Michelle Williams posed for "Another Magazine," dressed in "redface" above. Do you consider this racist? Is this any different than posing in blackface?
It's tacky and stupid. Racist? It doesn't really articulate a theory of racial hierachy with white supremacist foundations. It doesn't really convey a lot of respect for native people, though.
Doesn't seem to be a big deal. Next thing you know, we are going to have to worry about what halloween costumes we wear bc we may be insulting a group by dressing as a cowboy, indian, cop, fireman, playboy bunny.....etc. Enough already, the only thing that makes these things racist is when it is making fun of a group, a simple costume does not count.
This is going to be my one comment on this thread, because these topics always blow the F up here. As a person of Ojibwe heritage, I do not see this as different from blackface and I feel that it's wrong. I will not accept that I need to "lighten up" about the topic.
Never heard of this mag. Apparently it's a high-end fashion and culture magazine. Here's their own synopsis of the issue: AnOther Mag. From that, I would guess that she's actually portraying Pocahontas. So in that case, it's no more offensive than when Annie Liebowitz does the Disney spreads every year (as in not at all offensive)
Amber, I was hoping a native american would comment. Also I want to ask, I know lots don't mind being "Indian" and that's what they call themselves while having a good laugh about how stupid the whites were for thinking they got to India, while others prefer Native American. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
It's offensive. Being ethic is not a freaking costume! But I guess if it doesn't apply to you you wouldn't think it was a big deal. Sad people can't see past their own color...
Blackface is offensive because it is one group of people mocking another group of people after a history of abuse, discrimination stealing from them, stereotyping them and just mistreatment in general. Redface is different because white people never treated Native Americans in such a way. Oh, wait....
@Katie Cunningham: Next thing you know, we are going to have to worry about what halloween costumes we wear bc we may be insulting a group by dressing as a cowboy, indian, cop, fireman, playboy bunny...
There is already a big campaign re: how cultures are not costumes. I get what they're saying--most of these 'ethnic' costumes are insulting stereotypes. I do think there are people who don ethnic clothing with respectful intent (I have done this). I don't think it's (pardon the expression) black or white. There are shades of grey.
(So I guess I agree with you; it comes down to intent.)
I cant imagine why on earth anyone would do this, dress in redface. Its weird, pointless and offensive. The person who does this stuff may not mean ill will, but it is interpretted that way so just dont do it.
I'm Indian and this p*es me off. Yes, it's racist. Michelle Williams is a little blond, dressing up like Pocohontas for high fashion? P* off.
But you know, sports teams can get away with "Redskins" but you'll never hear of the New York Kikes or the Atlanta Negroes. I mentioned this once to someone and he said, SMH, you're offended at being associated with strong, powerful men? (And that's why I hate the term SMH, because of him.) Yeah, that's totally it.
@msgirl - Yeah, "I'll say "Indian" in a context where I'm mocking or making a joke about something. I personally would prefer at the very least for people to say "Native American". That's not totally accepted, though. IDEALLY, I think, many would like to be referred to by their specific heritage as many are so different from one another. i.e. Someone who is "European" would more specifically be German, Italian, etc. My friend's husband is Ghanian (actually from Ghana), and refers to himself as such - not "African".
@msgirl I'm Cherokee, and I use the term Indian and see nothing wrong with non-natives using that word. Indian is short for indigenous. Nothing offensive about that.
Indian is NOT short for indigenous. Christopher Columbus thought he was in India when he came to America, hence why he called the people there Indians.
I'm Native American (Cherokee) and I'm offended. The only reason the magazine ran this photo was to stir up controversy and, hopefully, increase sales. Disgusting.
Then, again, I keep hoping our local baseball team (Cleveland Indians) will change their name and mascot.
I'm kind of torn on this; they had her dress up as eight different characters, including Pocohontas. I don't think that their intent was racist, but I also think that the end result is.
What gets on my nerves is how Africa is referred to as a country. Africa is a CONTINENT, not a COUNTRY!
Back on topic:
This picture is stupid. Clearly the idea of some so-called 'cultured' person with no real concept of cultural awareness. It's not the worst offense I've seen, but it is not a good look at all.
Indians are from India. It isn't short for anything that I know of. I also don't understand those who say American Indian when referring to Native Americans. They aren't Indian!
I am 1/8 Mingo and 1/8 Eastern Band Cherokee. I have no problem with it, or the word Indian. My best friend in high school was Lakota and she has lived on the rez since she graduated high school, and she thinks all the fuss about Indian vs Native is stupid. I emailed her this pic, and she doesn't see anything offensive about it, either.
You ask 1000 people, you'll get a thousand answers. 1 person cannot speak for an entire culture.
It's not like she has on a beaded suede dressand a baby in a papoose. Indians have the lock on braids, plaid flannel and feathers - noted. No one seems to get out of whack when Beyonce releases a Loreal ad where she's been turned white. This was some stupid photo shoot for an obscure (at least as far as I've never, ever heard of it) magazine. Get over it!
@PuggleWug - Well, Russel Means (founder of AIM), actually preferred "American Indian" because it puts the "American" first.
I think the best thing anyone can do with anyone culturally different from them is be respectful, and also ask them their preference if it's appropriate. If it's a person you're meeting in passing, there's not necessarily a reason their heritage needs to be a focus so I wouldn't make it one.
It goes to intent. Blackface was intended to denigrate an ethnicity and a culture. This "redface", or whatever you want to call it, doesn't appear to do either. Williams is from Montana, so maybe she thinks this is referring to her home state, such as the caption says.
I say Native American on forms and in discussions, but growing up, we always said we were Indian, not Native American or as in Canada, First Nations. I don't care if someone calls me Indian, but they don't usually because in our area, there are a lot of people from India and it would just be a bit confusing. All them brown people look alike, right? :b
this is my first day since I discovered this site about 6 months ago that I actually have all kinds of time to comment. This is fun. :)
I haven't seen the great and powerful oz yet so maybe I am missing something but how is being dressed as an Indian relevant to anything in her life or movies right now?
I'm also Native American (Choctaw), and while I try to have a good sense of humor about this stuff, I hate this cover. It's not like this is just another hilariously misguided attempt at a white homage to our cultures. Dressing up the whitest white actress out there like she's a sulky homeless Native girl and slapping a Pocahontas label on it is just a disgusting ploy to get in the news.
Jacq: there has been a LOT of discussion about Beyonce's whitening. I will also point out that Beyonce has taken heat for highlighting her Native American and French roots in these ads, though I think her mother is part Creole and that's where it comes in for her. I'm a little vague on that one. But there has been criticism.
Neil Young spent the 1st 10 years of his public life dressed like a native American and named his publishing company "Broken Arrow". Is he racist or is he interested in native American culture? Alison Brie is forever doing rapping for comic effect. Is she racist or is she a fan of African American hip hop?
I really don't see the problem. I've seen people walk around in clothing from all sorts of cultures. It only seems to be a problem when "minority groups" are involved. To me it's the intend that matters.
My High School mascot is the Indians... They have tried to change it to something more politically correct about every 5 yrs, but the family of the original native American who was the sports star that mascot was named for have fought against thr change for the past 50+ years as the original "Indian" was very proud and honored they chose Indian as the mascot. They feel strongly in this case that it was to honor him and argue that making a change would be disrespectful...
Since when does jeans, button up shirt and the cape you wear at the hair salon = any culture at all? Most of the white people in my home town wear that shirt and jeans combo, it's not uncommon to see a feather in a hat. Wth part of this whole weird getup says Indian/native? The braids? Certainly not the makeup, certainly not the cape, certainly not the clothes. So.... Feather?
I find it offfensive, I am not Indian I am Anishinnabe.. Watch the Nation Film Board docudrama "For Angela" it is available on-line, if you think this type of behaviour is harmless. Frankly Neil Young is forgiven because he went through his "Fringe" stage in the sixties..he hasn't slapped on the leather in years
@cathy & pugglewug-- India came from the word Indu which came from the Greek Endus, which means, guess what! indigenous. So while I guess I worded my statement wrong when I said Indian was short for indigenous, Indian is a term that had been used for indigenous people around the globe centuries before Columbus was even born.
The thing is Columbus was looking for India.when he hit present America,he thought the natives were Indians and called them such.it's a general public conception
So -- I guess their next cover will feature a white celebrity in "brownface" (sombrero, dressed as a maid or gardener) or "yellowface" (in a coolie hat, costumed as a nail salon worker or a math dweeb)?
I'm 1/4 Cherokee and in the context the photo was taken, I don't have a problem with it at all. Even before I knew the context, I was like...so she's NA because she has braids and an artfully placed feather? I don't really remember flannel shirts, jeans and what looks to be a silk, designer kimono being part of any tribe's traditional dress.
Insofar as the Indian/Native American thing...
It's not as if Columbus got here and said, "let's offend all of the native people." He believed he was in India. For that matter, the indiginous people of the North American continent didn't refer to themselves as "Native Americans" either so if we're all going to get offended maybe it should be about the fact that we all get lumped together and that no one bothers to call us by our traditional names in our native languages (no, I don't know the original native language form of "Cherokee"). For that matter, how is being refered to as "Indian" any worse than being characterized through a reference to the European explorer who "discovered" America (either Amerigo Vespucci or Richard Ameryk, depending on which version you want to believe). I hardly think the people populating this land would have said, "yeah...name us after a European."
On the other hand, I'm pretty hard to offend and I try very hard not to go specifically looking for offence, so there's that.
I'm white on white, so I can't really tell if it's offensive. I think we're more conditioned as a society to recognize racism and stereotypes on African Americans, but I don't think I'd be thrilled by this either. Couldn't she have just dressed up as an Indian, without the face paint?
My question is for the Native Americans of the board: What are your feelings about sports teams with "Indians" in their name? (Stew McG answered already)
I defer to native Americans in what they may deem offensive to their culture. And as pointed out, ask 1000 people you get 1000 different points of view.
She looks more like Katie Holmes (as mentioned!) than a Native America IMHO.
If it is an intentional take on Native American's then yeah, it's offensive. If it's simply a creative stylist just not thinking it through then no. Different from all angles.
@Mango, I don't really care. You could argue that they chose that name because Indians are viewed as strong, tenacious warriors. I think most teams choose names based on the perceived strength of the name. You don't see a whole lot of teams named "Koalas" or "Hula Dancers".
Part of my feelings about these things stem from (as some of you know) my grandmother's experience as a Cherokee Indian in mid century Oklahoma who got pregnant, out of wedlock, in her teens. There is a shit-ton of intentional bigotry out there that destroys people's psyches and their souls. There is bigotry out there that makes people pay for what should be a proud heritage. My grandmother wsa put in a mental institution and given daily electro-shock treatments to cure her of her whoring ways and her Indian sins. I have a hard time getting my panties in a wad over silly things.
Being American Indian, I'm wasn't even offended when I went to a Cowboy and Indian party for Halloween. FYI...I dressed up like a cowboy. I hope all the cowboys out there weren't offended.
A lot of people like to act like they're offended, just for attention. Being an Indian, I can tell you...it's flattering. I think the American Indian culture is beautiful, as are the people. I'd want to dress like them too. It's exotic.
When pornstars disguise as nurses, is it offending to medical community?
It would be racist if she were making out with a goat, or something racially insulting. No way just putting on Native American clothes and posing on a cover is racist, it's more a homage than anything else.
fucking art can't even be art anymore without someone getting butthurt.
was their malice involved? no.
so it's only ok for Victoria's Secret models to do it? my bff who is Chinese went as a leather and feather wearing Native American Indian for Halloween, is she racist? nope.
I find more offense in the tacky way she was dressed for this shoot .. Like all Rez girls run around in flannels and baggy jeans. I'm not offended , I just don't get what the concept is supposed to imply.
And yup JC there are a bunch of Indians on here. Up to 1/16 in my home state you receive benefits. How much black do you have to have in you to claim African American? Not being a dick.. excuse the pun here.. But I'm just curious
And I'm a proud Spokane Indian ( Norwegian on my fathers side ) . We say Indian and don't get people's obsession with the term American Indian .. It's kind of funny. I showed my ma this photo and asked her what she thought .. She said " that girl needs to learn how to smile " case closed in my book
Hey there, Montana folks! I have a friend from Missoula who claims that it's the most beautiful spot on Earth. Plus, Moose Drool, man. That stuff is killer.
The photo is not offensive, disrespectful or racist. The set-up in the post, calling it "redface" wants you to jump to that conclusion though. Jump! Jump higher!!
Considering brother Vick and his love for animals, I wonder if the animals lovers still get pissed off that a lotta Indians still consume animals for their essentials.
She's from Kalispell, in the Northwestern corner of Montana (I'm from Whitefish, 15 miles North). That part of the state butts up against two major reservations: the Flathead to the South and the Blackfeet to the East. It's hard to explain, but to many Montanans, this isn't racism. And having lived in the Deep South and now the Midwest, many people don't regard racism against Native Americans as racism. Native Americans are a marginalized voice in the sea of marginalized voices.
Like a bunch of others here, I am Native American. A card-carrying (literally) member of a Chippewa tribe. I receive benefits. My mother was born on the rez, though I wasn't. I don't personally have a preference between Native American or Indian, though it's obvious which I use more often (there is a high concentration of Indians from India in my area and it removes some confusion), and I don't give a hoot about sports teams or their mascots.
That cover is poorly thought out and made to get people talking, nothing more. It's not more offensive to have Michelle Williams dress in redface than it was to have Iron Eyes Cody, an Italian, do the same. It's definitely insensitive, and whether it's racist... Racism is in the eye of the beholder. YMMV.
LOL. I had to read the comments to find out what was going on because A. what redface? she looks cake maked. and B. Is "Out Now" I thought she was coming out of the closet! never heard of the Mag so why not? Don't see anything that says"takin a poke at Pocahantas" so where are the references to N.A.? Too confusing. Based ONLY on Enty's blurb, it doesn't bother me but then I'm of Irish heritage and St Paddy's day is coming. EVERYONE is Irish Then! Nothing like leprechauns and pots o' gold and green beer to honor a proud heritage that was treated like dirt when they arrived starving, off the boats.
@Jax if you knew the history of your metis heritage you'd be aware of Metis being a distinct Canadian Culture - not "part" First Nations. But, I suppose you'd fit in with the group who says "my great-great grandmother was a Cherokee." You obviously know very little about the First Nations/Metis issues right under your west coast nose.
@Jax if you knew the history of your metis heritage you'd be aware of Metis being a distinct Canadian Culture - not "part" First Nations. But, I suppose you'd fit in with the group who says "my great-great grandmother was a Cherokee." You obviously know very little about the First Nations/Metis issues right under your west coast nose.
It's tacky and stupid. Racist? It doesn't really articulate a theory of racial hierachy with white supremacist foundations. It doesn't really convey a lot of respect for native people, though.
ReplyDeleteit's just stupid. no other label required.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't seem to be a big deal. Next thing you know, we are going to have to worry about what halloween costumes we wear bc we may be insulting a group by dressing as a cowboy, indian, cop, fireman, playboy bunny.....etc. Enough already, the only thing that makes these things racist is when it is making fun of a group, a simple costume does not count.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to be my one comment on this thread, because these topics always blow the F up here. As a person of Ojibwe heritage, I do not see this as different from blackface and I feel that it's wrong. I will not accept that I need to "lighten up" about the topic.
ReplyDeleteLighten up....get over it...that was long ago....whitefolk
DeleteNever heard of this mag. Apparently it's a high-end fashion and culture magazine. Here's their own synopsis of the issue: AnOther Mag. From that, I would guess that she's actually portraying Pocahontas. So in that case, it's no more offensive than when Annie Liebowitz does the Disney spreads every year (as in not at all offensive)
ReplyDeleteWhite folks....what else is new.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you Amber -- I have Cree heritage and I don't feel that this is respectful at all. What purpose does it serve?
ReplyDeleteIt's a total WTF cover.
ReplyDeleteAmber, I was hoping a native american would comment. Also I want to ask, I know lots don't mind being "Indian" and that's what they call themselves while having a good laugh about how stupid the whites were for thinking they got to India, while others prefer Native American. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteBad idea on her part.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Barton and Redd. Tacky, stupid and disrespectful. And stupid. Did I say that already?
ReplyDeleteIt's racist. C'mon.
ReplyDeleteIt's offensive. Being ethic is not a freaking costume! But I guess if it doesn't apply to you you wouldn't think it was a big deal. Sad people can't see past their own color...
ReplyDeleteBlackface is offensive because it is one group of people mocking another group of people after a history of abuse, discrimination stealing from them, stereotyping them and just mistreatment in general. Redface is different because white people never treated Native Americans in such a way. Oh, wait....
ReplyDeleteDisclaimer: please note the sarcasm in this post.
It's just dumb as fuck. She looks foolish.
ReplyDeleteOh god Cathy - I started reading your comment and was like wincing with pain, until I read, "Oh, wait..." Good one!
ReplyDeleteHang on. For starters, why is she doing it? And yes, I find it racist.
ReplyDelete@Katie Cunningham:
ReplyDeleteNext thing you know, we are going to have to worry about what halloween costumes we wear bc we may be insulting a group by dressing as a cowboy, indian, cop, fireman, playboy bunny...
There is already a big campaign re: how cultures are not costumes. I get what they're saying--most of these 'ethnic' costumes are insulting stereotypes. I do think there are people who don ethnic clothing with respectful intent (I have done this). I don't think it's (pardon the expression) black or white. There are shades of grey.
(So I guess I agree with you; it comes down to intent.)
I cant imagine why on earth anyone would do this, dress in redface. Its weird, pointless and offensive. The person who does this stuff may not mean ill will, but it is interpretted that way so just dont do it.
ReplyDelete(And yes, this is WRONG. But they probably figure that bad publicity is still publicity. How many of you heard of this magazine before today?)
ReplyDelete@KLM - now I'm really glad that I included the disclaimer! :)
ReplyDeleteif it's racist,tacky or offensive,Halloween must disappear and Johnny Depp also
ReplyDeleteWTF.
ReplyDeleteI'm Indian and this p*es me off. Yes, it's racist. Michelle Williams is a little blond, dressing up like Pocohontas for high fashion? P* off.
But you know, sports teams can get away with "Redskins" but you'll never hear of the New York Kikes or the Atlanta Negroes. I mentioned this once to someone and he said, SMH, you're offended at being associated with strong, powerful men? (And that's why I hate the term SMH, because of him.) Yeah, that's totally it.
She should've dressed herself up as the joker with a syringe in one hand and a cord wrapped around her arm
ReplyDelete@msgirl - Yeah, "I'll say "Indian" in a context where I'm mocking or making a joke about something. I personally would prefer at the very least for people to say "Native American". That's not totally accepted, though. IDEALLY, I think, many would like to be referred to by their specific heritage as many are so different from one another. i.e. Someone who is "European" would more specifically be German, Italian, etc. My friend's husband is Ghanian (actually from Ghana), and refers to himself as such - not "African".
ReplyDelete@msgirl I'm Cherokee, and I use the term Indian and see nothing wrong with non-natives using that word. Indian is short for indigenous. Nothing offensive about that.
ReplyDeleteI don't find it offensive, but I'm not NA.
ReplyDeleteIndian is NOT short for indigenous. Christopher Columbus thought he was in India when he came to America, hence why he called the people there Indians.
ReplyDeleteGlad I'm not the only one who know that.
DeleteThis is a definite WTF were they thinking and doing! Bad bad bad.
ReplyDeleteThanks Amber and couriergrrrl!
ReplyDeleteI'm Native American (Cherokee) and I'm offended. The only reason the magazine ran this photo was to stir up controversy and, hopefully, increase sales. Disgusting.
ReplyDeleteThen, again, I keep hoping our local baseball team (Cleveland Indians) will change their name and mascot.
I'm kind of torn on this; they had her dress up as eight different characters, including Pocohontas. I don't think that their intent was racist, but I also think that the end result is.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I thought she was dressed in "Katie Holmes" face.
ReplyDeleteWhat gets on my nerves is how Africa is referred to as a country. Africa is a CONTINENT, not a COUNTRY!
ReplyDeleteBack on topic:
This picture is stupid. Clearly the idea of some so-called 'cultured' person with no real concept of cultural awareness. It's not the worst offense I've seen, but it is not a good look at all.
Indians are from India. It isn't short for anything that I know of. I also don't understand those who say American Indian when referring to Native Americans. They aren't Indian!
ReplyDeleteI am 1/8 Mingo and 1/8 Eastern Band Cherokee. I have no problem with it, or the word Indian. My best friend in high school was Lakota and she has lived on the rez since she graduated high school, and she thinks all the fuss about Indian vs Native is stupid. I emailed her this pic, and she doesn't see anything offensive about it, either.
ReplyDeleteYou ask 1000 people, you'll get a thousand answers. 1 person cannot speak for an entire culture.
@M, I thought that too and couldn't decide if it was Katie done goth or just Katie in some sort of fashion statement.
ReplyDeleteNo. I'm American Indian and I couldn't care less. Not offended...though...at the same time. I believe in freedom of speech and I'm not very PC.
ReplyDeleteIt's not like she has on a beaded suede dressand a baby in a papoose. Indians have the lock on braids, plaid flannel and feathers - noted. No one seems to get out of whack when Beyonce releases a Loreal ad where she's been turned white. This was some stupid photo shoot for an obscure (at least as far as I've never, ever heard of it) magazine. Get over it!
ReplyDeleteGet over it.....see,told ya?
Delete@PuggleWug - Well, Russel Means (founder of AIM), actually preferred "American Indian" because it puts the "American" first.
ReplyDeleteI think the best thing anyone can do with anyone culturally different from them is be respectful, and also ask them their preference if it's appropriate. If it's a person you're meeting in passing, there's not necessarily a reason their heritage needs to be a focus so I wouldn't make it one.
It goes to intent. Blackface was intended to denigrate an ethnicity and a culture. This "redface", or whatever you want to call it, doesn't appear to do either. Williams is from Montana, so maybe she thinks this is referring to her home state, such as the caption says.
ReplyDeleteSo now we have to worry that our Halloween costumes are going to offend the Village People?
ReplyDeleteI say Native American on forms and in discussions, but growing up, we always said we were Indian, not Native American or as in Canada, First Nations. I don't care if someone calls me Indian, but they don't usually because in our area, there are a lot of people from India and it would just be a bit confusing. All them brown people look alike, right? :b
ReplyDeleteNo, they don't. I don't think ANYBODY would confuse a Native/First Nations/Turanian person for an Indian from India.
DeleteIt's a joke, @Christopher Cruz.
DeleteDislike. My cousin is half-native, and my best friend, and IMO this is racist as hell.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone thinks this is no big deal, try going to the Rez dressed like that, even on Halloween.
I concur with those of you who say Johnny Depp has become a huge a**hole!
this is my first day since I discovered this site about 6 months ago that I actually have all kinds of time to comment. This is fun. :)
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen the great and powerful oz yet so maybe I am missing something but how is being dressed as an Indian relevant to anything in her life or movies right now?
Sure are a lotta Indians on this board0
ReplyDeleteI'm also Native American (Choctaw), and while I try to have a good sense of humor about this stuff, I hate this cover. It's not like this is just another hilariously misguided attempt at a white homage to our cultures. Dressing up the whitest white actress out there like she's a sulky homeless Native girl and slapping a Pocahontas label on it is just a disgusting ploy to get in the news.
ReplyDeleteJacq: there has been a LOT of discussion about Beyonce's whitening. I will also point out that Beyonce has taken heat for highlighting her Native American and French roots in these ads, though I think her mother is part Creole and that's where it comes in for her. I'm a little vague on that one. But there has been criticism.
ReplyDeletehttp://thegrio.com/2012/02/10/beyonce-describes-herself-as-african-american-native-american-french-in-new-loreal-ad/#s:beyonce-true-match-loreal-ad-jpg
http://www.theroot.com/buzz/true-match-controversy-over-beyonce-loreal-ad-misplaced
They bleached most black entertainers with mainstream appeal...bey..Janet..even Michelle obama
DeleteNeil Young spent the 1st 10 years of his public life dressed like a native American and named his publishing company "Broken Arrow". Is he racist or is he interested in native American culture? Alison Brie is forever doing rapping for comic effect. Is she racist or is she a fan of African American hip hop?
ReplyDeleteSouth Pasadena Rapping
Like that muthafuckin Jim morrison
DeleteI really don't see the problem. I've seen people walk around in clothing from all sorts of cultures. It only seems to be a problem when "minority groups" are involved. To me it's the intend that matters.
ReplyDeleteMy High School mascot is the Indians... They have tried to change it to something more politically correct about every 5 yrs, but the family of the original native American who was the sports star that mascot was named for have fought against thr change for the past 50+ years as the original "Indian" was very proud and honored they chose Indian as the mascot. They feel strongly in this case that it was to honor him and argue that making a change would be disrespectful...
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I am not native American, but I also find this in questionable taste...
DeleteLooks like Morticia Addams to me
ReplyDeleteIf Michelle Williams gets raked over the coals for this it's karma for her badmouthing Mila Kunis.
ReplyDeleteNoetje, it isn't her clothes that is the issue.
ReplyDeleteJust looks ugly to me
ReplyDelete...and on another note, I like big black cock!
ReplyDeleteSince when does jeans, button up shirt and the cape you wear at the hair salon = any culture at all? Most of the white people in my home town wear that shirt and jeans combo, it's not uncommon to see a feather in a hat. Wth part of this whole weird getup says Indian/native? The braids? Certainly not the makeup, certainly not the cape, certainly not the clothes. So.... Feather?
ReplyDeleteI find it offfensive, I am not Indian I am Anishinnabe.. Watch the Nation Film Board docudrama "For Angela" it is available on-line, if you think this type of behaviour is harmless. Frankly Neil Young is forgiven because he went through his "Fringe" stage in the sixties..he hasn't slapped on the leather in years
ReplyDelete@cathy & pugglewug-- India came from the word Indu which came from the Greek Endus, which means, guess what! indigenous. So while I guess I worded my statement wrong when I said Indian was short for indigenous, Indian is a term that had been used for indigenous people around the globe centuries before Columbus was even born.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is Columbus was looking for India.when he hit present America,he thought the natives were Indians and called them such.it's a general public conception
DeleteSo -- I guess their next cover will feature a white celebrity in "brownface" (sombrero, dressed as a maid or gardener) or "yellowface" (in a coolie hat, costumed as a nail salon worker or a math dweeb)?
ReplyDeleteUh, yeah - it's racist.
"Honestly, I thought she was dressed in "Katie Holmes" face."
ReplyDeleteThis!
Did she learn nothing from No Doubt???
ReplyDeleteI'm 1/4 Cherokee and in the context the photo was taken, I don't have a problem with it at all. Even before I knew the context, I was like...so she's NA because she has braids and an artfully placed feather? I don't really remember flannel shirts, jeans and what looks to be a silk, designer kimono being part of any tribe's traditional dress.
ReplyDeleteInsofar as the Indian/Native American thing...
It's not as if Columbus got here and said, "let's offend all of the native people." He believed he was in India. For that matter, the indiginous people of the North American continent didn't refer to themselves as "Native Americans" either so if we're all going to get offended maybe it should be about the fact that we all get lumped together and that no one bothers to call us by our traditional names in our native languages (no, I don't know the original native language form of "Cherokee"). For that matter, how is being refered to as "Indian" any worse than being characterized through a reference to the European explorer who "discovered" America (either Amerigo Vespucci or Richard Ameryk, depending on which version you want to believe). I hardly think the people populating this land would have said, "yeah...name us after a European."
On the other hand, I'm pretty hard to offend and I try very hard not to go specifically looking for offence, so there's that.
I'm white on white, so I can't really tell if it's offensive. I think we're more conditioned as a society to recognize racism and stereotypes on African Americans, but I don't think I'd be thrilled by this either. Couldn't she have just dressed up as an Indian, without the face paint?
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't care but there will be a backlash
ReplyDeleteVery disrespecful. No different then blackface.
ReplyDelete@ Layna Day - I couldn't get either of those links to work.
ReplyDeleteMy question is for the Native Americans of the board: What are your feelings about sports teams with "Indians" in their name? (Stew McG answered already)
ReplyDeleteI defer to native Americans in what they may deem offensive to their culture. And as pointed out, ask 1000 people you get 1000 different points of view.
ReplyDeleteThat said, where does it say she's in red face or dressed as Pocahontas? I see a mélange of different fashion trends going on here and correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a feather woven in the hair trend happening now? What's the flannel shirt and boyfriend jeans signify?
She looks more like Katie Holmes (as mentioned!) than a Native America IMHO.
If it is an intentional take on Native American's then yeah, it's offensive. If it's simply a creative stylist just not thinking it through then no. Different from all angles.
@Mango, I don't really care. You could argue that they chose that name because Indians are viewed as strong, tenacious warriors. I think most teams choose names based on the perceived strength of the name. You don't see a whole lot of teams named "Koalas" or "Hula Dancers".
ReplyDeletePart of my feelings about these things stem from (as some of you know) my grandmother's experience as a Cherokee Indian in mid century Oklahoma who got pregnant, out of wedlock, in her teens. There is a shit-ton of intentional bigotry out there that destroys people's psyches and their souls. There is bigotry out there that makes people pay for what should be a proud heritage. My grandmother wsa put in a mental institution and given daily electro-shock treatments to cure her of her whoring ways and her Indian sins. I have a hard time getting my panties in a wad over silly things.
I like big black cock and i can not lie
ReplyDeleteyou other brothers cant deny
when a guy walks in with a dick to his chin
on my knees i fall to take it all in
Being American Indian, I'm wasn't even offended when I went to a Cowboy and Indian party for Halloween. FYI...I dressed up like a cowboy. I hope all the cowboys out there weren't offended.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people like to act like they're offended, just for attention. Being an Indian, I can tell you...it's flattering. I think the American Indian culture is beautiful, as are the people. I'd want to dress like them too. It's exotic.
This is just ludicrous.
ReplyDeleteWhen pornstars disguise as nurses, is it offending to medical community?
It would be racist if she were making out with a goat, or something racially insulting.
No way just putting on Native American clothes and posing on a cover is racist, it's more a homage than anything else.
I am part First Nations as well, my Great Grandmother was Metis, and I find nothing wrong with it.
ReplyDeleteI don't speak for everyone nor do I expect anyone to speak for me.
We, as a fucking society DO need to lighten up. Sorry not sorry.
fucking art can't even be art anymore without someone getting butthurt.
ReplyDeletewas their malice involved? no.
so it's only ok for Victoria's Secret models to do it? my bff who is Chinese went as a leather and feather wearing Native American Indian for Halloween, is she racist? nope.
Completely agree @ YoMismo.
ReplyDelete@Jax - wow, your bff sounds hot.
ReplyDelete" a general public conception"...
ReplyDeleteMy bad,I don't proofread.
DeleteGeneral public misperception
I kind of like the idea of a "public conception" . "Immaculate Public Conception" , ha!
DeleteMeh. I reject the "racist" notion (my daughter is Metis, does that give me a vote?), but I guess it's in the eye of the beholder.
ReplyDeleteI find more offense in the tacky way she was dressed for this shoot .. Like all Rez girls run around in flannels and baggy jeans. I'm not offended , I just don't get what the concept is supposed to imply.
ReplyDeleteAnd yup JC there are a bunch of Indians on here. Up to 1/16 in my home state you receive benefits. How much black do you have to have in you to claim African American? Not being a dick.. excuse the pun here.. But I'm just curious
And I'm a proud Spokane Indian ( Norwegian on my fathers side ) . We say Indian and don't get people's obsession with the term American Indian .. It's kind of funny. I showed my ma this photo and asked her what she thought .. She said " that girl needs to learn how to smile " case closed in my book
I'm not sure that it's racist.
ReplyDeleteHey there, Montana folks! I have a friend from Missoula who claims that it's the most beautiful spot on Earth. Plus, Moose Drool, man. That stuff is killer.
AKM, I have a friend from Missouls !!!
DeleteThe whole cover is creepy as fuck.
ReplyDeleteI'm of Choctaw heritage. Not offended at all. When you're portraying a person you dress and act as that person.
ReplyDeleteThe photo is not offensive, disrespectful or racist. The set-up in the post, calling it "redface" wants you to jump to that conclusion though. Jump! Jump higher!!
ReplyDeleteLet those of you with First Nations heritage decide if it's racist or not. From my perspective it's tacky and not an appealing photo.
ReplyDeleteConsidering brother Vick and his love for animals, I wonder if the animals lovers still get pissed off that a lotta Indians still consume animals for their essentials.
ReplyDeleteShe's from Kalispell, in the Northwestern corner of Montana (I'm from Whitefish, 15 miles North). That part of the state butts up against two major reservations: the Flathead to the South and the Blackfeet to the East. It's hard to explain, but to many Montanans, this isn't racism. And having lived in the Deep South and now the Midwest, many people don't regard racism against Native Americans as racism. Native Americans are a marginalized voice in the sea of marginalized voices.
ReplyDeleteI'm more Offended of Johnny Depp playing Native in Long Ranger than this.
ReplyDelete@justcurious, unless you're a vegetarian, so do you.
ReplyDeleteI am offended by this pic, and her regular face as well.
As a Cherokee, I'm not offended. Then again I really don't give a flip about Michelle, so there ya go.
ReplyDeleteYes, it is racist.
ReplyDeleteRacist.
ReplyDeleteAll controversy aside... I thought this was a picture of Justine Bateman...
ReplyDeleteYes, it's racist, and now I'm even more glad I've never been able to stand the bitch.
ReplyDeleteVictoria Secret apologized .Just sayin'
ReplyDeleteI am offended by her outfit and makeup, wtf is going on there?
ReplyDeleteI find it insensitive. Not the exact same idea as blackface, if you look at it historically, but its bad nonetheless
ReplyDeleteLike a bunch of others here, I am Native American. A card-carrying (literally) member of a Chippewa tribe. I receive benefits. My mother was born on the rez, though I wasn't. I don't personally have a preference between Native American or Indian, though it's obvious which I use more often (there is a high concentration of Indians from India in my area and it removes some confusion), and I don't give a hoot about sports teams or their mascots.
ReplyDeleteThat cover is poorly thought out and made to get people talking, nothing more. It's not more offensive to have Michelle Williams dress in redface than it was to have Iron Eyes Cody, an Italian, do the same. It's definitely insensitive, and whether it's racist... Racism is in the eye of the beholder. YMMV.
LOL. I had to read the comments to find out what was going on because A. what redface? she looks cake maked. and B. Is "Out Now" I thought she was coming out of the closet! never heard of the Mag so why not? Don't see anything that says"takin a poke at Pocahantas" so where are the references to N.A.? Too confusing. Based ONLY on Enty's blurb, it doesn't bother me but then I'm of Irish heritage and St Paddy's day is coming. EVERYONE is Irish Then! Nothing like leprechauns and pots o' gold and green beer to honor a proud heritage that was treated like dirt when they arrived starving, off the boats.
ReplyDelete@Jax if you knew the history of your metis heritage you'd be aware of Metis being a distinct Canadian Culture - not "part" First Nations. But, I suppose you'd fit in with the group who says "my great-great grandmother was a Cherokee." You obviously know very little about the First Nations/Metis issues right under your west coast nose.
ReplyDelete@Jax if you knew the history of your metis heritage you'd be aware of Metis being a distinct Canadian Culture - not "part" First Nations. But, I suppose you'd fit in with the group who says "my great-great grandmother was a Cherokee." You obviously know very little about the First Nations/Metis issues right under your west coast nose.
ReplyDelete