn't exist (and quicker still to attack those that point out how sensitive we have become). Just because I defend her on this point doesn't mean I do or don't think she's racist (she very likely is). It also doesn't mean that I agree with her. It merely means that I am able to logically separate this argument from the whole.
To Magnum...respectfully, it has been enjoyable debating this with you and I mean that sincerely but it is late and skeletons or no, I am off to bed. But as to your question: I am of approximately 1/3 Cherokee ancestry. My grandmother was full blooded and suffered some of the most horrific discrimination and abuse at the hands of (white) people that you can imagine. I know from first hand accounts what she and my ancestors suffered. But I consider myself white. And while I mourn for what my grandmother went through and the things that were done to her in early 20th century Oklahoma, I choose to recognize that people are products of their times and that as wrong as it was the things that were done to her were largely done as a sick way of "helping" her get past who she was. Was it right? No. But I say that from a place in history where we recognize that one man, one race, is not inherently better, smarter, whatever, than another. From this position, I can only condemn those who refuse to learn the lessons of history and I can only assume that many years from now we too will be condemned for actions and words we have yet to see the bigotry in. Each generation believes that they are more just than those before it and history keeps coming along to make liars of us all.
She's toast. She's not coming back from this. Just look at Michael Richards from Seinfield, have seen him in anything lately? Even Jerry couldn't help him out. No one will endorse this broad, or want to be associated with her.
ReplyDelete@lola: Each generation believes that they are more just than those before it and history keeps coming along to make liars of us all.
ReplyDeleteTrurer words have rarely been spoken. Thank you.
This has been a very interesting discussion on race, language and society. And while certain terms such as retarded or oriental may have been used in the past, looking at things from a historical context, only one group of people called an offensive name were the subject of lynching postcards at one point in this countries history.
ReplyDeleteThe National Guard was never called out to prevent Asians, Orientals or Chinks from integrating schools in southern states nor were 4 little WOP girls blown up in a church while attending Sunday school in the south.
I suppose my point is that while inappropriate or offensive language has been more acceptable at one point in our history or another by certain members of society, one word brings back memories of degradation, destruction and violence towards one group of people in the US. Emmitt Till didn't get murdered,(only to have the two men who killed him go scott free and then turn around and sell their stories to national magazines for thousands, which was a fortune in the 50's,)for being a fag, chink, spic , mic or retarded. I think everyone can figure out what they called him repeatedly while torturing him before shooting him in the head and dumping him in the river! Nope, retard didn't come from their mouths once I'm sure.
@kate: Well, it says the boys were teens, so I guess he lived by the whole "Grass on the field" rule.
ReplyDeletehere is a link
and another
This whole thing has been edifying. America in the 21st century has become a nation in which a highly vocal minority of white people still cling to the past, believing that somehow "being white" makes them better than other people. It shows up in really stupid ways, generally obese fools making stupid comments about Hispanic or black people. When the stupid white racists are condemned, it's like a cupboard door has opened and all kinds of fools pour out, minimizing and "justifying" whatever racist language the other dumb white people use.
ReplyDeleteThe good thing is, it's changing. Every year, the march of history crushes white supremacist power, and we will in our lifetime come to see a time in which human decency triumphs over racist stupidity. It's kind of painful to watch a big Butterball of ignorance like Deen get trampled in the process (I do, after all, love her cooking), but it's for the best.
All due respect to all of you, but so many of you are making fun of/using hateful words toward overweight people, and I'm just wondering how that language is any better than Paula Deen's words?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, here's a link that may be of interest: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/paula-deen-fans-defend-n-word-article-1.1380232
@Susan: Any conversation about race issues is going to be rife with hypocrisy and denial about it.
ReplyDelete