Just one day after posting a new music video, No Doubt pulled it down because of negative comments from the Native American community. No Doubt checked with native American groups and communities and researchers to make sure they were not offending anyone with their cowboy and Native American themed video, but apparently people were still upset so they pulled it. The video, Looking Hot, is the second video off their album Push And Shove which is the group's first album in over a decade.
No Doubt - Looking Hot by jimihubabua
Not going to watch it because I can't stand No Doubt, but what a sickening waste of time and resources. Epic fail.
ReplyDeleteYou would think they would have better songs since they had 10 years to come up with new material. Very disappointed with this new album.
ReplyDeleteHow is this offensive? Honestly sometimes I think people just complain because they can.
ReplyDeleteGwen Stephani's got a long track record of pissing people off for cultural and/or racial ignorance/co-optation (her Harajuka Girls half a decade ago, for example). I don't know what the fuck her problem is.
ReplyDeletewow gwen looks sooo good. that red dress is amazing. maybe they can edit it down to just be a bit less repressing to the natives and have more of a vague hot indian vibe?
ReplyDeleteGwen is hawt.
ReplyDeleteAnd so more publicity is generated for the song.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, how weak do you have to be to (allegedly) put a lot of thought and research into something, only to pull it when a couple people complain? Either do it right (to the best of your ability) and stand by your work or just stay home and cash those royalty checks from past hits. Sheesh, what weak-ass "artists."
ReplyDeletebut they threw Johnny Depp a parade for playing Tonto? (and yes i know he claims he is part cherokee but his ancestory is french he is a white man)
ReplyDeleteNo Johnny Depp appeared during an annual parade that's part of an entire annual weekend celebrating the Comanche Nation. He was invited because the Comanche Nation made him an honorary member after a member requested he be adopted thru traditional ceremony
DeleteI think it is okay. The only thing that bothered me was she was running into the desert with those high heels. Ouch.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand how this couldn't be perceived as offensive..
ReplyDeleteI can see nothing offensive about this video, but then again I'm not an oversensitive prig.
ReplyDeleteIt's actually a very stylish clip.
How is this offensive? Yes, it is a white woman in the role if a Native American, but she is the lead singer. Of course she is going to be the "star" of the video. I think they used that theme mainly for fashion purposes.
ReplyDelete@Jean-yes, you'd think they wold have a better album but this one really is not great. A song or two tops. I mean I had to force myself to listen to it. Think it's her longing teen ager lyrics.
ReplyDeleteIf this video was featuring a male lead singer, probably no one would have found offence.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cam. Some people just exist to be pissed off at something.
ReplyDeleteIf Native Americans were *truly* pissed off, it was probably at 2:26 when the ska vibe kicked in. lol.
The video was NOT as bad as the song. It took them so long to come up with THIS???
DeleteI quite enjoyed it but I can't see why I'd be in the minority, No Doubt are capable of better and people expect that.
ReplyDeleteI've done research on cultural appropriation after a huge debate blew up in the indie make up world, when a business used a stereotypical and very offensive marketing campaign to push their product. They refused the pull the product or change the campaign, or even acknowledge their misstep which hurt their already quite poor reputation.
I realise that as a white woman in the developed world there are certain thing I may do that could offend other cultures, and it really opened my eyes to what step you can take to enjoy other culture without 'appropriating' it.
The fact that they did consult with Native tribes does make me think some people will just complain about anything, but maybe some context what have helped. I personally thought it was beautifully done, not offensively trite and stereotypical. And I agree with say cheese, that dress is stunning!
Ah! CAN see, not CAN'T. Silly me.
ReplyDeletebut is she dressed as a squaw it would of been ok?
ReplyDeleteWould have?
DeleteI think the real reason they pulled it is because the song is horrendously bad. Seriously. One of the worst songs I have ever heard. I'm equally embarrassed for and disappointed in them.
ReplyDeleteI have to say I'm pretty shocked at the comments. It IS offensive because the aboriginal communities in this country have been systematically destroyed and subsequently ridiculed in American popular culture for years.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that they even chose the "cowboys/Indians" meme is bad enough.
Other people's cultural representations, clothing, and features ARE NOT COSTUMES. They are part of the diversity of the human race.
Take your mind back and think of how many times you have seen members of minority communities dressed up as "White Americans"? How many times in popular culture have you seen this, really??
Hardly ever is the answer - mainstream pop culture reserves the right to ridicule minority communities by dressing up models in black or "yellow" face, or in this case, making a dumb song even dumber by making this video.
I'll say one more thing: they didn't check with native American groups. If they had, they wouldn't have made the video in the first place. And they wouldn't have pulled it so quickly.
I don't see what's so offensive except for the song that sucks
ReplyDeleteLong time lurker. Instead of looking at this from a pop culture/gossip perspective (though that is the point of this site) lets look at it from another perspective: http://tequilasovereign.blogspot.ca/2012/11/an-open-letter-to-hipster-indian-dufus.html
ReplyDeleteFrankly, watching G.S. don redface and haul her 40 year old a** around in a desperate attachment to her youth makes me think Madge would be green with envy that there is a group that she has neglected to offend.
Lol!!! Brilliant!
Delete@timebob the use of the word "squaw" is extremely offensive to first nations women and frankly I am tired of the term "off the reservation" to describe rogue behavior - I am off the reservation and lived a nice quite existence we do however equate the s word with the n word and as for the video sick to death of our culture being misappropated and demeaned. I don't exist to be pissed off I wish some of you would take a stroll in our beaded footwear for a day but no doubt some of you paided hundreds of dollars for moccasins made in china
ReplyDeleteI made it to the bridge of the song. I found the clip to be quite artistic and done respectfully to the Native American community but then I am not Native American so I don't know about this one...
ReplyDeleteUmm, so it's ok for Die Antwoord to paint themselves black and the only flack they caught was from Lady Gaga cause they used a man to portray her(not to mention they said she had prawns in her twat)?
ReplyDelete@E.Du Bois I totally agree with you -- I would also be interested to know who they contacted for opinions.
ReplyDeleteI would hate to think that this video was Native American-themed in order to get attention for the group, which has been under pressure to produce a record for many years now. That is probably the case, though. Anything to get attention, which equals money in future concert ticket sales.
The video will advertise itself for years to come on YouTube as a banned video...
I find it interesting that so many are able to speak so authoritatively and decisively about the Native American perspective.
ReplyDeleteThere are some 500 Nations - there is no one singular Native American culture or experience because there are many. This includes different languages, philosophies and cultural practices.
It is suspicious that No Doubt contacted Native American representatives simply based upon how they refer to Native Americans - which nation were they trying to emulate? Frankly, I'm not sure any professor or student of cultural studies or Native Am would have green lighted this portrayal and certainly not without discussing all of the issues it would raise.
@redronnie, I stand with you. I am proud of my heritage and I studied Native Am. For those of you who see no problem, I'm sorry for your lack of knowledge. But even more, I'm sorry that you cannot see beyond your own experience of the world and that you seem so comfortable assuming a role of superiority when it comes to dismissing the rights and respect of others.
Commenters who acknowledged that their might be another perspective, thank you.
*stands and applauds*
DeleteFor the people here who are Native American, may I ask if there is ever a time you have felt your culture has been tastefully (or at least non offensively) portrayed? I only ask because in the case of the indie make up brand I mentioned above, there were many of that particular culture who weren't offended at the idea, just the execution of it.
ReplyDeleteI not quite sure why they wanted to do this in the first place. They may not have worked in the last 10 years but they didnt spend that time keeping up with current events either.
ReplyDeleteWe dont do stuff like this anymore, no matter how tastefully.
I humbly beg to differ. I believe there's a great awareness of cultural appropriation but a big reason for that is the campaigning against it. There's still people who dress up as china dolls, russian brides, and yes, Indians (I refuse to say Native American out of respect, they are wearing a costume not a culture).
ReplyDeleteI refer you to want I'm reading up on just now, http://mycultureisnotatrend.tumblr.com/ & also the campaign We're A Culture, Not A Costume - written about here http://www.cnn.co.uk/2011/10/26/living/halloween-ethnic-costumes/index.html
E. DuBois, it was always my belief that other members of minority groups did not dress up as White Americans because white Americans are boring ;)
ReplyDeleteAnyone whining about them dressing up as Indians needs to STFU. Can anyone do anything anymore without "offending " someone. Jesus Christ, get over it. Bunch of whiny babies.
ReplyDeleteSo rude.
Delete@EDuBois
ReplyDeleteI agree! Why did Gwen have to dress up like a Native American? Why not get into her own ethnic group, Italian American? I'm sure there is lots to look into there. Tony is part Indian (from India), so why not have a good time with that?
I'm offended that people feel feather headdresses should be fashion. Those are sacred items that require specific items. To fake them with dyed turkey feathers is a not a fashion statement. It's an insult to all the hardships faced since the time when such dress was common. Being native isn't about looking like the cover of a Harlequin romance novel. It's alcoholism, rape and dying before the average American.
ReplyDeleteIf they felt they needed to seek approval in hopes of not being offensive, then they shouldn't have gone with that concept.
ReplyDeleteI might have worded it a little more sensitively than @sarasmile but generally I agree that political correctness has run WAY amuck. Bigotry should be condemned, yes. But we have gone way too far the other way in labeling EVERYTHING as offensive.
ReplyDeleteBtw, my maternal grandmother was a Cherokee Indian (which makes me 1/4 Cherokee).
Which makes it ok for you to agree with an offensive video?
DeleteThank you to those who have responded in support of Native American communities. I'm on my mobile, so I'm having trouble mentally compiling a list of names, but thank you. We still exist. Not all of us get "all that casino money." These costumes are the equivalent of blackface, regardless of how tastefully some of you others may think this video was done. And whocaresnow is absolutely correct - if they had to ask they shouldn't have done it.
ReplyDeleteI put this on the same level as Chris Brown's Halloween costume. Everyone was outraged by that, but this video is not offending anyone? Why not? Instead people who are offended are considered "too sensitive." Really? Where is the line drawn?
ReplyDeleteThank you!
DeleteI love no doubt and Gwen but this cd was bs. She looks beautiful. I don't get the video, why even make it Native American? Doesn't fit the song. Eh.
ReplyDelete@sarasmile4641 I'm not sure if you know, but the word 'Indian' used with respect to Native Americans and First Nations peoples is considered antiquated, not to mention inaccurate. The explorer who started the term 'Indian', as most people know, thought he was in Asia when he began using that term.
ReplyDeleteI'm aware that governments still use the word 'Indian'.
@Short...
ReplyDeleteNo. It makes it okay for me not to be offended by everything that ostensibly portrays my heritage.
BTW, (and I'm not attacking you, @short) it is helpful if you "@" whomever you are responding to. If you are reading the full site, replys to specific posts don't show up as such. They show up as an inline post (as if you posted a comment at the end of all other comments).
ReplyDeleteSometimes, I have to refer to my phone to figure out if someone is responding to me, to someone else, or just in general.
Thanks. :)
trust me I wish I was native american, especially the ones that lay claim to all that prime Palm Springs, CA land they rent out. They make a mint off it.
ReplyDeleteThanks for all the soap boxes, it's a stupid video and crappy music regardless of head dress or not.
I'm sorry, as a person of white privilege I may come off as patronising (not my intent but its so difficult to convey tone!) but I actually take issue with anyone who uses 'I'm a fraction of tribe'. Unless you have lived it, felt it and been abused by it, you simply can not know how it is to be marginalised. Saying my great granny's uncle was in such and such tribe doesn't give you first hand knowledge of the injustices they suffered unless you are still there, unless you have felt prejudice because of your standing. I could say oh but I get stereotyped as Scottish, as being a violent alcoholic, but I have never suffered anything more than an insult (and maybe a hurt hand when I've attacked them in a drunken rage, of course!). To say I understand and I feel the same would be completely disingenuous. I can empathise perhaps, maybe even feel for the injustice of it all, but I've never walked a mile in a minority's shoes. I simply do not know.
ReplyDeleteIn cases of cultural appropriation, there will be people of that culture who will take offense, and people who will not. That's less cultural and more individual nature. But to say I'm not offended, or I don't understand why you are, is to impose on that minority yet again, perpetuating the vicious circle. It'll only stop when people understand differing opinions do not fall under 'right' or 'wrong' categories, and that an opposing opinion doesn't make yours any less valid. There is such a thing as intelligent discourse, you know. I respect that No Doubt made a mistake and they listened to their fans straight away instead of arguing that it wasn't meant to be taken in that way. I respect people who don't agree with the video at all. I do not respect the people who call others morons or idiots for clearly stating why they are offended.
/endrant - sorry for rabbiting on. Disagreement is one thing but disrespect, especially that borne out of ignorance, is totally my berserk button.
@Miz... I honestly respect your opinion but I'll ask, does it make me more authentic to say that I have literally sat at my grandmother's knee and heard HER stories (from her...not passed down) of growing up,marginalized, cruelly discriminated against in a small early/mid 20th century Oklahoma town. Of being sent to a mental hospital (no "mental health facilities") in a different, small, Oklahoma town and being given EST, daily, because she was an Indian who gave birth to a white man's baby (My mother, who had a hard time, as a child, being accepted by either side) out of wedlock? Just because I haven't personally experienced that doesn't mean that I am so far removed that I don't intimately understand, and feel the pain, of my grandmother's suffering. At some point, yes, the removal becomes so vast that the people it happened to are just names. I'm not going to draw that line because who am I to say that "x" is far enough removed. For me, personally, it is still very much a part of who I am and how I identify. Just because I pass as 100 percent white doesn't mean that I'm not intimately familiar with, and intimately connected to, my heritage (and proud to be my grandmother's 1/4 Cherokee granddaughter) .
DeleteThat said, I still believe that pc has run amuck and that legitimate issues get buried in all the distraction of people clutching their pearls.
There are much bigger issues facing NAs (and many other minorities) for me to get upset because No Doubt is playing Cowboys and Indians in their video (note that the video makes the cowboys/girls look like drunken idiots).
Also, @Miz...respectfully...you state that differing opinions shouldn't fall under "right" or "wrong" categories but then, in essence, you say that my opinion is "wrong" and imposes on minorities (a minority which, in this instance, members of my family happen to be a part). Which is it?
Delete(of course we could all also view this under the proviso that opinions are like assholes...everybody has one, and leave it at that)
im native american, and i hear about native americans getting upset alot, (i cant think of the other time right now) i say, if she wants to look like the 'crazy new age white woman' dancing around at the pow-wows during an intertribal, then let her! and no offense to any crazy new age white women! :OP
ReplyDeleteThey should have dressed as Cowboys and technical support call center employees. Leave the native Americans out of it.
ReplyDeleteWell, @lola, I understand why you feel connected to your heritage, and that's a positive thing, even given the circumstances and sad history of how Native Americans have been treated. My main issue (not particularly with you, but in general) is that I hear and see a lot of people identify as Native to prove their point. if it was another culture in the frame, they would more than likely say the same thing without using 'and its my culture too' as a qualifier, if that makes sense? Like I said, whether or not you are offended by a particular thing relies, I believe, more on your personal view on the world rather than how you would culturally identify yourself as. I've seen an old family friend, born and raised in Pakistan, laugh his head at jokes about his culture that I baulk at. I can laugh at Aussie jokes (which in a lot of ways are similar to Scottish ones, I find) - but find no humour in jokes about the Aboriginal. Maybe it's because I know they, as well as the Native People, are still at a huge disadvantage in today's world.
ReplyDeleteIn short, I wouldn't diminish your experience as you have it, but there are people who explain away the fact that they're not offended so no one else should be (or at least it seems to be the implication in the way they word it) because they're 1/16 Cherokee, and yet the only real experience they've even had was pointing out a car window to a reservation on their way to Disneyland.
I pretty much fought the same battle during the make up debacle. The saddest thing I read was, 'but its pretty and it happened years ago so they should just get over it and stop hating. It's ruining everyone's else fun'. Out of the mouths of babes. There was no thought of maybe finding out if they needed to listen to what people were saying.
I apologise if I came across as saying you were wrong. That wasn't my intent. That particular thought goes to the people unwilling to having a respectful discussion with a view to learning. I absolutely respect an opposing opinion, and funnily enough, I do think the video was quite beautiful in its way. It's not having an opinion I feel is wrong. It's refusing to acknowledge that other views are just as valid and should be respected even if you don't agree with them, not 'everyone who takes offence/everyone who doesn't understand why it's offensive - are morons and that's that'. Bad times.
ReplyDelete@Miz, I appreciate your response. I seriously don't mind discourse on why someone disagrees with me and we certainly agree that too often differing opinions are not respected (fairly, sometimes they shouldn't be). Please don't think I was offended by your post, I just wanted to clarify my 1/4 Cherokee statement was not on the same level as "I have lots of *insert minority* friends, so I can be offensive" (which reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Tim Watley converts to Judaism so he can tell offensive Jewish jokes without being called out as bigoted.) The main reason I even pointed out my connection is someone above asked about the views of Native Americans (which I don't claim to be...entirely...but for the above reasons, I feel very connected to the sense of discrimination felt by them).
ReplyDeleteI think that was me, actually! When I write from my iPad I get a photo, from my phone, I don't. Very odd.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, this is the sort of chat I enjoy most, life is a classroom after all. I reading back on what I've wrote I can see how I could have worded it better. As white woman, with a mostly European lineage, I know no amount of empathy will let me truly grasp the horrors minorities have suffered, with many cultures still healing new wounds over old scars. I know having this discussion opens me up to the whys and wherefores of racism, cultural appropriation and bigotry, but I should remember there's a fine line between compassion and condescension.
There's no real easy, quick fix answer to this sort of thing, where one sees appreciation, others may appropriation. My main goal, I suppose, is to make people realise sometimes, even with the best of intentions, the former will always be looked upon as the latter. And that its not hateful for a person to speak up about it. By speaking up, the potential of growth and understanding can be brought forward, on both sides of the argument.
Thanks for letting me ramble on. You've given me some food for thought! :)
I don't get the outrage...
ReplyDeleteThen again...I didn't get the Madonna outrage, the Gaga outrage, the Eminem outrage... There just isn't anything that outrageous anymore in art.
Excuse me?!? No one dresses up as White Americans?! Are you kidding me?! How many go as lazy, smoozy car salesman or insurance people? Or colonel Sander types? How many go as prostitues or sluts, a la white trash? Really, how many Honey Boo Boo and fam costumes were out there this year? Or whatever other fine exemplar of American culture can be dreampt up? Pregnant snookies or Kartrashians? Sure, Jersey shore people like to say they are Italian, but they are so removed, it's laughable; Kartrashians are half Armenia and don't speak a lick and probably have never been. They are American. People dress us ALL the TIME. I'm Italian. Do I like mock italian weddings in frats? Mafia jokes? The fake accents in commercials for sugared up crap "spaghetti" sauce? "Chef" Boyardee (sp?!) products? The fact that the Olive Garden's background music is the f'g Godfather soundtrack? How about that their secret "Italian" dressing is Kraft with two egg yolks added... It could all be insulting, but it's people's interpretation and ignorance. It doesn't insult me, nor would it cause me to boycot a college, a product or whatever (no, I wouldn't eat that crap, but not bc of the ignorance, but bc it's sh*t food).
ReplyDeleteTo the point: there is nothing offensive in this video, unless you are just out for being offended and like to be an impactically, unreasonaly sensitive twat. In fact, the "Native" Tony saved the day, the Americans looked like drunk jerks, etc. Kids have played cowboys an' indians (ooooh excuse me, Native Americans) forever, bc it is a known controversy. The Natives were treated like crap; it was so wrong - we ALL know it.
No one dresses as white people .. that's hilarious. Plenty dress as white people, usually stupid white people or trashy white people or embarrassing as f*ck white people. Also, try to remember, Americans are muts, so people go to character or history. Big F'g DeaL. History happened. No Doubt are pussies for pulling their video.
Stereotyping is not art, it is ignorance. I am not 1/4 or 1/2 my culture my heritage is Aishinnabe. I am invited to schools to discuss stereotypical images and the myths attached to First Nations people. We are still impacted by the devastation of the residential school legacy and the dysfunction cycles of poverty and addictions. Rarely are we shown in an accurate representation in the media. The colonial image continues to dominate the media, perpetuating an false ideal of who we are this imagery contributes to the continued marginalization and racism. It is difficult to teach my granddaughters they are equal and yet distinct. With the growing numbers of missing and murdered Aboriginal women, watch the video again and view it from our perspective.
ReplyDeleteOver the weekend, I saw a group of posters gang up on someone they had labeled a 'troll'; I'm amazed they were culturally sensitive then but some have changed their tune now. Maybe we need to know Native Americans in real life/online before we actually care. Fucking shame on them and on No Doubt.
ReplyDeleteOn the grand scale of things, IMO this is just a blip. Of course when you have the MAC Rodarte makeup campaign to compare it to...
ReplyDeleteAnd before anyone gets all "you just don't understand" with me, yes I do. I am a American Indian and can trace my roots back to the Aztecs and the Spaniards. Heck I had family fighting on all sides at the Alamo. And the last 'first person' account to my direct line is, my Grandfather was born in a Mission, and sadly that Mission burnt down.
I can honestly see why some would be offended, and I can see why many are not.
I have enjoyed reading everyones thoughts on this and glad that this is turning into a really good discussion, and not a fight fest.
And like I said earlier, if you want outrage or something to be really offended by, just google MAC Rodarte makeup collection. That was an epic, and moral fail.
@Jemtastic This particular troll, whose name begins with "o" was making racist insults to another poster. I spoke up about that, because I don't think that should be tolerated in even an open forum.
ReplyDeleteI know quite a bit about Native Culture because my three children are half First Nations, and my oldest boy looks totally 100 percent Native Canadian.
They are citizens of their father's Nation.
I remember the Rodarte campaign. Stupid, silly mistake that never should have got past the throwing random ideas around phase. I stopped buying from MAC for a long time after that, and felt so rotten when I went to replace brushes there that I've swore of them for good. Illamasqua is better anyway :)
ReplyDeleteI can't believe someone got annoyed and pointed out the amount of people who dress as 'white folk'. About half of those examples were actual people, parodies of already larger than live celebrities. The others, yes I can understand why a mafia gangster in insulting to Italians, but the difference is you aren't making light of a STILL marginalised people. You're making of a monster. A criminal. I know white trash is unkind, but again, these aren't people who have been brutalised for centuries. These people aren't a culture, a people who have been systemically abused by people who took much more than land away.
Put it this way - a war bonnet is a honour reserved only for men (and don't get me started on the so called feminist implications), not as a fashion accessory. It is highly symbolic and a great honour of the men who battled bravely. It has great spiritual and ceremonial importance to this day. It is a carefully crafted ritual to make one, and there are even war bonnets all over the world in museums because they are that valuable and rare,
You can buy a trucker hat in Walmart. Don't worry if you lose it, you can just buy another one.
"These aren't people who have been brutalised for centuries."
ReplyDelete^THIS.
I'm Italian American, proud to be, and even I baulked at that rant. Of course I think Jersey Shore is a bullshit representation of Italian Americans, but they are not oppressing already oppressed people by feeding into this stereotype.
I have always been intrigued by the question "Can black people be racist by definition?" I read somewhere that no they cannot because "all groups must exist in a state of equality" for that to be true. And let's be honest. Racial groups today to not exist in a state of equality. The argument with Native Americans can also apply here. Just a topic I find quite interesting.
I remember a few years back when.Miley did that slanted eye bullsh*t and people bitched about political correctness. I've noticed that many white people- not all, of course, but many- think something is racist only if it's directed.at Black people. It's the only type of racism they can understand. There are many other ethnicities. Everyone deserves respect. I wonder if the same people who feel.that people are just too sensitive would feel the same if they were somehow being disrespected. Everyone is "too sensitive" until THEY are the ones on the other end. I encourage people to read.up on, and acknowledge, white privilege. No, it doesn't mean white people are bad and evil or any of that crap. It just means as white people we have an inherent privilege that is so internalized very few of us know it exists. It is worthwhile to examine yourself and your position in society.
ReplyDeleteIt is ALSO worthwhile to examine why someone would get upset by people being offended by something like this. The only reasons I can think of is their privilege feels threatened, or they're just so unaware of the world outside their own experience that they can't even imagine someone else's world, and certainly don't see it as just as important as theirs.
As for this video, the fact that No Doubt had to ask at ALL implies that they WERE DEFINITELY aware that what they were.doing was problematic. If they still wanted.to do it, fine, go ahead. But don't feign ignorance or act surprised when someone calls you on it.