Tuesday, January 29, 2013

Your Turn

A homeowner in Pennsylvania is suing a Realtor and the former owner of the house she bought because neither disclosed to her that a murder/suicide had happened in the home right before she bought it. Would you live in a home that had a murder/suicide in it?

104 comments:

  1. No way in hell. Too much bad juju in there.

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    1. What about if the previous homeowner had AIDS?

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    2. That's kind of a douche remark to make. AIDS/HIV is a bit different than shooting your spouse in the head and then yourself. Sorry if I'm reading too much into it but my brother in law died of Aids.

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    3. If you mean they died in the house, of AIDS, that's different than murder, or suicide. It's the same if someone died of cancer, or heart attack. I want to know.

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  2. Maybe. If I'd already fallen in love with the house, sure. I'd probably be on the lookout for angry spirits, though.

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  3. In Cali, you have to tell them before they buy. It's a state law. Maybe this will crossover to other states.

    No, I don't think I would like to not know either.

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  4. Depends on the price.

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  5. Depends on the nature of the incident.

    house about a mile from me was the site of a double murder, homeless man beat an elderly couple to death. Prior to that they'd happily raised a family and retired, very good history to the house until their tragic death.

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  6. When something is a plot point in season one of American Horror Story, I would have to say, no I wouldn't live there! I bet it was Rubberman!!

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    1. Omg @VIPblonde- that's right where my head went!

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  7. Every house has a history.

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  8. I thought you had to disclose that even just a normal death has occurred in a home if it's the reason for it currently being on the market. If so, the new owner has a good case.

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  9. I'm glad that the house we're buying is being sold by the living original owner; her husband might have died there, but probably no one else. Definitely no murders--I grew up in the neighborhood and my parents/grandparents still live there so I would have heard about it.

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    1. @Karen - I hear you on this. Our "new" house was sold to us by the widow of the couple who built this place. We know we lucked out and not everyone has the luxury to pass on a place with a dark history.

      Of course today we found a huge leak in one room - all over the carpet and piles of clothes I've been sorting to sell. If we could find the source I'd be much more chill, but also: first world probs.

      OT: where has Amber been?

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  10. If I didn't know, I wouldn't care. Not at all superstitious, but I understand it would bother some people. My husband would say abso-freaking-lutely NOT, he's on the bad juju train.

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  11. Ummm. I say no. Well only if Tangina came in first to clean the house first!

    Seriously, it really depends. I'd have to check out the house first. Vibes may be ok. They peeps maybe gone. But probably not, already have enough trouble with spirits et al bothering my sleep. Don't need to add couple drama to the mix.

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  12. I probably would because I don't believe in ghosts or that kind of thing. It would still feel kind of creepy I'd imagine though.

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  13. The news say her husband died, so she moved across country to be near her family. That's gotta make it even harder, even though the murder was in I believe 2007. I don't think I could live there, esp. if I'd just lost my husband as she had.

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  14. My aunts neighbor shot himself in his home, she was at her home and heard it (houses are close together in the city). The family moved and someone else bought it. They were aware of what happened. This was in PA, it was a million dollar home.

    I'm morbid, I would buy a house even if someone died in it. Not just because of someones died but because it would not bother me.

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  15. I wouldn't buy a house something horrible happened in. It happens here all the time though.

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  16. No. My grandma lived in a house where a couple people were killed and it was HAUNTED. My poor mom grew up in that house. I slept in her room when I was 10 and this creepy tall figure started coming at me from the corner, so I screamed. People tried getting to me through the doorway but were knocked down a few times before they could get in the room. By that thing. No, no, NOOOOOO!

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  17. In California, sellers are required by law to reveal if anyone died in house or apt in the previous two years. Just sayin'.

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  18. I read the article on yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/pa-homeowner-sues-seller-over-homes-bloody-past-210734556--abc-news-money.html

    The owner suing to get her money back bought it from someone who bought it after the murder. The prior owners bought it in October 2006 after the murders happened. She purchased it in 2007.

    PA law doesn't require such a disclosure, which is why her appeal was denied in Superior Court.

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  19. I bought a house in CA, specifically asked if someone died but was told no. Someone did die of suicide. The neighbors told me after we moved in. They also told me they sprinkled holy water and prayed for the house to cleanse it. I didn't have a problem living there.

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  20. If the reason the murder/suicide was committed had to do with, like, some sort of persistent gas leak into the house or whatever, I'd want to know. Otherwise, meh, I don't think I'd care as long as everything was properly cleaned and/or restored.

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  21. It's not something I would like to do. My dad committed suicide. One of my sisters and I stayed at his apartment with his girlfriend. I woke up in the morning and Betsy, his g/f, smiled really creepily and said, "You know your Dad killed himself in that room." To say I freaked out would be putting it mildly. I'm still not convinced he killed himself, to be honest. A whole lot of shadiness going on there. But, I didn't feel uncomfortable sleeping there. I knew he'd died there but not in that spare bedroom. Sorry for the long post. Kinda felt like sharing it.

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  22. No way!

    I'd always been told that the realtor doesn't have to disclose the info unless the buyer asks. I'm sure it varies from state to state.

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  23. My friends son committed suicide in her bedroom. They put the house up for sale and chose not to disclose that information because of the stigma.

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  24. *meant to say we stayed there for the funeral

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  25. My husband and I briefly considered it about three years ago... It was a huge 5-bedroom, with a pool in an extremely prestigious neighborhood. The list price was half of the tax value. The mother killed herself while the father was at a game with their four children. The house remains on the market to this day.

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  26. I think Betsys are getting a bad name. We're not all creepy. Just most of us.

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  27. @Betsy LOL! One of my dearest friends was named Betsy so I know all Betsy's aren't creepy!

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  28. My family moved a great deal when I was growing up and only one house was strange -- my sister and I both believed it was haunted. Crazy, I know. In college I had a friend from Canada whose house was more than a century old and she said, matter-of-factly, there's a old man ghost who they can see on occassion sitting in a rocking chair smoking a pipe; he's been there for decades.

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    1. This kind of ghost is OK. He's just hanging with his pipe. I have a ghost like that in my current house. An older lady who sits in a chair in a bedroom on the first floor. She doesn't like it when her room gets messy. And it often is :(

      I know my dog sees her too. He's always looking at stuff that isn't there.

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  29. I think they should HAVE to disclose the info, and leave it up to the buyer. IIRC, no real estate agent HAS to take a listing, so it would go to the appropriate agent, finding the appropriate buyer. Shouldn't that be the right way to do things anyway? If the info wasn't disclosed, I would say the buyer SHOULD have a case, if it freaks them out. But I would limit the 'rewards', such as relevant info: relo costs if previously incurred, agent fees, and someone (the bank, or the lender) should be held responsible for 'refunding' the money. Not all of it, but again, it should be a case by case basis. Different strokes for different folks, but I'm NOT a fan of taking advantage of someone for personal or financial gain.

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  30. I think there were several issues at play here, and sadly, I don't think she should recover. Yes, she moved there after her husband and her two teenage sins' father died. So that is sad. But, there was an owner in between the murder / suicide and the lady suing. I think that sorta breaks the bad vibes/ it didn't just happen, and it's been revamped and lived in in between. I think what is really goin on is that she bought in2007 at the height of market and wants an out. Otherwise, sell it. Laws of state dictate disclosure, and there was no legal duty here. If this bothers her that much, research a ppty better before buying. I think it's sour grapes that they
    Market declined and that's why she can't sell. Of all things, murder / suicide wasn't like it's a targeted house or a dangerous premises. Our first house, the owner died in and donated it to a school, which promptly sol it for the money. We bought. No disclosure, but I researched prior
    Owner bc it's odd the school owned. Didn't bother me at all- he was old, happy, loved, respected and supported local education. Died peacefully in my room. I never thought of it again till reading this. I do remember a super nice house near us growing up where a mafia hit happened , family MASSACRED. House was gorgeous and fetched pretty penny with sordid bugsy segal style legend attached... This is a nonissue except Ina down market...

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  31. Anonymous10:38 AM

    My childhood home was one of "those houses". The guy who lived there before us had hung himself in the garage. I was a child and had a great childhood, so I don't think it tainted anything, of course I was protected from that info as a kid. It was the neighbors who had told my family too, not the agent who sold the house. Just texted my mom, she said nothing weird ever happened.

    And currently, a condo 2 units down has had 3 deaths in it. 2 natural deaths, 1 questionable overdose that was suspicious. No creepy vibes coming off that place, and no rumors of hauntings.

    So based on my experiences, I'd entertain the idea. Maybe. Might *really* entertain it for some ocean front property at a steeply reduced price :)

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  32. Well, does it have a big yard, a swimming pool and an eat in kitchen? If yes, then yes.

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  33. I would not, no. That's too much bad juju, like someone said. I don't necessarily believe in ghosts or spirits, but you can feel bad energy in places where terrible things happened. Wouldn't want to be surrounded by that 24/7...

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  34. WTF?! What the hell does someone dying of AIDS have to do with the story? /smh

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    1. There's still a fear about AIDS in society.Just like some folks avoid public restrooms or some folks will switch apartments if the previous tenant was a smnoker or were pet owners.It comes down to the person's own comfort zone.

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    2. @just curious. Gotcha, sorry for assuming.

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  35. Depends on the price. Sorry, I don't really believe in "juju". That sounds too much like people think murder and suicide are "catching". They're not.

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  36. People can sue for whatever they want to, but "their Realtor" might not have (a) been allowed in that state to divulge such information; or (b) was representing the seller only, and not the buyer, and the buyer neglected to do their proper due diligence or get a buyer's agent because they were looking for a better deal" that way; (c) --and this one will rankle some people--might not have been required to divulge that info, and decided against doing so. Personally I tell ANYthing and EVERYthing that I am allowed to by law.

    There are lots of possible scenarios and much of it depends on which state you are in. Dead people are not a federally-protected class and, while it could be considered a material fact, it is not that way in some states.

    Just a Realtor's $.02 worth!

    And to answer the post, hell yeah I probably would buy it and live there if it was the right property and I got it at a good price!

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  37. Holy crap, @Reeses, that is a freaky story. Why would she say that you after losing your dad that way? Wow.

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  38. If we really loved the house, we'd get it. As a Catholic, I'd probably ask my parish priest to come out and bless the house (since I do believe in evil spirits). Mr. B is Jewish so we have a mezzuzah (sp?) by the front door and a crucifix in the bedroom.

    The only thing I would really want to know is stuff like was there a mold problem? Was meth manufactured in this house? Was it ever a drug house? Stuff that could endanger us.

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  39. Yeah, I would. As long as everything had been cleaned up and there were no mystery stains anywhere.

    This same thing happened to my ex-boss. There was a huge brown stain out in the garage that he just assumed was from a car or something, then a neighbor told him what actually happened.

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    1. Mystery stain...lol. I read as Mystery Machine.

      Wow about what happened o your ex boss. That's creepy.

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  40. My house is 200 years old. I'm sure some tragedies have occurred here. That's life. Doesn't bother me.

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  41. I'd just have to see what the vibe was in the house. Obviously, this women doesn't have a leg to stand on, legally speaking. And the laws vary from state to state. My grandfather (not the one who died of pancreatic cancer; the other one) killed himself in his home. We were able to sell the home without disclosing this, as in our state it wasn't required. Of course, the neighbors knew all about what had happened (they actually found him), but the sale went through and I guess everything's ok.

    Our last house was an estate - both of the owner had died there, but I don't believe any funny business was involved. They were the original owners, and had given that house a lot of love for almost 40 years, and we felt honored that we could continue that for them.

    The bottom line is what in the world are we supposed to do with a house that someone dies in - burn it down or something? Life goes on - homes are for the living. But I do believe that disrespecting or disregarding the deceased prior owner can lead to trouble. And I firmly believe houses can be haunted. So I guess you have to decide on a case by case basis.

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  42. Anonymous11:06 AM

    Has anyone on here tried the sage cleansing of their house? Be it for energy, or spiritual entities. I wonder if people are able to tell a difference after. This is kind of tied together to the topic, so thought I'd ask for feedback unless it irks ppl to take convo off the rails. I got some white sage from a friend and it has sat in my kitchen for months now, but I'm scared of doing it wrong, and alarming the fire department!

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  43. Depends. I would have to walk through it, maybe spend a night in it first to get a feel for the spirits. Call me crazy, but I have lived in a houses with active spirits and they can drive you crazy sometimes.

    In early January when I was moving and had to stay in my friends house for a few weeks they drove me nuts. Idk what happened in that house, but I would see at least one or two spirits a day and sometimes hear them. Which btw is not very fun when all you want to do is watch TV and your friends think you are crazy because you keep whipping your head around or cocking your ear and telling everyone to shut up.

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    1. So you see and hear them too? Aha! I have to say a prayer before I go to sleep or I will get woken up by visitors. I'm not scared. It's just annoying. I sense them in the house too and so does my dog. Poor buddy. But I have other people visit too, not just the house bound spirits. It makes for some interesting evenings AND I hate it when they mess with the electricity. Stinkers!

      CDaN siblings!!!

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  44. Thanks for sharing Reeses, I always love hearing your stories and experiences. That Betsy does sound pretty nuts, and no worries Betsy, I know a few non crazy ones, the name is still safe!

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  45. 10-4 my Grandmother will use sage sometimes, she also couples it with saint prayer and she has been happy with the results, as far as I know.

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  46. @just curious, I agree. It should be up to the person buying to decide. Just because ghost stories don't bother you, it doesn't mean they don't bother me. To each his own. Just like an infectious disease. It may not bother one person, but it may drive another batty.

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  47. Like others pointed out a death must be disclosed in CA. We actually knew the person who passed away in Blanc Debris manor but it didn't deter us from buying. We thought Bud might actually be hanging out because we heard weird sounds but it turned out to be a woodpecker. That damn flicker is STILL trying to get in

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  48. I lived in a house that had been gutted by fire, killing the previous owner. She was an elderly piano teacher and my room was built right where her baby grand piano once stood. Sounds like the intro to a creepy story, but that's all there is to it. Never got a bad vibe about living there and pretty sure I'd do similarly again, if the price was right.

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  49. I would have to spend time in the house feeling the vibe but if its good I would.

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  50. I rented a room from my stupid friend in marina del ray. The room was furnished. I would smell cig smoke from time to time but I was alone in the condo. Then one day i told her about that. She said "oh my mom died of emphysema in that bed you sleep in. She was a heavy smoker." Yeah, thanks for telling me after the fact, crazy coke head!

    So.... NO!

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    1. Lol. Oh my. In the same bed! Yikes!

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  51. If someone just died because of old age or sudden heart attack or something, I'd be fine with it. Bloody massacre and murder, NO WAY. Even if they scrubbed clean the place, I would imagine there are still tiny dried specks of blood from the victim somewhere.

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  52. I am sure I have lived/worked/walked in places where people have died. I guess it would depend on the vibe I got from the place when I walked through.

    I understand and have empathy for this woman though, she went through one tragedy with her husband dying, then finds out her home was the site of another tragedy.

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  54. No, not even if it was dirt cheap. It is a required disclosure in Ohio as well.

    I grew up in a haunted house where there were many, many deaths prior to my family living there and several deaths after they sold it. Sad, but true.

    I am a scientist, but I have seen enough crazy shit to know that hauntings are real.

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  55. Totally depends on the vibe I'd pick up. I'm agnostic, but I'd burn sage or have SOME kind of cleansing if it had been a violent death, I'm sure.

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  56. I don't believe, so I would definitely go for it. It's probably a deal because most people believe in woo-woo stuff!

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  57. No, dont want house with bad juju. No muder no suicide. Aids or disease us meaningless to me, but the other two freak me out. Reeses, sorry about you crazy step mother. Hugs. :)

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  58. Depending on the circumstances, I might. I'm not predisposed to avoiding places that are "haunted" or whatever, it just doesn't bug me.

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  59. FSP took the words right out of my fingers.

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  60. To be honest, I don't know. The vibe is everything.

    I was touring this beautiful old home that was in our budget, a house I normally would have been crazy for, but something was just off about it.

    After finding very weird and disturbing writing on wall in the was in the attic (you could only see them when looking a certain way) I got out of there quick. I asked the agent what was up with this house, and long story short, a Y2K doomsday cult moved in 10/99 and left in the middle of the night sometime in 02/2000 The vibe was just freaky on that house.

    Murders and such, depending on the age of the house, and the vibe.

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  61. She should sue. I'm a Realtor and the seller must disclose any deaths in the home within 3 years. I would imagine most states have real estate laws that include verbiage that requires sellers to disclose any material facts that affect the property. I'm surprised that wasn't in their local news.

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    1. And no way in hell would I live there. I've sold homes however to people who didn't mind a natural death. And one home where someone commited suicide right before i was to hold an open house. I has multiple offers on that one and everyone knew what had happened. That was very frightening to say the least.

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  62. A friend of mine bought a house that an old man had died in. He was found sitting in his easy chair in the living room. Typical block, Florida house. His sons wanted to move it really quickly and my friend got it for a good price. Soon after she moved in, the lights would turn on or off by themselves, and the doors would open by themselves, especially to the the master where she slept. (I used to tease her that he was watching her while she showered.)

    She had the wiring and lights checked by an electrician and nothing was wrong. I was there once when the lights came on, so I've seen it first hand. She would always say, "Oh, that's just Daryl". She never got a bad or malicious vibe from Daryl and the events lessened in frequency over the years.

    One night she woke up and her room was suffused with a red glow. She was paralyzed with fear... and then realized that the neighbor across the street was pulling into his drive way and the red glow was from his tail lights. THAT was her scariest moment.

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  63. Dia who are you responding too? Oh the woes of the mobile site. I'll pretend you were talking to me though because I was waiting for someone else to talk about seeing their spirits but so far I was the only crazy one. Not that you are crazy, but you know what I mean. I have only experienced one non housebound spirit, but I have seen him for a few years now so catching a glimpse in my peripherals or in my rear view mirror isn't as startling as it once was. The ones I hear though are mainly women or children, rarely is it a male voice and it's always like I am overhearing a conversation in the next room, or someone left the TV on in the next room. Yikes please don't call the crazy farm on me, I promise I'm not nuts.

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  64. Gosh darn, the woes of the regular site, not the mobile.

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  65. I just FINALLY was able to buy a house here in CA in December after doing tons of offers where I was competing with 20-30 others each time. It's a very hot market and inventory is very low. I was offering $60-80k over list and not getting the winning bid and the only way I got my house was that the listing said "cash only" and my realtor convinced the bank to accept my bid since I could close super fast (it was pre-foreclosure).

    If the floors and any other surfaces had been replaced, of course I would go for it! I would be in like flynn! Lower price and no bidding war? Sign me up!

    I'd tell the ghost "hey, I'm sorry honey, but the plumbing in my apartment was haunted waaaaay worse than whatever you could do, so we're just gonna have to live together. But hey, I love Halloween so I'll put together a big to-do and you just go to town on that night and have yourself a blast."

    Besides, the ghost isn't gonna be pissed I'm using her dishwasher or whatever. She's gonna be pissed at the guy who shot her - who's dead now too. So, it's all good.

    "Oooooh, you're putting in the dirty dishes the wrong wayyyyyy"

    LOL

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  66. I would, but I would want a significant discount on the sale of the house. Because occasionally I would freak the hell out about ghosts.

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  67. Anonymous1:57 PM

    I don't think I could. Shortly after we moved into our condo, the neighbor who's windows face ours was brought out in a body bag. Through a friend I found out he had killed himself. Since then I had a couple of dreams about conducting seance's in the house and even about the neighbor standing over my bed. I don't think there's any way I could go into the house, even though it's been renovated and new neighbors moved in.

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  68. @Luckylas: Love the kittle avi..Is that yours? She/He is gorgeous!

    Mango that is hilarious! Reminded me for a second of the Seinfeld show where Kenny Rogers Chicken moved in across the street and Kramers apt. was constantly bathed in red light.

    I don't care what anyone says. I think ghosts exist and I love hearing peoples stories. I have never once had an encounter but (depending upon how benevolent it was), would be eager to have one.

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  69. @ Reeses. Sorry for your loss. My father committed suicide in our home. We went back to the house about a week after his death and continued to live there for another 5 years. I can recall some odd occurrences throughout our years there. I remember for my first high school dance, my mother took several pictures of me and my date in the hallway. When we developed the film, one of the pictures you could not see my date, only a light in the form of a person standing next to me. I like to think that my dad was there to send me off to my first dance. I feel like I could live in a place where someone has committed suicide, but not sure I could handle a murder/suicide.

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    1. @Melpomene. Thanks, and same to you.

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  70. No way. Did live in a house where previous owner had died peacefully in her sleep and that never bothered me.

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  71. Thanks Sherry. Yes that is my rescued Bengal kitty. She is the sweetest thing too.

    All my ghosts encounters have been non-threatening really. Lots of lights flickering, TVs turning off and on (before remote controls - hehe), doors swinging open and closed, footstep sounds on stairs. I just talked to my Uncle and Father about the house (as they grew up in it) and they finally opened up to me about their experiences. We all experienced the exact same things. My Grams was apparently convinced that they were not evil spirits (this coming from a very devoted Catholic). However, my brother and I have the most intense scary as hell nightmares about this house.

    BTW, the owner that bought the house after my family did NOT like the spirits and was extremely pissed. I am not sure if it was disclosed (doubt it as it was a family secret for awhile). Anyway, he fell off the roof during a storm and died. My family suffered no deaths during their stay there, but before them, at least one child drowned in a pool.

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  72. It has to be disclosed due to the bio-hazard. Same it it was a grow-op or meth lab due to chemical contamination. Also cuz drug seeking 'customers' may still be stopping by.

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  73. I live in Oakland, so many of the houses have murders in and outside of them. I would buy if I got a deal.

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  74. I would only care if there was a chance it was likely to happen again for some reason. Which would be more of a neighbourhood factor than something to do with the specific house. Assuming the stains have come out, that is.

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  75. Anonymous3:25 PM

    I know I am late to the comments and don't know if anyone will see this but, I am a Realtor in Texas.

    Texas Property Code 5.008 states that neither a seller nor a broker must disclose deaths that occurred by natural causes, suicide, or accidents unrelated to the condition of the property.

    So basically only murder or if something in the house (gas leak, etc) killed the previous occupants can be disclosed.

    As far as AIDS goes, AIDS and HIV are considered a handicap and fall under a protected class and may NOT be disclosed, b/c it can be considered discriminatory.

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  76. I moved from a house that 4 people died in to the house I'm in now where 1 person has died. It would be nice to know, but it isn't a dealbreaker for me.

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  77. I can't remember the details, but there's a small town in Iowa near Waterloo in which a murder took place in the same house where the town's previous murder took place. Everyone had some opinion of that.

    I used to babysit in a house where the previous owner's wife "drowned in the bathtub." All the neighbors whispered that the husband did it and they had fought all the time, but the cause of death was ruled an accident. I would have bad dreams about it back in my own house, but never felt anything weird while I was there.

    I have spent considerable time in nursing homes and assisted living places, tending to my grandmother and my father in law. We know the vacancies that allowed them their rooms were the deaths of the previous occupants, but neither mentioned seeing or feeling anyone.

    Finally, I know someone who bought a house which used to be a funeral home. She had stories that I never wanted to hear, but it was definately creepy.

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    1. Was the husbands last name Peterson?

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  78. Luckylass wow that is insane about the owner after you guys, I wonder if he really pissed them off or purely an accident.

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  79. Definitely yes, if this the house where Paris Hilton would kill Kris Jenner then commit suicide:
    1) the house would carry good karma
    2) I could make a fortune by selling tickets for visits
    3) there wouldn't any brains to clean, just bones and blood, given that a bullet in the head wouldn't be lethal for the two of them.

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  80. I live in the home my Dad's family built. Before we renovated, whenever I ironed in the kitchen I called feel my grandfather's presence. I finally had to say that he could stay, but could he not make his presence known to me as he was freaking me out. I never met my grandad. Hubby & I sleep in the bedroom my aunt died in. She died of natural causes & I saw her. She was in bed & there wasn't a wrinkle in her bed clothes, very peaceful. Neither of us have felt her presence. I sense things, but don't hear or see. I would want to feel the vibes of the house & cleanse by burning sage if something happened. I have burnt it in my house & we are very happy.

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  81. Anonymous7:21 PM

    No.....deal breaker.

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  82. Not to nitpik, but it's NOT discriminatory to disclose if someone died of AIDS in a house. It IS discriminatory to NOT SELL to someone who has AIDS. Please get your facts straight on this one. AIDS is no different than saying CANCER as to why/how someone died.
    To get technical, NO ONE's medical condition should be known or discussed in this situation. It should be 'died of natural causes'. That's all you need to know.
    If it's a murder/suicide, etc., then there's the whole 'what happened?' and the whole bad karma and the whole, 'what if whoever did it comes back?' thing. Totally different than someone dying of natural causes.

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