One thing I really dislike is when very attractive models or actresses or celebrities say that no one wants to date them and they never get asked out. They might not get asked out by people they want to be asked out by, but they do get asked out. They come into contact with hundreds of people a day, sometimes for weeks or even months on end. The same people just like any other work place and they get asked out. A lot. Sop, when I see things like Victoria Beckham saying that even when she was in the Spice Girls and no one asked her out before David Beckham, I find myself in disagreement with my previous thesis above and say maybe she was not asked out because she rarely smiles and seems like a very unapproachable person.
I think it's a stretch to call VB very attractive. I still can't figure out how she landed DB, one of the sexiest men on the planet.
ReplyDeleteDavid Beckham is no prize pig. In fact, years ago, I thought he was retarded. Has anybody seen the footage of hm trying to sing along to the song HOT HOT HOT? I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I dare ANYBODY to watch it and still call him sexy. It was one of the bonus features from the Bend It Like Beckham DVD.
DeleteI busted something laughing at this!! Beckham also had a really high lady voice and from what I remember she changed him into what he is today.
DeleteI busted something laughing at this!! Beckham also had a really high lady voice and from what I remember she changed him into what he is today.
DeleteExactly. He comes across as not quite right in the head!
DeleteVictoria Beckham is pretty and I think she makes herself quite attractive. She also wasn't nearly as "no smiles" when she was Spice Girlin' as she is now.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a big fan of Victoria, but as a person who has often been told by complete fucking strangers that I should "smile more!", I resent that last phrase...*L*
ReplyDelete@Maja, I'm with you on this one. I have bitchface syndrome but it's not how I feel most of the time!
DeleteI suffer from bitchface too, LOL.
DeleteHave you ever tried to force your neutral face to be like a smile? Then people start moving away because you look like a mental patient....uh yeah me neither.
Deletelol. People think you are un-approachable. I have had 3 boyfriends in the past who said they wanted to ask me out but thought I would say no and they were afraid of rejection. Luckily I am a little aggressive when it comes to those things.
DeleteI'm a bitchface & you guys said it all.
DeleteMy guess is she got propositioned for sex often, but not asked out on dates. At least that was my experience as a single woman.
ReplyDeleteSingle men - want to impress women? Ask her out on a date. Use that word - DATE. Don't try anything on the first date, not even a kiss, but ask her on a second date. You will be *golden*. Hot women get tired of being hit on constantly.
ITA Seachica! Especially hit on by douchebags at work. I'm there to work and do my job, not on the prowl for pathetic peen.
DeleteShe was much more attractive back in the day.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the "never get asked out" thing is usually exaggerated, but I also don't think getting propositioned at a bar by some creep counts as getting asked out. VB also seems kind of shy which probably means that she didn't put herself out there a lot.
ReplyDeleteI realize this is a generalization, but many men are intimidated by attractive, strong and/or smart women. I actually don't doubt her word.
ReplyDeleteI think there is definitely a difference between being slobbered on by some sweaty, wasted jackass, and being asked on a proper date.
ReplyDeleteIf she wasn't so thin, she would be extremely average looking. I believe her. She has been very lucky with her marriage and career, and I think she knows it.
ReplyDeleteI like her...she may not smile but she's funny ... one of the few celebs I like
ReplyDeleteI think Victoria's painfully shy. I believe she's also battled anorexia and bulimia.
ReplyDeleteWhen you're anorexic it's almost a full-time job in itself.... There's no room for a man because once they discover it they want to fix you.
I get called a snob sometimes when I'm just very shy and have problems talking to people. I've also been told to smile all my life. My whole family is like that though - just very quiet and reserved. My parents were like that also.
I'm the same way, tuxedo.people have told me I seemed like a bitchy snob when in reality I'm shy and don't talk a lot unless I get to know someone and choose to open up.
DeleteI agree with everyone here but FSP, your comment makes me sad.
ReplyDeleteYes, there is this thing called TIME and it will slowly erode us all.
Victoria always seemed focused on what she wanted and that was an A list husband. She wasn't going to settle for a plumber for a husband.
ReplyDeleteShe has gotten everything she has wanted in life.
My neutral face is a bit downturned, so I'm always being told to "smile!" as well. It gets old. :-/
ReplyDelete"Single men - want to impress women? Ask her out on a date. Use that word - DATE."
AMEN. Does this not happen anymore?! I'm just finding it obsolete, myself.
I used to get that "you should smile" a lot when I was younger. I would give a polite smile and go on about my business. Now, I would probably tell them to eff off.
ReplyDeleteI would not consider random people asking you out because you are famous the same as an actual request for a date. Perhaps she knew enough to bypass the non-sincere requests.
@hunter - It has not so much to do with age as it does how gaunt she looks now from not eating and plastic surgery.
ReplyDeleteI suffer from bitch face as well! And let me tell you when someone tells me to "Smile"the bitch face gets even bitchier intentionally!
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm in complete agreement that there is a huge difference of having some drunkard come up and hit on you than actually being asked out on a date.
Socially retarded is hard to overcome. There are beautiful people that are so odd that they are still considered the weirdo. At my kids school there is a girl that is GORGOUS. Like early Anna Nicole smith. She is always alone. I asked my kids she was, the response was; super strange, can't hold a conversation, awkward, violates personal space.
ReplyDeleteI'm normal and pretty okay looking (check out my reader photo, you be the judge!), but I very rarely get asked out. I'm not at all quiet, socially reclusive or awkward but I am quite shy with strangers. I can see Victoria being the same.
ReplyDeleteSome of us men are still big fans of real dates. And are intimidated by beautiful strong women, because just like women we focus on our flaws instead of playing to our strengths. Like "She's so beautiful, she'd never date a schlub like me." But that ends up just being a projection of our own shallowness and insecurity onto the other person. It's a vicious cycle.
ReplyDeleteI have a number of single girlfriend that talk about a lack of quality men that approach women.
ReplyDeleteI recall being single and being hit on by overtly aggressive males. It sucks!
Not to say that single gentlemen don't exist but they should step up and make themselves known to more single ladies..I often hear that they seem to be missing..;)
I get the same thing from strangers "Smile!" After years and years of this, I now just say "My mother died yesterday". That usually shuts them up and hopefully think twice before they bug people. Some people who look sad may have good reason to be sad. Sorry for the rant but this is one of my pet peeves.
ReplyDeletelol. When I was pregnant I used that trick a lot. After being asked if you are feeling well or when are you due 20 times a day at work I would look shocked and say- I'm not pregnant.
DeleteI call bs. VB had a couple of serious boyfriends and was even engaged to one of them right before she met David. In the words of MK, "you tried it."
ReplyDeleteChronic Bitchfaces, Unite!!!
ReplyDeleteYes, I also suffer from the combination of BF + Social Awkwardness. It's not a great recipe for making new friends. *L*
Is this why I like coming here so much because we are all so similar in our bitchy socially awkward personalities??!!
ReplyDeleteI consider you all friends just for the record! :)
i remember reading sometime back about how she was self-conscious of smiling bc she didn't like how it made her nose look wider in photos (this was pre-nose job), and bc she had a slight snaggletooth. i remember that stuck w/ me bc i think she's so pretty (w/ or w/o nose job/wonky teefs)...plus i'm one of those perpetual smiling fools so i just don't get that whole bitch face thing.
ReplyDeleteI suffer from extreme bitchface too. This is why VB sounds very approachable to me. lol
ReplyDelete'You should smile more.' 'If you smile more, you could probably get a boyfriend.'
I don't feel like smiling so GTFO
Did she get a nose job..? Or something with her upper lip? She looks different.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone saying she probably got propositioned a lot, but never really asked out, or men were intimidated by a member of one of the worlds biggest pop acts of the time. *shrugs*
I am very approachable looking and it used to bother me when I was a shy teenager but now I have gotten used to it and use it to my advantage in work situations. It doesn't matter where in the world I am, airports, shopping centres, large public events, I will always be the one targeted to be asked where the washroom is, what time is it, traffic directions, etc.
ReplyDeleteI have the feeling the Victoria is one of these people who is rarely happy and is always looking for something or someone for happiness rather than finding it from within herself. I also think men smell desperation and sour personalities a mile off. What is going on in the inside seems to reflect on the outside and a fake smile rarely fools anyone.
She doesn't like her smile, thats why she doesnt smile much.
ReplyDeleteShe did have a serious bf before she was a Spice Girl, I'm sure he tried to do a kiss and tell on her. And when she first got with Beckham she was alot more famous than him.x
We got enough for a *Bitchface* club here! Count me in, I've been told several times that I seem "inapproachable", even grumpy when all I'm doing is going about my business. I can't help it.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I work with someone who is the most friendly, outgoing personal but girl is cray. Seriously, she got some serious issues.
I'm a fan of Victoria and I believe her. She comes across as warm in interviews.
I have the natural bitchface too. People are always telling me to smile when my face is neutral. My bitchface is extra strong today, because I'm at working while everyone else is off :(
ReplyDeleteI believe her. I've worked in the modeling industry and in entertainment for at least 15 years. all the beautiful women are at home on Friday and Saturday night because they just aren't being asked out. It's crazy!
ReplyDeleteThis exactly. Women (and men) I've known that are stunning and work in modeling didn't exactly *advertise* the fact that they spent Friday night alone at home because they already felt terribly insecure about the fact that they'd be out with a group of friends and the guys/gals that would approach would invariably ignore them. My BFF growing up ended up moving to NYC to model. I wasn't exactly a dog myself at that age, but she had that 'it' factor that shone through. She used to believe that there was something "obviously wrong with her from the outside" because we'd go out or to a party and 5 guys would approach me, but none her. Thing is, 4 of those guys were talking to me hoping to meet her (apparently, I'm more approachable) and the last one might or might not depending on the night be interested in me. I'd introduce the 4 to her, she'd think they were talking to her out of politeness, they'd fear rejection... *poof* no date, no communication.
DeleteIt wasn't until we started talking about it seriously that she understood that those guys were using me to try to meet her. Its a weird phenomenon. After that, I'd say "S. this is Jimmy - he wanted to meet you. You might like him, he's interested in photography..." and she knew I was doing a pass off. Meanwhile, before passing Jimmy off, when he delivered the variation on "is your friend single?" I would give him a talk that (when she was) went something like "as a matter of fact she is... But before you go have an awkward conversation where you walk away having not asked her out because the best you can muster is something like 'so, I can't believe a beautiful girl like you is standing over here all alone' which just comes across as cheesy & shallow, what are you interested in? Oh, and if you like her? Just ask her out, if it's mutual, she'll say yes."
I actually had one boyfriend I met b/c of that and he said "Oh no, no! I was asking for my friend over there who is to afraid to approach her. It was actually my excuse to talk to you.' after explaining to him why asking about another woman's single status was not a good way to meet a girl you were interested in, we both retrieved his friend and introduced them. We ended up going on a double date and thinks went beautifully from there.
This exactly. Women (and men) I've known that are stunning and work in modeling didn't exactly *advertise* the fact that they spent Friday night alone at home because they already felt terribly insecure about the fact that they'd be out with a group of friends and the guys/gals that would approach would invariably ignore them. My BFF growing up ended up moving to NYC to model. I wasn't exactly a dog myself at that age, but she had that 'it' factor that shone through. She used to believe that there was something "obviously wrong with her from the outside" because we'd go out or to a party and 5 guys would approach me, but none her. Thing is, 4 of those guys were talking to me hoping to meet her (apparently, I'm more approachable) and the last one might or might not depending on the night be interested in me. I'd introduce the 4 to her, she'd think they were talking to her out of politeness, they'd fear rejection... *poof* no date, no communication.
DeleteIt wasn't until we started talking about it seriously that she understood that those guys were using me to try to meet her. Its a weird phenomenon. After that, I'd say "S. this is Jimmy - he wanted to meet you. You might like him, he's interested in photography..." and she knew I was doing a pass off. Meanwhile, before passing Jimmy off, when he delivered the variation on "is your friend single?" I would give him a talk that (when she was) went something like "as a matter of fact she is... But before you go have an awkward conversation where you walk away having not asked her out because the best you can muster is something like 'so, I can't believe a beautiful girl like you is standing over here all alone' which just comes across as cheesy & shallow, what are you interested in? Oh, and if you like her? Just ask her out, if it's mutual, she'll say yes."
I actually had one boyfriend I met b/c of that and he said "Oh no, no! I was asking for my friend over there who is to afraid to approach her. It was actually my excuse to talk to you.' after explaining to him why asking about another woman's single status was not a good way to meet a girl you were interested in, we both retrieved his friend and introduced them. We ended up going on a double date and thinks went beautifully from there.
I have "thunderbrows" that even with nice grooming if I have a serious or sad thought, they just seem to exponentially magnify those feelings on my face.
ReplyDeleteSomething I discovered though...I too used to get the "Smile!" thing from people and it drove me crazy until I realized that people who say that are really controlling people. You just don't walk up to someone and command them to do something. So now when people do that it doesn't bother me anymore because it's their issue not mine.
Thanks @lurky Loo. I'm reading a book on Controlling People (by Patricia Evans) right now trying to learn how to deal with the psycho I work with who has everyone convinced she's perfect. People like that, controllers, make you feel like its YOU thats not conforming.
ReplyDelete@Hothotheat,
ReplyDeleteThreadjack ;>! I just finished reading that book. I thought it was excellent and it sure has come in handy. Wish I had access to it years ago. Interesting about controlling people...they get this picture in their head about how things should be and then thye drive everyone crazy trying to make them match that picture. Good luck with your situation ;>
Who tells someone to smile? I have never told someone I don't know personally to smile.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't the ladies ask us guys out? I don't ask any women out on a date because after being told no enough you just give up. Equal opportunity..ask a dude out damnit!
@imakenosense believe it or not women also get mixed messages from men. My partner doesn't mind having a girl approach him (actually that's how we met) but I have other guy friends who wouldn't consider going out with a girl who asked them out as they like "the chase"
Delete*shrugs* I don't get it either :)
So sometimes a girl just doesn't know what to do!
Pretty much. I agree. If you want to date someone you find interesting, ask him out. This isn't the 1950s.
ReplyDeleteI wrote about this a while ago - a guy at a bar asked me, and I quote, "why do you always look like you fucking hate everybody?"
ReplyDelete"I'm sorry", I said, "this is just my face".
I found his comment to be both condescending and hurtful - he clearly thought that my facial expression- or lack thereof - was a shortcoming, and he needed to point it out, in front of people. Just to make sure I knew.
Lurky Loo is absolutely right - it IS a trait of a very controlling person, in combination with someone who is a bit insecure and a little bit tense. And it IS their problem, not mine. Start a conversation with me about something that interests me (but I have to warn you, my interests are limited *L*), or tell me something interesting about yourself (quite the challenge, isn't it?) and you'll find out that I am both intelligent and quite charming. And I DO smile. Just, usually not for no reason *L*.
I think this has been one of my most favorite threads on this site.
ReplyDeletePeople tell you to smile more?
ReplyDeleteMy bitch face is so strong people don't talk to me, let alone tell me to smile more. And that's how I like it!
Also, I love Posh!
ReplyDeleteI also have the bitch face!!!
ReplyDeletePeople would always tell me to smile, so I would for an instant and then go back to my bitchface!
But the funny thing is if someone needs directions or if I am on the subway people always tend to ask me or tell me shit that I just don't want to hear! How could I have a bitch face and be the person that looks like she would listen to you? Weird!!
I remember when they first came out in the states, Ginger Spice (Gerri) did an interview and said that they had already been big hits in different parts of the world. The quote was something like "Different countries have their favorites. Country A loves Scary, Country B loves me,Country C loves Baby and Country D loves Sporty. The only one who hasn't been adopted by a country yet is Posh"
ReplyDeleteWhich at the time struck me as funny, since she obviously wanted to be The Prettiest Spice.
Ahhh I'm so happy I'm not the only one with BITCHFACE around here!!!
ReplyDeleteI, just like VB, do not like my smile and see no reason to show it to complete strangers to make them feel better about their day. I've had someone say to me, "Smile, things can't be that bad for you." I would never say that to anyone as a conversation starter. I will always remember what you said about those kind of people @Lurky Loo =)
I have bitchface as well. I have made a conscious effort to not have it. I have heard "smile, it's not that bad" numerous times. I really don't walk around in a foul mood too often, I have no idea how I have a natural bitchface. Glad to see I'm not alone!
ReplyDeleteVB has really won me over through the years with the occasional glimpse at a person that seems to be very different than what she projects publicly. I bet she'd be fun to party with!
ReplyDeleteI suppose I don't understand why not the smile?
ReplyDeleteMy mom told me once to save my smile and I asked her why, since it was free and earned me a smile in return.
First time I saw her speechless.
@ablake I love that line!
ReplyDeleteI don't have natural bitchface.BRine is more of a 'worried' look on my face. Never had a stranger tell me smile though, I can't believe the audacity of some people. I don't know what I'd do if a stranger told me to smile.
Having said that, I gotta say I do smile at strangers when walking around my neighborhood and I love it when they smile back. Sense of community and all that
:)
Oh and I love VB - I think the turning point for me was a show they did when they moved to LA. She was so funny and down to earth and just seemed fun. About her smile I remember watching an interview where that she didn't smile in pap pics because it's so intense she just keeps her head down and remains stoic (and I think she joked you can't get a bad photo of her that way!)
Man, I hate that when people demand for me to smile! The worst was when in a waiting room after an appointment that went badly and I was very upset. Dude first started with the "Smile!" and then started asking me out. Not the "you need a shoulder to cry on" kinda thing; he was the type that asks out every woman he sees.
ReplyDeleteIf you replace "smile" with "hopping on one foot" it becomes much easier to see why it's annoying for a person to demand you start grinning for no reason.
Call me crazy and old-fashioned, but I strongly believe in The Rules, and I second what BlindItemMe said. Anecdotally, when men are asked if they'd be flattered to be asked out, they say "yes," but the chase is taken away from them and they lose interest FAST. It's just a biological thing and I believe in it.
ReplyDeleteMind you, I am a feminist regarding things like business and equal pay, but men and women ARE different when it comes to romance, and some things just don't change.
Feel free to debate with me on this, anyone, but be nice. :-)
She was funny in the movie I was forced to watch repeatedly by child the rabid Spicefan. Grrrpowah!! I don't miss that crap.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Seachica. It's nice to be told, "I'd like to take you out to a nice dinner", rather than " baby you got a great ass, gimme some of that, mmm mmm MM!" and variations thereof. If they're hot, then they probably have heard that they're hot. Most women are looking for something real, and long term. The best pick up line I have ever heard is, " Hi, my name is ....., can I take you out to dinner?
ReplyDelete