It is that time again, where readers share with all of us, their latest treasures from various dating websites. This letter comes from a doctor, who explained to our reader all about his open marriage. Could someone explain to me what a MOT is? I'm assuming it is not some apple juice religion because that would be Motts.
Hi there,
Hope this finds you well - I'll admit I was a little nervous emailing you but taking the plunge her I guess.
My name is David, I'm 34 years old (I hope the age difference isn't too much) - I'm professionally educated and gainfully employed - I'm actually a doc - but not an ego centric kind - (I majored in sociology in college and therefore was able to retain an inner core of decency and humanity within me that they weren't able to strip away in medical school). I was out on the east coast for 8 years for college/med school and came home to Detroit for training and now work.
As you will no doubt read my profile - let me take a moment update/explain. My wife and I are in an open marriage. We're good friends - roommates more or less. Our marriage was great on paper - in reality there we just weren't compatible for various reasons. 2 years ago we decided on this route knowing it would be a slippery slope which we have slid down to the point that we are getting divorced. We remain good friends and I'm confidant it will be amicable. She has had a serious boyfriend for the last 8 months - and while my work schedule is a bit more demanding, I have had the opportunity to date here and there - but it is a little harder to be a married guy trying to meet girls than a married gal trying to do the same - just the way it is I guess.
Anyways - I love to travel - in an ideal world I'd love to find a fun travel companion. I get 9 weeks of vacation a year - my wife hates to travel - one of the reasons of many we just didn't gel. I like to think I'm fun, easy going and laid back - but we all have our idiosyncrasies right? I promise I"m 'normal' - my wife is on sites and i've seen some of the messages she receives and it's insane!
I apologize that my face photo is not on my profile, but I promise to send you one should your interest be there. It's just that very few of our friends and family are aware of our situation and for discretion I don't have my face pic on my profile. I'm also an MOT (thought not super observant) - hence the small nervousness given the small community etc.. If you give me an email address I'll happily oblige with a photo.
In any event, hope you're fall is off to a good start. This is my favorite time of the year!
Warm Regards
David
mot= member of the tribe = jewish. Wikipedia...
ReplyDeleteA jewish doctor who doesn't want to get married? Seriously..I'm okayy with open marriages, if only I lived in Detroit
ReplyDeleteI just love new excuses as to a)why a person is still married when it isn't right and b)why there's no profile photo on a damn dating site.
ReplyDeleteM= Man
O= Out
T= Trolling for chicks
I think it's inappropriate to sign up for online dating if you're not yet divorced. I did online dating a few years back & was surprised at the amount of guys who were separated for quite some time & hadn't bothered to get divorced.
ReplyDeleteThis one doesnt seem too bad to me.....
ReplyDeleteThis one doesnt seem too bad to me.....
ReplyDeleteYou'd think a doctor would know it's "your fall" and not "you're fall". Yes, good grammar is important! But I work with doctors, and some of them are shockingly unintelligent.
ReplyDeleteWhen I did online dating I was hit on all the time by married guys who were "getting divorced soon" I told them to write back when the divorce was final. I was always careful about asking marital status when the communication went to phone calls, and weeded out quite a few that way. I was only fooled once - he told me he was divorced - we met for drinks - he said something that made me realize he was still married. When I said "you told me you were divorced" he said, "well, I'm emotionally divorced." I ordered another drink, said I had to go to the bathroom, and took off. He had the nerve to call me the next day to find out why I dumped him!
ReplyDeleteI find this guy's story to be equally suspicious.
To be a doctor you meed a 3.8 average undergrad. That means acing your English classes. This guy didn't. He's lying. Not a doctor.
ReplyDeleteI don't find this offensive either, just being careful (since as you can see it is on CDAN imagine if a pix was attached?)
ReplyDeleteBut honest enough to explain his marital status, which TMI for a profile, but the older people get the more baggage and messier their legal marital status seems to be.
I had a freind who dated a guy for awhile who was seperated (not even legally). My friend put her foot down and said get divorced or its over. It's not that he didn't want to get divorced, he and his ex were just lazy about it. But, he did and two years later they are happily married now.
P.S. David, you might want to try ashleymadison.com that might be more up your alley.
What 34 year old doctor gets 9 weeks vacay a year? Something in the milk ain't clean...
ReplyDelete"I majored in sociology in college and therefore was able to retain an inner core of decency and humanity within me that they weren't able to strip away in medical school"
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm going to need to see a receipt for this.
What kind of courtship was there if you don't know your wife hates to travel before you sign on the dotted line?
@jemtastic, see a receipt! Brilliant! lolol
Deleteaww, he sounded so nice before the still being married line. sneaking around is ugly, no matter the reason. plus, ot takes the joy of of the relationship. when you're in love, or even just starting out with a new potential love, you want to share that with people.
ReplyDelete@TT, I guess you never make typos or your phone corrects you?
ReplyDeleteHe forgot a comma after "Regards" also. He must be a high school drop out. (you said "meed" instead of "need"...are you a drop out too?) :rolling eyes:
(Sorry, I just get sick of "he's not a doctor" or "he's not a lawyer" because people make spelling mistakes or don't write like Ernest frickin' Hemingway.)
Let's see, guy looking for gal to travel. Quite a reasonable story, one that justifies the need to keep all aspects of dating on "the downlow". So basically, an attached guy, probably not in an open marriage, probably not a doctor.
ReplyDeleteAs to this letter, it's not really offensive but I might be inclined to insist on an okay from the wife before dating (if she' been dating someone for 8 months that shouldn't be a problem, right?)
ReplyDeleteI do have to say that I was separated (living in different homes) for 2 years before finally getting divorced. Part of it was laziness and part of it was retaining benefits. I couldn't have cared less if he dated someone else and would have been happy to tell a potential girlfriend so.
Does not sound too bad if he SAYS he is getting divorced. Hell I too am looking for someone who loves to travel, if I was only in Detroit (Not!).
ReplyDeleteAgree with the comments about the number of married guys trolling on dating sites. Why would you expect any self-respecting woman to accept sharing you with your wife? If you're still married, than you still have an attachment there. I never believed a guy who said their wife was ok with them dating -- and it's not surprising that often the wife would have a different perspective on it.
ReplyDeleteIt's simple, folks. Finish up old business before starting new business. Don't expect me to take on your baggage.
On a more positive note, my fiancé and I posted our engagement story to Tumblr.
Http://valerieanddan.tumblr.com
@seachica Looked up your engagement story on tumblr. Very, very nice and congratulations! Paris! Well done. Live near Seattle, also.
DeleteI just read your tumblr, Congratulation!! That story is so sweet and I'm a sucker for romantic love stories!
Delete@Lola:
ReplyDeleteMy GPA was nowhere near 3.8...and I got a B in English...
lol most guy aren't going to sit home alone until they got their signed piece of paper, mens libidos don't work that way. But it's a nice thought.
ReplyDeleteA doctor who works for a hospital or a medical practice with partners would have a vacation deal.
ReplyDeleteTimebob - if they can't manage their libidos, then don't ask me manage it for them.
ReplyDeleteHe's a doctor and he still can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're".....yeah....riiiight.....and I'm the Queen of England,too! {snort}
ReplyDelete@Seachica - Aww, what a lovely story! Congratulations on your engagement. I have read about that bridge before so I think it is incredibly romantic. :)
ReplyDeleteAgree about tying up lose ends before moving on. I know divorce is a PITA and expensive, but I can't see anyone taking this dude seriously until he does. And he's checking his wife's dating profile messages? Blech. PASS!
Clearly you missed the point...
ReplyDeleteLove your story Seachica - congratulations!
ReplyDeleteOn another note my husband and I were separated for 7 years before we got divorced... I was perfectly happy with that situation because I knew that I never wanted to get married again, so it seemed a moot point to me. It only changed for me when he started living with someone else. It felt weird so I talked to him about doing the paperwork and his response... Do we have to? 'X' is going to expect a proposal if we do that!
Anyone who gets involved with this person deserves everything she gets, which will be a whole pile of nothing. The arrogant "have my cake and eat it too" tone of this missive is just staggering. Why doesn't he just pay for escorts? Oh, I get it - he wants it for free. So he's a CHEAP manipulative selfish a-hole. Nice.
ReplyDeleteGood lord. This says "VERY MARRIED AND MY WIFE ISN'T AWARE THAT I'M DOING THIS" as loudly as if it was written in all caps. He's a liar and a cheat. He probably doesn't even live in Detroit.
ReplyDeleteSo, potential dates, if you're looking for a fling, go for it, but first insist on an STD test, background check, and credit scan. If he passes those, use protection always, and expect to be unexpectedly dumped one day either when his wife finds out about his "business trips", or when he meets someone else he likes better who lives closer to an airport hub for his frequent flier airline.
Your choice, but I feel life is too short to waste on someone who is this complicated.
MOT - member of the tribe. I wonder if he posted his ad on JDate, as this is a term used amongst, well MOTs.
ReplyDeleteAnd as someone said upthread, maybe he should be posting on Ashley Madison. Or better yet, just get a divorce and move on if you're not happy in your marriage.
OH @Seachica!!! what a wonderfully romantic story! my crusted over, untrusting, heart melted a little bit. i'm so happy for you :) think you got a good one there. congrats!
ReplyDeleteFirst thing I'd request is to MEET this wife in person and get her blessing. That said, I don't think I've ever heard of an ACTUAL open marriage. I am pretty sure they are something married men made up to tell girls at the bar.
ReplyDeleteSeachica--What a great story! Sounds like you have a keeper in Dan! Congratulations!
ReplyDeleteI've never done online dating. I have a hard time meeting new people, especially men. Well, men who I would actually date. I've been thinking about it but I would like your opinions on it. Was it just scumbag cheaters and perverts? Also, I feel embarrassed... Like I can't get a date in real life or something. I know you all don't know me or my circumstances, etc. but I figured Id ask.
ReplyDeleteBubble- I work alot and it's difficult to meet guys so ive tried online dating. I only met with one guy, he actually went to my high school but was in a different year. He was normal and nice but it the end it didn't work out. We just had lifestyle differences and ended it. We talked on the phone for a couple weeks before meeting. I dunno if I would have the same luck again so I haven't tried it since.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, my ex best friend uses online dating all the time. She has met atleast 10 guys and has gone on one date with them, slept with them and they never call her again. She didn't understand why. Some guys just want laid I suppose. Good luck either way, just be careful!
My husband and I met on yahoo personals 12 years ago and we were both married at the time. We were legally separated from our spouses and living apart. In PA even easy divorces take half a year and you can't expect someone to live in a cave during the wait. There is too much celebrating to do!
ReplyDeleteMy parents didn't get officially divorced for 15 years. Even then it was only because Dad's girlfriend at the time insisted on it. Neither had any intention of getting married again, so it fell to the back burner.
ReplyDeleteA guy I dated didn't get divorced for three years. The wife lived downstairs, and he lived upstairs, with a separate side entrance. They finally went through with the divorce when she got pregnant by her boyfriend.
On the issues of open marriages: my boss has a friend who is in one. They've been married for 30 some years, no kids and they just like having sex with other people. I think they are still intimate with each other and they have a separate apartment for their flings (rich people!) But it works for them. I've met the wife but Ive never asked for specifics, but my boss gives me the scoop.
ReplyDeleteI have met alot of freaks through online dating services. such as match, etc. I don't do it anymore. quit after the elderly handyman who liked to go skinny dipping (it said so in his profile) contacted me. I was almost 40 years younger than he and have two graduate degrees.
ReplyDeleteso, from my perspective, this david guy is intelligent and honest, so I don't get what the big deal is. he lays it all out on the table.
if people really think that david's email is horrible, I suggest that you haven't been on these online sites. a guy who would never in 8 million years walk over to you at a bar, thinks that he has a chance w/you because you have an online profile. doesn't matter that you wouldn't date him if he was the last man on earth and he should know that, somehow, he thinks he has a chance. like jim carrey in dumb and dumber when he asks the female character, 'do you think I have a chance?' and she says, 'um, one in a million?" and he says, 'so you're telling me that I have a chance.'
you get the picture. that level of delusion. I responded to the handyman and told him that he was too old for me, but that my grandmother was looking for a boyfriend, and he had the audacity to tell me that he didn't date anyone who wasn't at least 20 years younger than he because 'most women let their bodies go.' ya. gross.
so, trust me, this david guy is not bad at all. honest and educated and I think whatever woman sent out his email w/his name should be ashamed of herself. he's in a small community and this will get back to him.
The letter writer's strong admiration for sociology majors and derision of medical school students leads me to suspect this is a graduate-level research project.
ReplyDeleteWill more women answer an ad from a married doctor in tough, cold city than from a single plumber in a sunny warm tourist spot?
I await the results.
If he was truly separated in the process of divorcing, he wouldn't need to keep it a secret from his family and friends.
ReplyDeletenot a doctor, not a chance. wouldn't take a sociology major in med school. especially when you can't spell. do people actually buy this crap in the real world?
ReplyDeleteWhat he says isn't bad, it's just not believable. He takes great care to specify from the very start that any public meetings with prospective "fellow travellers" can't occur. He presents this elaborate justification why it must be kept secret. Clearly, he's not in an open relationship. And like many people mentioned, there are at least 6 basic spelling mistakes. Unlikely from a supposed doctor, who at least would probably use spell-check. This guy is a fake.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that's why doctors have terrible handwriting. To cover their errors!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt would be one thing if this guy were separated - he's not; he and his wife still live together, but just date other people. There's a big difference between being separated and having an open marriage. It seems like open marriages are for selfish cowards - people who don't have the balls to live on their own, but still expect to have their cake and eat it too.
ReplyDeleteAnd to annabella - do you have any idea how many Jewish men named David there are in the metro Detroit area? It's really not the small community that you say, particularly if he is not observant. It's not like his email address is posted here.
It took 3 YEARS for my ex to sign the papers, so our divorce could be finalised.
ReplyDeleteI mean, he'd moved his side-piece in within 2 weeks of me taking our kids and moving out, and they'd had a kid within a year of my leaving.
But he knew that once the divorce had been finalised he'd have to marry her, so he came up with all manner of excuses to NOT sign the paperwork (think along the lines of "my dog ate it"), until they had a wedding date (her parents paid for the whole shebang) less than three months out.
Seachica, that is a great story! Congrats and best wishes to you both.
ReplyDeleteYou do not need such a high gpa to get into med school. And you do not have to be smart to get in or even finish med school. Dedicated with a good memory, sure, but smart, not necessarily. Just because you have been school for forever, doesn't mean you can write well, either.
ReplyDeleteEh, I would never respond to this fella, but he doesn't offend me as much as the others.
Awesome! Keep mentioning your wife. It really shows character if you can't wait to get divorced before dating. What a pig.
ReplyDeletelots of lies in his letters, but only a dumb ho would respond anyway so she gets what she deserves.
ReplyDeleteRiiiiiiiiight. You have to give the guy points for creativity.
ReplyDeleteMy father and step-mother have been together 30 years and she is still married to her ex-husband. Also MOT. Meh.
ReplyDeleteI know doctors, the most honest of them admit the reason they write so horribly is that they can't spell. This guy though seems off for other reasons. The phrasing or something I dunno.
ReplyDeleteI'm addicted to this site now, BTW.
Thanks everyone for the Congratulations! We actually met on JDate, so our story is proof that online dating can work. I had some crazy dates before meeting Dan, and learned to look for the truth hidden in the messages (be very skeptical when a guy won't post his photo, and always google his name before meeting him in person!). Online dating is no different from meeting someone in a bar or group activity that way. I would recommend it to any of my friends who are serious about dating. Nowhere else can you meet so many men who want to date. You can largely weed out the ones who just want sex -- email alot before meeting in person, and (for women especially) be skeptical about any guy who tries for more than a kiss on the first date. Guys who just want a fling will not be patient with you - they will move onto the next woman quickly. And good riddance to those - let them be some other woman's problem.
ReplyDeleteOother advice is to watch for the form letter guys. Some will cast a wide net and send the same initial letter to dozens of women. If they don't reference something about your interests in the first letter, say bye bye. And if they only reference your physical looks, they also aren't attracted to you except physically.
Finally, after a date or two, suggest being fb friends with them. You will learn a ton about them from their social media comments!
I, fortunately or unfortunately, know a lot of doctors and lawyers- they admit to bad spelling and grammar, and I quote "That's why we have secretaries". I know it sounds horrible, but is the truth. So I don't preclude anyone from a certain profession because of personal knowledge.
ReplyDeleteAnyway-has to be something weird going on, I would agree with still married, wife has no clue.
I'm late to the party but I wanted to tell Seachica congrats! Super cute story!! All of us CDANers (we CDANers? I'm getting stage fright because the grammar police is out in full force today!!) are invited, right?? :-)
ReplyDeleteI'm late to the party as well. So, congrats SeaChica!! I'm much more of a lurker than a poster (this is 2 days in a row for me)but I feel as though I know a lot of you.
ReplyDeleteI'm Jewish, a family law attorney and persnickety about grammar so I thought I'd throw my opinions into the mix.
1. I was raised Conservative but never heard the term MOT until law school.
2. Many attorneys seem to lack spelling and grammar skills. That said, if someone is sending an email which is meant to impress the fact that they couldn't be bothered to proofread speaks volumes. It's tantamount to showing up to a date dirty and sweaty
3. As people have noted, there is a huge difference between people who are separated and those in an open marriage. I practice law in Los Angeles and Orange Counties and if there are ANY issues that are disputed in a divorce, the process can take quite some time. Because of budget cutbacks, there are fewer family court judges and fewer court clerks and cases often move at a glacial pace. I would thus differentiate between someone who is well into the process of getting divorced and those who have not even filed.
I gotta go with others who have talked about the divorce process. My BFF is still legally married and lives with his soon to be ex (He lives downstairs, she upstairs, they have a daughter together). Both have been dating since January, and they just alternate days so they also spend time with their daughter. Their house was almost foreclosed on, and other issues that have come up, and they haven't had the money to file. He has 2 girls he is seeing that he met online and both seem pretty nice (so far I like them). Unless you've been there, it's hard to judge. They also know about his situation and are ok with it. He is a MOT too LOL
ReplyDeleteI'd seriously would converse with this David guy (I live in Detroit area) just for curiousity sake. I also do online dating and while I've met guys that I don't click with, I really can't say I've had a bad experience...it's a lot better than meeting guys at bars, clubs etc.
And congrats Seachica on your engagement!
Open marriages exist. I'm more stunned by the insane insta-judgment. Actually no I'm not.
ReplyDeleteOpen marriages do exist, as do polyamourous relationships (I know quite a few people in the latter); however, I'm just not convinced this guy is one of them. And yes, plenty of lawyers/doctors/college professors can't spell; ironically their secretaries (who didn't go to school nearly as long/come from the right social circles, and therefore sometimes are looked down upon) are much, MUCH better at spelling, writing, etc.
ReplyDeleteBTW, is there a good term out there for those of us shiksas who apparently look Jewish enough that other Jews assume we're a MOT? I've had this happen on quite a few occasions, up to & including getting grief from an overly Orthodox fellow in the middle of Coolidge Corner on a Saturday afternoon (this being a fairly Jewish part of greater Boston) for being out & about on the Sabbath; he shut up pretty damn fast when I let him know I wasn't what he thought. It's not that I object to the assumption at all; it's simply that I'm very puzzled by it, esp. since AFAIK we have no Jewish ancestors. (My mother points out that supposedly the Celts are descended from one or more of the Ten Lost Tribes, so maybe that's it; she also swears that I've become Jewish through osmosis via any number of friends & roommates, but seeing as it hasn't changed me physically, I remain befuddled.)
ReplyDelete@ Robin the Mad Photographer
ReplyDeleteAnd what, pray tell, does a MOT woman supposedly look like?
Go to Israel - many of the Jewish women are light-haired, light-eyed.
Awww, Valerie and Dan, I cried when I read your story. Can't believe there are guys this romantic out there. My hubby borrowed the bottle of champagne I'd bought to toast his birthday and used it to propose to me..... This means there's hope for my best friend who's having a HORRIBLE time meeting people online. I've sent her a link to this site and these comments, to show her she's not alone. Now, if someone knows a guy looking for a smart, attractive, FIT -- didn't let the body go lol --, tall (5'10) blonde 53 (looks 45) year old.... I could make her day!
ReplyDeleteAs for David, good luck loser.
Congrats on the engagement!
ReplyDeleteI just wouldn't want to deal with this drama. I had a married guy chase me on an online site a few years ago, but he's wife didn't know they were in an "open marriage." I wonder if this guy's wife knows about it either.
@Robin - I'm not convinced he is, either, but there is still a chance and before assuming he's not, there are just better questions to ask. Bah, IDK. I just was in an open relationship for a couple years and was quickly exasperated by how many people assumed we both were just...lying to each other...even though we'd introduce the other to whomever we dated.
ReplyDeleteSide note: Ended in divorce, but because we were a bad fit - not due to the open relationship.
Anyhow, on the MOT side- i'm a blond hair blue eyed Jew dating an Italian. He's usually the one asked if he's Jewish by the neighborhood Hassidim and I always tell them they picked the wrong pony.
To Turkish Taffy and anyone else who thinks that being a doctor means that you can write well: Think again. I've been editing their work for years, and let me tell you, some of these people border on illiterate.
ReplyDeleteAnnabella - how dare another lesser man approach you?! You have 2 degrees!!!! You are too good to approach at a bar let alone a dating website, do they not know how special you are and how worthless they are?! My god he was older!!! My god you have a profile on a dating site and an ugly man dared to contact you and expect to be treated with some semblance of human kindness! Geez honey get over yourself. I'm a female and men who I am not attracted to approach me everyday but I don't act like a total twat to them. Just because they talk to you doesn't mean anything has to happen, but you can be a decent person and decline in a nice way.
ReplyDelete