Thursday, July 12, 2012
Your Turn
Daniel Tosh is taking a lot of heat for making a rape joke at a comedy club. When he asked the audience if a rape joke could be funny, one woman said no and Tosh said that he wished she would be gang raped right then. Now he has the club owner and other comedians coming to his defense, although he did somewhat apologize on his Twitter. Can rape jokes ever be funny? I think Seth Rogen and Anna Faris proved they can't.
Yeah. No. But then Daniel Tosh sucks.
ReplyDeleteHere's a hilarious rape joke: Daniel Tosh walks into a bar and gets gang raped in the ass
ReplyDeleteThe best joke my friend ever said was just that he was still on the hunt for a funny Jon Bonet Ramsey joke.
ReplyDeleteNo. They can't. Ever. And the part that bothers me most is that Daniel Tosh has never in his life had to worry about being raped, yet any woman who's ever left a bar alone at night has probably got that possibility on her mind.
ReplyDeleteGuys that tell rape jokes will say that women don't like rape jokes don't understand comedy.
ReplyDeletedid you see the view today? those stupid women were defending him saying things like well if it's in this type of context it's okay to say or something like that i was like are you freaking kidding me you're women!!! i'm so sick of comedians saying it's okay for other comdians to get away with crap like this b/c they're "comedians"
Delete*because they don't understand comedy
ReplyDeleteJebus, the comments section really needs an edit button.
No. They're never funny. Ever. Neither are jokes about child sexual abuse or the Holocaust.
ReplyDeleteI've already e-mailed the Comedy Channel to complain. If I find out who his advertisers are, I'll e-mail them as well. Anyone know? I watched maybe 15 minutes of his show one time and it seriously sucked.
I think a good comedian can make anything funny. They are always pushing the boundaries. Some of the best can push it without insulting. Tosh, though, cannot.
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of comedians tend to rely on them because it's easier than saying something clever or funny. Maybe it's because I was raped when I was 16 & also knew others, but no, I don't think these types of jokes are ever funny. It's a violence & violation that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
ReplyDeleteFor pete's sake, it's Tosh, that's what he does. If you don't like his brand of humor, don't frickin' go to the show.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. People need to lighten the f up and to a certain degree, mind their own business. If your a big baby who doesn't like to be offended ever, then sit in a dark corner and suck your thumb all day.
DeleteAnd I am a woman and I do know a couple people who have unfortunately been date raped.
There was a post on Reddit the other day where a guy told this story about why he's a male feminist: There was a classroom full of adults, male and female. The instructor drew a line down the center of the board, one half for women, the other half for men. He asked the class, "All of the men raise your hand to tell me what you do to avoid being raped." None of the men raised their hands. Then the instructor did the same for women, getting responses like, "I carry pepper spray", "I never set my drink down at a party", etc. The women's half of the board became filled with words, while the men's half remained empty. Pretty profound.
ReplyDeleteI think if you go to a Tosh show, you should know that you'll probably be offended before you leave. I mean, his shows are one offensive joke after another.
ReplyDeleteNot funny
ReplyDeleteSorry to bug people with a request that others have made: Can anyone provide a like to this Adblocker that works on Internet Explorer 8? I tried googling one, but when I clicked on it I got a warning from Symantac saying I shouldn't go to that site. I have Norton 360, and this just confuses me. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sad that we live in a culture where we place so much emphasis on teaching our girls how to not get raped.
ReplyDeleteOh, and rape jokes? They're never okay.
Feeling so stabby! Must put down knife. NO, it can't be funny! Tosh is an idiot.
ReplyDeleteCDAN ladies made some really great points. As I mentioned in the Kennedy post, I wonder what our world would be like if the ladies were in charge and the men just pulled the heavy stuff and opened jars and got stuff off the high self. I would like to try that out for awhile.
@Carrie - sorry for your pain. Big hug from me :)
He used to be hilarious. He just tries way too hard to cross the line now and he's NOT funny anymore.
ReplyDeleteTreesap, it'll always be that way.
ReplyDeleteExactly my point, Treesap Lady! Why aren't we teaching the boys to be kind, gentle NON-rapists!
ReplyDeleteI think I go better have some coffee, before my inner Hulk gets all crazy.
@SusanB - try this: lifehacker.com/5213300/internet-explorer-8s-inprivate-feature-is-a-competent-ad-blocker
ReplyDeleteI read the original blog post that started this whole thing. It reminded me of a tennis match that I went to once a few years ago. I was astonished to find a fan report of that same match that included behavior from one of the players that never happened.
ReplyDeleteThe owner of the club has disputed some of the facts in that blog post. He says the women stayed for the whole show, and that they did accept the two comp tickets to come back for another show. He also says that Tosh did not say 'how about you get raped by 5 guys right now'.
I am taking this whole thing with a huge grain of salt. As for Tosh, he is a low brow comedian who regularly pushes the envelope on his show. He is moderately funny, but this is his schtick, trying to see just how far he can go. As a woman, I feel I have far more important battles to fight, especially given this Congress and forced transvaginal ultrasounds and stuff like that happening around the country.
Then again, I'm very upset about the voter suppression efforts coming in November, but the population that affects the most would rather use their energy to argue about adidas shoes.
Carrie, so very sorry for what happened to you.
ReplyDeleteAnd what's that quote... "we live in a society where we teach women 'don't get raped' instead of teaching men 'hey, don't rape'."
I am a rape survivor. So are many of my friends. AMONG OURSELVES, WE make jokes about the assaults WE have survived as a way to own and process our experiences. In that context--survivors using humor to manage and process our trauma--I find what we have to say hysterically funny. I don't think non-survivors should make rape jokes, and I think making rape jokes in a COMMERCIAL context (like a comedy club) rather than in a COMMUNITY context (survivors getting together to support each other) is horrendous.
ReplyDeleteTosh's whole schtick is pushing the limits of decency...I find him cringeworthy and just put him and his show on ignore.
ReplyDeleteWould it be funny if someone raped your mom Enty? Sister (if you have one)? Daughter?
ReplyDeleteWhat a fucking stupid question to ask
No, it cannot
ReplyDelete@ABlake - Enty was trying to make a point, not genuinely asking us if they'll ever be funny. It was a line to start the discussion. Settle down, readers of the site know how Enty feels about things like this. He is NOT open to sexism, racism, or prejudices of any sort.
ReplyDeleteI think that, in the right context and with the right comedian, there's humor to be mined from almost anything. I'm not saying that rape jokes specifically are funny, but I'm sure we've all laughed way too hard at something that was offensive or taboo. I don't think what Tosh said was funny at all, and it really isn't something to joke about in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI find them in poor taste...but part of comedy is pushing the boundaries. I think it's easy to cross the line when the line is so very muddled between what is acceptable and what is not. Comdedy shows are an enter at your own risk sort of entertainment. Be prepared to be offended.
ReplyDeleteThere is a bit in The Office UK, and the punch lime is 'I think there has been a rape up there'.
ReplyDeleteThe whole training scene is hilarious and is in probably the best episode of S1. I follow Ricky Gervais's line of thinking, where you can make fun of pretty much anything, depending on how it's told.
@Carrie: I'm sorry.
ReplyDeleteNo, they can never be funny IMO. Too many women (and men) suffer tremendously from the trauma.
There can be satirical commentary surrounding a sensitive subject, but there should never be humor regarding the act itself.
ReplyDeleteCan't think of any example that would work, but you can NEVER make a joke about someone actually being subjected to a rape.
The Office bit:
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/NYgrHQVBWb0?t=7m36s
When the "joke" states a woman should be gang raped, it doesn't become funny anymore. If he can't think of a topic other than rape to move on from, maybe he is not that great of a comedian?!
ReplyDeleteHe would be a big hit at Peen State right about now.
ReplyDeleteHe regularly makes rape jokes on his show that are cringeworthy. So not funny. I'm surprised he hasn't been called out for that.
FS, LF owner is a liar and a nut. Wouldn't believe a word he says. Based on personal experience.
ReplyDelete@Maggie, The terrible thing about your joke is that it really is kind of funny, in a horrible way. It almost proves his theory that rape jokes are always funny.
ReplyDeleteOn a more serious note, they're wrong and they 'normalize' or minimize sexual violence and violence against women in general. I always recall Sarah Silverman's horrible rape joke and how divided people were over it.
For those who've forgotten, it was her realizing that she had been raped by a doctor and saying, "For a Jewish girl, that's a bittersweet experience."
I m shocked to see a few comments here perpetuate the idea that men are not victims of rape. They have been and will continue to be so despite the fact that not only are they vastly under reported but until recently were not even properly categorized unwanted sexual attacks. And we wonder how things like Penn State happen. Damn, the day the report is released on officials at Penn State there are I believe three different comments stating or suggesting that rape des not include male victims or not something men need worry about. Sad.
ReplyDeleteRape jokes are not funny. It is absolutely disgusting to me that this even needs to be explained. Beyond the obvious callousness of not knowing whether there are rape survivors in the audience (and statistics tell us there will about 1/3 of the female audience who have been sexually assaulted), this kind of joking desensitizes people to the horrible consequences and the vicious nature of the crime. Those of us who have had to survive it - I can't tell you how awful it is to see someone joking about an experience that was life changing in a very negative way. We may get better, but we rarely get over it. I still have nightmares and it happened over 30 years ago. How I view the world fundamentally changed in the aftermath of that.
ReplyDeleteBy making this kind of joke, it tells me that Tosh thinks that rape is no big deal, and is probably OK with his friends doing it. He's probably a mysgonist who thinks that women are nothing more than a penis receptacle anyway and how dare she ruin his punchline.
Someone with exposure like this who thinks it's ok gives permission to others to think it's ok and we all know what a mob thinking society we are.
This isn't isolated to just him. The younger generation is completely desensitized to this kind of voilence. Just play a video game and watch what people say to each other. We all need to stand up and say this kind of joking is NOT OK and put our money behind it. Do not see these comedians, do not watch the channels that carry him, do not patronize their advertisers and above all say what you think out loud and to as many people as you can.
Here's a link to pretty much what I think about this http://rapeculturerealities.tumblr.com/post/27022251523/why-rape-jokes-arent-funny
haven't signed into blogger in many years, but this is an important subject.
@em que em - thank you. I had to download Firefox first and after I did, Adblocker said I had to download Firefox, that it wasn't on my computer. So God only knows what's on my computer now. Well, it was worth a try - thanks!
ReplyDeleteAgain, I think any subject can be made funny, if done well AND from the right perspective. I think of Louie CK making fun of a jailed pedophile getting raped.
ReplyDeleteWoman and rape is not funny. It wasn't funny when Sophia Vergara laughed that the only way she could have such an old son was due to rape. Yep, she facetiously said that on The View.
Rarely, depends on the context. Louis CK has a joke where rape is mentioned but it's not really a joke about rape. Then there's the fact that Daniel Tosh is simply not funny in the way that Dane Cook isn't funny who just happened to be there too.
ReplyDeleteWhile I am on a ranty pissy streak ... How many of you have ever laughed or giggled at a "drop the soap" joke? Those have been around forever and show up on family tv series for god sake. So I imagine the true answer to the question is that yes they can be funny if they are aimed at a group we don't concern ourselves with.
ReplyDeleteThe only bit I've ever found funny that touched on rape was Ever Mainard's Here's Your Rape bit. But she was commenting more on rape culture and male privilage, so there you have it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ArdxWYBGQ
But Tosh is unfunny. End of story. I find the comedian's sticking up for him to be a bit odd. If they'd simply said "He has the right to say what he wants, but you have the right to be offended. That's what makes the US great." Instead so many comedians were aghast that anyone would apologize.
It really depends on the joke. I think one could be constructed that illuminated the issue, but Tosh doesn't do that. His intent is to say something he's "not supposed to say" because to juvenile minds (his and his fans') that will provoke laughter. They think this is being "edgy", but they're just being plain old tiresome jerks.
ReplyDeleteLouis C.K. was on one of the late shows a few weeks back and I don't even remember what the original topic was but at some point he vaguely referred to "the coach" and "how did he even find time to coach with all the molesting he was doing?" or something like that. It was obviously about Sandusky. The point is, the person being made fun of was Sandusky, not the victims. As someone who was disgusted by that whole mess and whose heart broke for the victims, I thought he found an acceptable way to bring humor into dealing with that.
ReplyDeleteSo, is it possible for a rape joke to be funny? Maybe? But if the victim is the punchline, I'm not laughing. Saying someone should be raped? What's clever, witty or insightful about that? Just sounds like some stupid frat boy.
@ClearlyDisturbed:I normally don't laugh at this jokes and I honestly think it is disgusting when somebody wishes this on somebody. Eg when someone goes to jail there are ALWAYS poster who will post "they hope he will be raped in jail". Not even as a joke. I think this is as sick as rape jokes concerning women!
ReplyDeleteI'm also on the train that I think that a lot of jokes put people down and make it easier for prejudices to grow. The nazis did it with jew-cartoons. The KKK did it with "n**** jokes/cartoons" the right do it with gay jokes... I could go on.
All in all I hate that women are still not equal to men and that a lot men cannot/want not understand what it means to have somethings sharp in the hand when you go home in the evening....
Iknowpeople, thanks for your comment, the flip side of the coin. There was also a comedian on the local ABC station yesterday who said he did not hear it the way the blogger wrote it either. It's a shame this whole incident wasn't taped.
ReplyDeleteIt's seems we all mostly agree on one thing, Daniel Tosh isn't very funny.
Tosh is an idiot. His show is incredibly terrible. Yuck.
ReplyDeleteIt's comedy people.
ReplyDeleteEither EVERYTHING can be made fun of or NOTHING can be made fun of. You can't pick and choose what's on the table.
Granted, I wouldn't crack a joke about rape to someone I knew for a fact was raped, or rather, I wouldn't knowingly pick on that person to his or her face (and I know some rape victims, male and female). But when joking about things in general, all bets are off.
Hell, I had a dear friend commit suicide two years ago (I was the last person he ever spoke to and was the one who he told where his body could be found), but the rest of STILL rip on him for it (and other things) to this day. It doesn't make the pain any better or worse, but anytime you can get a laugh, go for it.
Joking about bad things doesn't make them good, but it doesn't make them worse.
Also: the woman Tosh ripped was a HECKLER. She got what she deserved.
You claim to not joke about rape with people you know have been raped, but NO ONE ever knows if someone has been raped. Some people may choose not to talk about. Don't assume!
Delete"My 1st sexual experience was from the result of Rape...I'm glad the poor guy didn't file charges." -Joan Rivers
ReplyDeletejust because joan rivers, a female comic said it doesn't make it okay. i was raped when i was 9 years old think about that my virginity was stolen from me when i was just 9 years old by a rapist now is that funny? i don't care if a comic said it no one should ever joke about rape. and if you think it's okay then you're as sick as all the rapists out there in this world. i pray that you never have a man forcefully hold you down and shove his penis in you
DeleteNever ever ever is it okay.
ReplyDeleteCuckoo Armadillo, your example is the ONLY time when jokes are acceptable.
ReplyDeleteComedy is subjective. Some people find rape jokes funny, though I do not. However, as someone above pointed out, why is it acceptable for jokes to be made about rape in prison? It's so common place in our culture--on tv, in movies, radio, even here in the CDAN comments. Because victims in those circumstances are incarcerated? Where do we as a society draw the line? When the victim (in a joke) is a woman or child we're repulsed yet a joke about a man being raped in prison is seen as funny or even justified. I think it's sick that we as a culture have made prison rape--not just jokes about it--something to be expected if one is incarcerated. I'm interested in what you guys think. This has baffled me for a while now.
ReplyDeletePrison rape jokes aren't funny either. They're a result of insecure, straight men who can't comprehend (1) willingly raping a man and (2) being a victim.
DeleteThere's a difference between people who've dealt with a particular situation (be it sexual assault, racism, etc.) using black humor as a coping mechanism or a way to get a point across (because sometimes if you can't laugh somehow, you'll lose your mind), and someone from a more privileged group (the non-victimized) thinking they can use the situation as a jumping-off point for their own jokes, if not outright using it as a weapon to throw at someone outside their in-group--one I have no problem with, the other I think is a really bad idea 99.99% of the time. He has the right to say whatever he wants to, and I have the right to find him highly offensive and not want to do business with companies who sponsor him. (The .01% bit would apply to something like the Sarah Silverman joke above, or Amy Sedaris' short play inspired by the high school football players who gang-raped a developmentally disabled girl about 20 years ago, in which several similarly disabled girls assault a high school football player. "Ha ha...oh, shit!" *cringe* *shudder* The small amount of humor, which generally plays off certain tropes, is a wedge that makes just enough space for the real message to come across and bitchslap you but good.)
ReplyDeleteI'm not surprised that so many of his fellow comedians have come to his defense; what's disappointing is that so many are basing it on the whole "you're too PC, anything can be funny, you just don't get it, etc." BS line--if they said something to the effect of "I may not agree with him, but strictly speaking he does have the right to say whatever he wants," I would understand; the actual reactions, though, strike me more as "circling the wagons."
Daniel Tosh is a loser. His show is in the lowest commen denominator category. He makes fun of other people that do stupid things, or rides the coat tails of other people who actually do something funny. In this latest incident, he did not actually make a joke (that is a talent he does not possess), but rather he suggested that it would be funny if a woman who heckled him was gang raped by five men right then and there. He threw a tantrum because he has no comedy talent whatsover (or, apparently skin of any thickness)and his outburst was tantamount to a bully who yells a racial or sexist or homophobic slur when someone finally calls him out.
ReplyDeleteThis was Doug Stanhope's response on twitter:
ReplyDelete"@danieltosh If you ever apologize to a heckler again I will rape you."
Two more things:
ReplyDelete(1) Prison rape as a subject should not be used just for the sake of a cheap punch line, and we shouldn't be advocating it or cheering when it happens. (Having said that, if it turns out than Sandusky is assaulted in prison, I would have a hard time feeling sorry for him--karma & all that--but I'm not going to jump up & down in glee, either.)
(2) If he can't come up w/a better comeback than that to use on a "heckler" (I don't see her as one, but whatever...), then he's a piss-poor comedian who has no business being onstage in public. Part of doing stand-up is knowing how to put hecklers in their place, and if you can't do it well, then you've got a big problem...
^^This
DeleteAnd Tosh is NOT FUNNY....rape is NOT FUNNY.
answer to post question: No. Never.
ReplyDeleteThis is what Tosh does..says insanely controversial things and gets a major ratings boost. The fact that he responded to a heckler that way just proves what a lousy comedian he is. I miss George Carlin, Bill Hicks and Andy Kaufman!
ReplyDeleteso you have a problem with Tosh, but no problem with George Carlin having jokes about people having "faggy names?" I don't find Tosh funny anymore, but you're point is a little hypocritical.
DeleteI saw Doug Stanhope about 5 years ago or so, and one routine he did involved his dealing w/the kind of pro-life groups who cart around huge blown-up pictures of mangled fetuses and stuff smaller versions under other people's windshield wipers, which ended up w/him calling one of these men at home and accusing him of necrophiliac pedophilia due to his obvious obsession with naked dead baby pictures. (Yes, really. I couldn't make this up.) Yes, it was disgusting & over-the-top, but there was a point to the whole story, and it was obvious a lot of thought went into working up that routine, so my take on it is that he was a lot more successful at being "edgy" than Tosh. (I don't think it's humanly possible to be any more black-humored than that particular routine, although Gilbert Gottfried's post-9/11 crack at the celebrity roast right after the events, as documented in The Aristocrats, comes pretty damn close.) Having seen Doug's whole routine, and having seen him with his GF (I don't know if they're still together, sorry) and hearing how supportive he was of her (she was a complete sweetheart who, alas, ended up being periodically institutionalized due to mental health issues--and yes, she cracked jokes about that online), my guess is that his tweet wasn't intended as support--rather, he's calling him out in a very roundabout way.
ReplyDeleteJMHO...
I saw Jim Jeffries a few times. I am a big fan of live stand up, and thought he was just hilarious. Completely foul but really, really funny. He made a few jokes, the subjects of which I will not mention here (NOT rape jokes), that really made me laugh but also made me very self conscious about laughing. When something makes you think "Should I be laughing at this?" but is also so funny that you can't help but laugh, it's a bit confusing.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, Daniel Tosh was NOT making a rape joke. He was being violent, misogynistic, and making a woman feel unsafe. That's NOT funny.
ReplyDeleteDoug Stanhope is also a misogynistic piece of shit.
Jessica Valenti broke it down today in an article, which I highly encourage everyone to read:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/168856/anatomy-successful-rape-joke
@Robin the Mad Photographer- I completely agree.
ReplyDeleteI also thought that Sarah Silverman's joke was funny (maybe because I'm a Jewish girl) and Stanhope's response IS calling Tosh out, not supporting him.
I think he crossed the line with his comments to the heckler. I'm not sure his original joke or the context but it's absolutely not appropriate to tell someone you hope they get gang raped.
ReplyDelete"Can rape jokes ever be funny?"
ReplyDeleteWrong question.
Right question: Is this funny?
(Answer IMAO: NO. This "comedian" has not one original thought in his head, much less anything funny or interesting to say. When caught off guard he defaults to pitiful, tired bullying rebukes and then hides behind the claim that he was being "edgy." Please! Just call it what it is: Not Funny. And don't watch.)
All sorts of wrong stuff and radioactive topics can be funny, potentially. The urge to draw a line in the sand on certain topics is understandable but goes against free speech principles and could rule out genuinely effective examination, discussion, and perception of these topics. So let's not.
On board with so not funny.
ReplyDeleteThere's being controversial and there's being a damn idiot. Tosh is a damn idiot. He's a frat boy who somehow was able to make money off of mediocre humor. I hope in the wake of his asinine rape "joke," he will fade away.
ReplyDeleteNever in a million years.
ReplyDeleteRape jokes are never funny,is that the consensus?
ReplyDeleteThen white people saying the N-word shouldn't be allowed either,so what if they are singing along to a song..or tweeting. I'm talking to the Paltrows of the world and anyone else who thinks they have a "hood" pass.
Standing up and declaring "RAPE JOKES ARE NOT FUNNY" does not make her a heckler, are you shitting me??
ReplyDeleteIt makes her a WOMAN with BALLS and a decent moral compass. Bravo.
And to those saying he didn't say it, then why did he apologize? Stop defending this shitwad, he is LESS funny than Dane Cook, and that in itself is a fucking crime.
Totally on board w/you, especially the last sentence.
DeleteAnything can be funny and it's the way some of us cope. There could be the most hilarious N word joke but I'd never say it for fear that there's just one person who wouldn't get it. With really controversial jokes you have to make sure your audience knows exactly who you are so that nobody takes offense by mistake. Sometimes I say the craziest things to my family that are so effed up and wrong but we all laugh bc they know it's so opposite of how I feel.
ReplyDeleteAnything can be comedy. Comedy is one of the ways to deal with the horror of the world. That said, Tosh isn't funny. Or capable of making a joke funny enough to meet that standard. And he is clearly terrible with hecklers if that is all he could come up with.
ReplyDeleteI think pretty much anything is on the table with comedy. If you don't like what a comedian jokes about then don't follow them on twitter and don't go to their comedy shows.
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that if you take one type of joke off the table because it's offensive, you take everything off that is near the edge in comedy. Because pretty much everything near the edge is offensive to somebody.
Oh, and #FF @elibraden. He's hilarious!
i think its the joke that's funny. i can laugh at most things. go on to sicipedia.com and there is a lot worse than that on it. its the punchline that makes it.
ReplyDeletestatistically 9 out of 10 people enjoy gang rape...
c'mon? that's funny. it's not condoning rape, its not saying go out and rape someone. i think there's a joke for everything. some people just dont find it funny, others do.
Its a little sanctimonious to wave off the topic of this blog by referring to high brow interests or 'real' problems in society. If you are pressed for time you might want to re-route your efforts to the WSJ.
ReplyDeleteThis IS a problem. It's not funny. We are slowly getting inured to the hypersexualization of children in ads, rape jokes and the re-birth of profound chauvinism and misogyny in our culture. Check out the rape/nondisclosure/nonprosecuted rape rates in Alaska.
Yawn, addidas shoes. This is becoming a more serious issue, perhaps when the situation caves it will merit attention. Anyone checking out what's going on with rape culture? anime, rapelay, goal setting...I do not want to live in a place like that.
in Japan, rape culture...
ReplyDeleteLast week's episode of Louie featured Louis CK's character in a role reversal date rape.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I found it funny.
Oh, and Daniel Tosh proved he is nothing more than a talentless prick.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it funny how people like that dipshit Tosh can think it's perfectly fine and even funny to say, "Wouldn't it be funny if five guys raped that woman right now?"--but it's suddenly a Free Speech (TM) issue when someone calls him out for his misogyny and general douchebaggery.
ReplyDeleteIf you want some GREAT commentary on why l'affaire Tosh and typical rape jokes are Not Okay, check out this week's posts on the subject at www.shakesville.com.
It's okay if you want to be a douchebag. Just don't expect to get a free pass on it. Survivors and those who love them--not keeping quiet anymore.
I agree with the late great Bill Hicks; there are no lines in comedy. The best comedy can come from the darkest places and help us survive our darkest times. I don't believe in telling a comedian a subject isn't funny no matter what. Everything is on the table, and if they don't have the skills to handle a topic like rape then you don't laugh and/or don't support them in the future. And, yes, I have unfortunately been affected by it personally. But for me that makes being able to joke about it all the more important. If I hear a well played rape joke, I am grateful for it. Makes the burden just a little bit lighter.
ReplyDeleteFor anyone saying its ok to make fun, cause its "comedy" I'm assuming you've never felt the paralyzingly fear of being victimized, the terror of feeling helpless while an unthinkable horror happens to you.
ReplyDeleteI was never "raped", but I was targeted by a pedophile who was in the process of grooming me while young. I was lucky enough that I told before he actually laid hands on me, but even thinking of what he did do makes it hard to breathe to this day.
I have, as most women likely have had, several close calls during my bar years, as well.
Also, how the hell does a white person singing a song with the N word in it even come close to joking about gang rape?!?!
CanadianMiss, I don't think you read my post very closely. I admitted to being a victim myself. I don't like to get confrontational in blog comment sections, but saying my opinion isn't valid because I've never been afraid is upsetting to me. I know well the paralyzing fear - and that's exactly why I said what I said.
ReplyDelete@nope
DeleteI actually posted before I even saw your comment, so I wasn't calling you out. And I agree comedy can definitely be a form of therapy. But I'll explain the way I see it as best I can. I'll use 9/11 as a parallel. That is an event that didn't affect me personally. I don't know anyone who lost their lives. The closest I came to being part of the events was watching or reading the news. I have enough empathy to not make light, although I'm sure some people could. So if I was to make jokes about the people who lost their lives, but say a huge population needs to get over what I say because it's comedy, I don't think that would go over well.
I'm also not saying your opinion isn't valid. As the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
Also, I hate typing on my phone, so my posts can be a little more abrupt sounding than they are meant to be.
It's my choice what I laugh at. I'd rather joke about horrible things that have happened to me rather than keep crying. It makes me better than what happened bc I'm owning it and moving on after a healthy amount of reflection. I find that joking helps people recover faster. Not a shitty written joke, but a well written joke by a professional. Or something hilarious that I blurt out without even thinking if it's offensive bc I just know it's funny as hell. If you want to keep crying, fine but some of us want to live LIFE
ReplyDeletewell, i can't imagine that it could ever be funny. but i guess it would be up to the individual(?) i would probably have left this particular show. there are so many things to talk about and joke about, seems like picking another topic is a good idea.
ReplyDeletei remember, years ago, elizabeth shu was talking about tom cruise. he wouldn't kiss her the way she thought the scene called for. she said, "i told him that if he didn't get it right i was going to take him out in the hallway and rape him" (as a way to get him to relax). i was shocked that it ran on tv, but no one blinked. the person doing the interview acted as if her comment was delightful. so maybe it's less offensive coming from a woman? if it seems unlikely?
Thats great for you to have dealt with your personal tragedy in a way that does not make you bristle/fear. However, there is just no excuse for making a Horrifying personal tragedy into a joke! I saw Tosh when he came here; there were no rape jokes. Just because you like a comedian doesnt mean you expect him to pander to half of his audience about a threatening thing. You cant speak for all rape victims: imagine that woman getting up the nerve to home truth him and he suggests a repulsive solution for her, thats a PTSD trigger for any victim.
ReplyDeleteRape is usually always a topic of rife humor in regards to a woman. Even in movies, there's a following for that, did you know that? Webpages lost the best rape scenes in movies, there's quite a following. But both sides of society are more horrified when the thought of a man being raped comes up. Even my female friends say so.
I hate that comedians make money off of making a joke they are so removed from that relies on the experience of women and men's cavalier's attitudes to get a laugh at. Im repulsed that any woman would laugh at someone else's experience and I do not understand laughing at it even if you are also a victim. It seems like a betrayal of yourself, participatory shaming, threatening, reliving, dismissing, etc. Im sick of rape scenes in movies. The graphic violence is not necessary. Who do you think it's for, anyway?
No, rape jokes cannot ever be funny.
ReplyDeleteAs for this tosh.....he clearly has an agenda. Just suffer through a few mins of his show.
I abhor him.
No. It's the third rail of comedy. No. No. No.
ReplyDeleteNo, unless you are a rape survivor and are using humor to heal. I feel the same about fat jokes, I'm fat, so it's OK for me to say it, but if you are skinny and say it then it is wrong.
ReplyDeleteI also agree about misogyny. I work in a business dominated by men. I went out and stood at the top of the stairs and said the following this morning: "Am I a f**king island, I will not answer the phone all day while everyone else is sitting around doing f**king nothing". Not proud of myself, know I am getting ripped off today, but, the phones are being answered, people got off their butt and started working. If I had approached the situation in a kindler, gentler manner, which I normally do, then I would have been ripped off and they wouldn't have done their share. Males need to learn to not rape and that women are equal, but also to pull their weight. Mums and dads, it starts with you.
I wonder how funny he thinks Bobbitt jokes are. A big dull knife whacking off the penis and tossed into a field. that's fucking hilarious.
ReplyDeleteNOT
Violence is violence.
And making light of it makes it socially acceptable, which is not right.
Also, how the hell does a white person singing a song with the N word in it even come close to joking about gang rape?!?!
ReplyDelete4:06 PM
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We're talking about sensitivity when it comes words so how the hell do you protect one group and not the other?!?!
If you look at the Michael Richards incident,he made a joke about the black hecklers in his audience being hung from a tree,the freakin' audience laughed out loud.No one started booing Richards and walking out until he repeatedly used the word "Nigger" over and over again.
Tracey Morgan caught hell for JOKING about killing his son if the boy turned out to be gay.
Bottomline:Don't hold everyone else accountable for their words and action but let your own specific demo reign do as they please.
He has every right to tell that joke.
ReplyDeleteEvery right.
I have every right to say his joke sucks.
Because he really sucks.
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ReplyDeleteI love you @Squid
ReplyDeleteWow people need to go it over this. You're thinking about emailing comedy central. You've got to be kidding. Boo hoo he said something that hurt your feelings. Have you seen his show before? Hell this is G rated for him. Unfortunately, most of the world does not perfectly line up with your little fantasy world of what's right and wrong so you need to get over it. You probably voted for Obama. I don't agree with that and it offends me, so I'm going to call your office and have you fired.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I find it funny that everyone upset about the rape joke is now joking that Daniel should be raped. I don't understand people anymore.
Feraltart and Terri, you two are the worst.
ReplyDeleteFuck that noise. And fuck the rape apologists. No pun intended.
ReplyDeleteBoboFett3, the worst in what way?
ReplyDelete“Rape...it’s a great way of cheating if the guy is hot.”-(Lisa Lampinelli)
ReplyDelete"...There's a new bar in Pittsburgh that has something on their menu called The Rothisburger. It has green meat, raw eggs, old mayo & it sends you to the bathroom & does unspeakable things to you." Lmao
ReplyDeleteFeraltart: You can make fat jokes because you're a disgusting fat ass but its rude if skinny people do? That is the most ridiculously stupid faux sense of entitlement I have ever heard. If you don't like getting made fun of for being fat hit a treadmill. God forbid your precious feelings are hurt.
ReplyDeleteAlso, way to pout and not do your job because you don't like how everyone else is working. I would have fired you on the spot if I were your boss. Which of course means you probably made the story up. Also, that is not misogyny and has nothing to do with rape.
If you take comedy, and then remove all the subjects that could offend someone, you're left with very little. I often laugh at inappropriate jokes because they're inappropriate - knowing that I shouldn't be laughing at something serious or painful is part of what makes it funny. But delivery is everything, and I might not laugh at a rape joke, or racists joke, if it comes out of the mouth of someone who doesn't understand that they are dealing with a controversial issue.
ReplyDeleteI wish people would take responsibility for what comes out of their mouths. What pisses me off is how this has turned into some "Freedom of speech" issue for Tosh. Dude, you knew. There is no fucking way you did not know that joking about rape might offend somebody, and you did offend somebody. You offended a lot of people. Be a decent person and apologize. Whether or not you had the right to say what you said is not the point here.
BoboFett3, the tone of your comments is offensive. One can comment without being derogatory towards others. I do get on a treadmill, I go to the gym at least three times a week, do line dancing for 2 1/2 hours once a week, and see my personal trainer twice a month. This is one of the many reasons why I don't lie fat jokes, the assumptions that are made about whether people work out or not for one. I have also walked the Inca Trail, so fat I am, but fit as well.
ReplyDeleteDeciding that you won't do your job because the lone female in the place is doing it is misogyny. I did not make it up, the boss was away and when he comes back I will tell him what I did. I think to not do your job, that you are getting paid to do, just because the boss isn't there is a reflection of your internal character. As for further misogynistic attitudes, one of the men I work with has raised his voice at me twice, without provocation. I didn't raise my voice back to him, wrote two incident reports, and nothing has been done. He has subsequently had a female customer ring in and complain about him yelling at her in her own home. Further, the previous woman who held my position also complained about the same man. This man doesn't yell at the male customers.
And just in case you're wondering, which I suspect you could be from the tone of your posts, I have been with my wonderful husband for over 13 years. I would finish that calling someone names based on the size of their skin is no different than calling someone names on the basis of the colour of their skin, and is a reflection of your character. I am curious as to why you are so angry.
This comment thread has turned hilarious!!!
ReplyDeleteFeral: first off, I said nothing of your husband. And I you were the one who said you were fat in the first place. I said it was stupid that you think it's perfectly fine for you to make fat jokes, but not skinny people. What if, god forbid, one of your fat jokes hurt someone else's feelings? But I guess in that particular case it's oky to be offensive because you are a card carrying member of the chub club.
ReplyDeleteAs for your work situation, you strike me as someone who is so wrapped up in themselves that you can't see past your own faults. Just because a man raised his voice at you, it's not because you're a woman, it's probably because you were screwing up. And again, your example is still not misogyny. If everything you say is true, which I doubt it is, it is pig headed at best. Let's not be hyperbolic and completely bastardize the real meanings of such a strong word.
Finally, making for fun of someone for their weight isn't even in the same zip code as making fun of someone for their race. The fact that you even said that just bottles my mind.
BoboFett3, everything I wrote is true. You still haven't answered the question of why you are so angry.
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