So, you are bartender. A single mom raising 8 kids on your own with your wages as a bartender.You come in on your shift and notice a guy is hammered out of his mind and is getting ready to leave the bar. No one is volunteering to take him home and there is no cab service. He gets in the car and starts driving and you call the police and give them a tip. They spot the car and arrest the guy who is well over twice the legal limit. What do you get for your valuable, life-saving tip? You get fired from your job. Oh, and you also get banned from the bar for life because of your actions. It turns out the guy was a big shot and the bar is embarrassed that an employee ratted him out. What did the bar have to say when the news media discovered what had happened?
“If every patron who comes in here has to worry about the cops waiting for them when they leave, the place would be empty." No, there is nothing she can do legally to get her job back. Ohio is an at will state. Yes, if the guy had got into an accident and killed a school bus filled with children, the bar could have been held liable but they don't care.
Hope someone sees this and gives her a job AND stops patronizing her former job.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that since this has gotten so much attention nationally, she's probably being flooded with job offers as we speak, that all probably pay more than she was making before.
ReplyDeleteYou stay classy, Ohio
ReplyDeleteI meant to say people stop going to her former job, not whoever hires her.
ReplyDeleteI think she could probably sue. No. I think she SHOULD sue. And I am not sue-happy.
ReplyDeleteSue them! Bastards!
ReplyDeleteDisgraceful on 80 different levels. Imagine if the asswipe who gave that comment had a wife or daughter killed by the drunk driver in question. Peoples minds are all f*cking mixed up, devoid of rationale. I could go on and on, but i just cant., too discouraging.
ReplyDeleteOh OHIO! You never cease to amaze me.
ReplyDeletePoor woman.
ReplyDeleteHoly crap, 8 kids!
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ReplyDelete@FSP that was my thought too!
ReplyDeleteIts a crappy story but she'll end up okay. Suing would only put money in the lawyers pocket. Someone will offer her a better job.
How did she support 8 kids as a bartender? Surely it was a part time 2nd job.
I hate to say this, but as a bartender, it was her responsibility to ensure that patron doesn't get so wasted, and to also ensure they have a ride home. The bar is liable for anything that the drunk guy causes, and she put the business on the line by allowing him to leave. Big shot or not, she should have called the cops to drive him home instead of waiting for him to leave first.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the guy was drunk when she started her shift. And if he was such a big shot how come he had no sway with cops? I wonder did she try to get him to agree to a cab first?
DeleteBartenders in TX can be help liable for over serving if anything happens after the patron leaves the bar. Sounds like the day time bar tender over served and this mom did the right thing. Its such an injustice to her.
DeleteI just thought of a possible reason for this playing out as it did. If she was the one who kept serving him drinks instead of cutting him off, that's problematic.
ReplyDeleteI was a bartender. I stopped patrons...slowed them down, got a male co-worker to help get them in a cab. I'm talking FALLING DOWN, blind drunk and trying to drive.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I would have flagged a cop down in my uniform right in front of the bar, if a drunk driver had ever gotten away.
Fuck that bar. I hope they get boycotted.
And GO COLTS!!!
Has the drunken idiot been outed? Because he should be publicly shamed for getting her in trouble.
ReplyDeleteShe can't sue - it's an at-will state, which means they can fire just because they want to. They could say she didn't wipe the bar down correctly, calling the cops had nothing to do with it.
ReplyDelete"any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work"
There are only five exceptions to the law and none of them are for performing a community service.
& here is another reason why I am ashamed that I live in Ohio! Awesome.
ReplyDeleteHis bac was .167 or something ridiculous - I can't imagine how anyone thinks she was in the wrong. The police should be thanking her! I hope something good comes out of this for her. Shame on the American legion for firing her.
ReplyDelete@zombie - it says he was already hammered out of his mind when she came in for her shift.
ReplyDeleteGuys, cutting off ANYONE is starting a huge incident---She probably would have lost her job for THAT.
ReplyDeleteOur former Prosecutor in Indianapolis (same as a DA elsewhere) would get mad if you didn't break the law and give him free booze. Seriously, we had to do it. An elected official.
Restaurants and bars rarely support the server if the patron's more important. I did this stuff for years and years, close to where this lady lives. It's not as easy as y'all think.
I get what ur saying about his status and all that but it's not true that cutting off anyone is always a huge incident. I have actually had customers thank me for cutting them off
DeleteI think she probably could have called the owners to take the guy home or something. It would suck to have the bar that gets people drunk and calls the cops so they get a dui instead of a ride home.
ReplyDeleteWait - according to the story he was drunk when she got on shift, meaning she didn't overserve him. And here in Washington state the bar and bartender can be held liable and lose their liquor license if someone who was overserved gets into an accident or gets a DUI.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, she did continue serving him. :/
DeleteCrap, Enty JR. She is married and her husband is a teacher. The bar is an America Legion post. What Prolixe said per "at will". Per NY Daily News. and YES she did the right thing.
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ReplyDeleteLucas, the law's the same in every state but two (FL & NV). The bar is responsible for over-serving the customer if he drives and hurts someone. Her employer should be thankful she got him pulled over before they wound up liable.
ReplyDelete@J.Sara, the cops are on record as saying she did the right thing. It's the bar that's at fault here.
ABC fines can differ. I've taken the class in both TX and LA, TX penalizes the bartender more than LA did. Also there's a huge difference in how bars purchase and sell booze to patrons between the states.
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ReplyDeleteA good attorney can argue this exception to employment at will. And people sue for wrongful discharge all the time in Ohio and win. I work in HR in OH.
ReplyDeleteA “public policy” exception would prohibit an employer from terminating an employee “at will” if such a termination would violate certain important public policies. For example, if an employee can prove she was terminated only because she took time off to serve on a jury, a court may determine that she was wrongfully terminated because jury service is an important public function, and allowing employees to be terminated for serving on a jury would endanger that important function.
Oh, and as a RCL member, shame shame shame on the Legion.
ReplyDeleteMari, glad you prefer an important detail or 2:)
DeleteAgent, that's what bothered me! A private bar in an at-will state...
DeleteCrappy but not a shock. A Legion? Oh hell no!
My Uncle Jay used to say (if anyone wanted one too many) "Not even if you were Monty, Pal!"
Her in my province (& probably most other provinces in Canada) the establishment AND the server are responsible for patrons drunkenness & actions. If you don't cut someone off & they do something stupid or tragic, you can be held liable.
ReplyDeleteThis bar owner needs to be outed & banned for such callous regard for human life.
Libby, I am a current Indy bartender also! Ok, well Carmel which may be even worse because talk about trying to cut off men with major entitlement issues. Go Colts!
ReplyDeletelong time lurker, hardly ever comment. love to read your interactions together tho!
Agree Karrots. I'd like to know if she served him drinks though because that would make her somewhat culpable in creating the problem she then had to deal with.
ReplyDeleteHi, corkdork, I was at Palomino for 7 years, along with like 4 others Downtown. Don't ask anyone up there about me, the community is SO incestuous, our Indy serving community...
ReplyDeleteBTW ALL....
I just wanted to clarify that I did NOT overserve any of my customers, I was known as UPTIGHT (can y'all tell? lol). But I was closest to the door, and was usually the only bartender OR server who even cared if a drunk patron might drive.
Patty - I was going to make basically the same comment.
ReplyDeleteA good attorney would argue it's against public policy to fire an employee for *following the law* and calling the police on a drunk driver. Society wants to encourage such behavior, not penalize it.
The cops should go under cover and charge the owner with misprision when he inevitably watches someone who is plastered leave and get behind the wheel of a car.
ReplyDeleteWith any luck misprision (or whatever it's called in OH) is a felony there and it will cost him his liquor license.
Yes, please I really hope that someone sees this and gives her a job. I get where they are coming from, where they don't want patrons to be afraid to go there and drink but firing a single mother of 8? I hope that she finds a better job from this. Wow.
ReplyDeleteLibby, I have been at Kincaids for 6.5 yrs. Hello RUI family. Random. In my first year of bartending there I got into a bitch fight with one of the asst managers when I cut off one "gentleman" and she reversed my decision, essentially. Almost quit over it.
ReplyDeleteOK...so a woman possibly saved the man's life, and the life of someone else. This is why people don't want to get involved anymore and help people out. I'm so sick and tired of people with their "connections". Because you're connected, you get away with bad behavior? This is a sick world.
ReplyDeleteI have an "in" or have a "connection" with my parents. When I would do something bad, I got punished and sentence to jail time in my room. Guess what? I listened to them and respected them for it. What they say goes...People need to put their foot down with celebs and stop supporting bad behavior. They need to be disciplined.
EXACTLY, corkdork. Restaurant managers are the kind of people who want to stop being a server, so they can make less money to be HORRIBLE to servers.
ReplyDeleteYou started w/ RUI around when I left! Did someone named Frick work w/ you?
There's nothing left to say other than echo what's already been said here. The bar owner is shameless and will hopefully get his in turn.
ReplyDeleteI truly hope this lady gets a good job and comes out for the better.
Lord. Dont get me started on Frick. I actually left Kincaids for awhile when he came up there to be our GM and returned after his departure. If you are a friend of his, then I apologize for my comments...
ReplyDeleteThat just goes to show you that if you're going to do something like that you have to be sneaky, as in excuse yourself and make the call from your cell phone in the ladies room.
ReplyDeleteNO corkdork----ITA!!!!! One of my least favorites on planet Earth. Mostly because he's at least a wanna-be predator of teen boys. But also because he REALLY barely can tolerate any female at all. Huge gay misogynist. Double-vicious.
ReplyDeleteI'll bet we would get along FIIIIIINE, corkdork!
Are you a female? First initial? If I'm ever there, I'll find you and say hi. Not that I go there ever, but I might....
I am so glad it wasnt just all the girls at Kincaids that felt like that. It was disgusting how much he 1) made the high school age SA's his pets and 2) hated all the females that worked there. It was so sad what he did to our culture there- we are a much smaller staff than Pal, most of use have been there for YEARS and he caused sooo much friction.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, yes as you can tell I am female! My first initial is also L. I am only there part time now, I'm a wine rep by day and spend alot of time DT Indy. Small distributor so all local accts, no chain. Are you still in the industry?
A single mom with 8 kids! I can't even imagine!
ReplyDelete@Libby & Corkdork, I know it's OT, but I am really enjoying your back and forth. Small world!!
ReplyDeleteOh, and I forgot to mention that shortly after he took over as GM he manufacture some fake staff complaints and had the asst manager fired by corporate- who was also an adult gay man. So, he basically hates everyone.
ReplyDeleteThe day that the new CEO came to town and fired him after an hour long sit down to discuss the direction of the restaurant was a glorious one. I returned to work 2 weeks later.
SueRH, the mother is married and her husband is a teacher. The bar is a legion post.
ReplyDeleteShe had me at "bartender single mom with 8 kids".
ReplyDeleteNo corkdork, I left in 2006. Then banking. Then got sick. Currently not working. wah wah.
ReplyDeleteDid you ever know Worm? Padrick? Tramont? I'm trying to remember Pal people who I knew, who went to K's and stayed a bit.
I may be gone for a few hours from CDaN, sorry. My BF woke up, and he demands attention til he goes to work!
Nice meeting you! Maybe someday IRL!
@Mango - actually that's a good idea. Block your phone number and make it an anonymous call and then be shocked, SHOCKED that the drunk is arrested! Be sure to look around suspiciously at all the customers and staff.
ReplyDeleteYou would think she'd be protected under a whistleblower law. She reported a crime and got fired for it. That can't be legal.
ReplyDeleteBars can get sued for letting drunks drive. The owner should be commending her.
ReplyDeleteI guess I always found it troubling that a bar or server could only be held responsible IF someone died. They really need to get more proactive and be able to report without consequences to prevent potentially innocent people become victims of drunk drivers.
ReplyDeleteGood bartenders at a bar with a certain level of clientele, ones with money can make more money on a few shifts than working full time at a 9-5 jobs because of the tips.
ReplyDeleteLong time ago a friend and I worked the same summer job, we both got $230 a week which was actually good for a summer job in uni at the time, she made $300 - $400 working weekends at a local bar bartending most of it tips because she was fast with the people skills and it was a very popular hangout at the time
why are states allowed to opt out of basic employment standards, that is so regressive and I lean right of center
ReplyDelete@Agent - Are we reading the same post?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mom-fired-bartender-calling-cops-drunk-driver-article-1.1275143
DeleteSuRH, the info in the post is not accurate. See NY Daily News article. Eny jr has inaccurate info in this "news" post. The correction was posted upthread.
ReplyDelete"Right To Work" means, "Right to Fire Your Ass for Any Reason Whatsoever". I wish the slime who passed such laws were honest. Don't sugar coat the turds you're foisting upon us in order to move time back to the Dark Ages.
ReplyDeleteWow .. That is crappy as hell.
ReplyDeleteI hope she can get a great paying job from this publicity because she sure as hell did the right think in my mind. I would follow up with a "F*ck you, American Legion" .. but they do do wonderful things for veterans. So, I will simply limit that to "F*ck you, management of the Shelby, Ohio American Legion. Eat a bag of d**ks."
[Sorry .. crabby as hell today.]
Admittedly, I didn't read all the comments, but someone asked who he was. SHE is a bartender at an American Legion (or something like that type of organization), and he was the grand poo-bah of the same legion. NOW it should make all sorts of sense why she got fired. And while Ohio is an at will employment state, that does not mean that employers can't be sued. They absolutely can. It simply means they can terminate you're employment with no cause listed.
ReplyDeleteThey "outed" this guy by name, so if nothing else, everyone knows what a douchebag this guy is. And a lot of these places have a code of conduct, which I'm sure he's violated six ways from Sunday. He will most likely suffer some sort of internal smacking around. And last but not least, he's a total and complete douchebag.
those MADD moms should rally over there and protest that bar etc. Or do an online donation like the one that was set up for the sweet granny bus driver and all those horrible children who were just wretched to her.
ReplyDeletethose MADD moms should rally over there and protest that bar etc. Or do an online donation like the one that was set up for the sweet granny bus driver and all those horrible children who were just wretched to her.
ReplyDeleteplease someone publish the name of the bar that fired her
ReplyDelete@Libby and @corkdork - never been to either establishment, but I can't imagine dealing with Brizzi or the Carmelites and trying to cut them off.
ReplyDeleteDidn't realize Ohio was an at-will state. So is Indiana. It's too bad there isn't a common sense clause in the at-will language.