At this point, I am not sure what Stephen Beatty is identifying himself as other than as a man which he has identified as since he was 14. The rest? I will leave it up to him. In case you don't want to watch the six minute video, I will say that he talks about the people who have supported him and mom and dad didn't make the cut.
Who?
ReplyDeleteI don't understand Enty's first sentence. Stephen states very clearly at the beginning of the video that he identifies as a queer transman.
ReplyDeleteI wanna be friends with this kid, I love how he is just so brimming with ideas and enthusiasm that he can barely speak fast enough to get them out!
ReplyDeleteStephen used to be Kathlyn, right? Do I have the right kid?
ReplyDeleteHe talks so fast I can barely understand him.
ReplyDeleteI love this kid. It takes balls to do what he's doing under the glare of his parent's fame. You go Steven!
ReplyDeleteHe has characteristics from both his parents.
ReplyDeleteBut why did he choose Ira as a middle name? Very old fashioned.
What's up with that paneling??? The gene pool may be talented and famous but this kid isn't worth my 6 minutes. Let him grow up and be a kid while he can. Maybe he knows something and maybe he'll change. Who knows. I just don't think this level of scrutiny helps anything at his age.
ReplyDeleteWho knew your six minutes were so valuable. I must be grateful that you might give one or two of them in reading and possibly responding. He's a transgender kid, support him or stay silent.
DeleteCassidy - I save my bandwidth for puppy videos, or kitty's. Sometimes bunnies.
DeleteHe's 20, not a child
ReplyDeleteNova - I thought he was 14. Carry on.
DeleteLove him, love him, love him. I wasn't that articulate at 30--never mind 20!
ReplyDeleteRight, EmEyeKay. I also don't get what's confusing Enty. The kid's turbo-talker, but so are a lot of other hyper self-conscious undergraduates. If you look at the YouTube video, he's riffing on 7 pre-set questions for some kind of project.
ReplyDeleteSo yeah, he identifies as a man who enjoys expressing his feminine side. He seems committed to analyzing and challenging commonly accepted norms regarding gender identity and presentation. He's coming at it through personal experience and using an academic vocabulary.
Fine by me. It's easier for people with his kind of privilege to put themselves out there and push society to be more accepting and inclusive. He's aware of that privilege. He's also obviously gone through some rough times before arriving at self-acceptance, and he wants to make the road easier for other kids in his position. Nothing wrong with that, imo.
I'm surprised Zooey Deschanel isn't one of his idols as he's trying way way too hard to come off as quirky cute.
ReplyDeleteHe's adorable and his enthusiasm is infectious.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but I would be heartbroken if that was my daughter. I don't know any mother who would hope her precious girl grows up to be a trans man. Very sad.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between hoping for it, and being accepting, loving, and supportive.
ReplyDeleteWhat is sad is your ignorance Jen
ReplyDeleteThis is kind of OT, but does anyone remember the blind from a couple months ago about the athlete who liked to cross-dress and his wife knows about it?
ReplyDeleteI was just reading up on Stephen Beatty, and came across this blog talking about Bruce Jenner liking to cross-dress and Kris knows...I think most ppl thought it was Lamar and Khloe.
http://boyculture.typepad.com/boy_culture/2012/01/so-many-men.html
Jen, not that long ago people felt the same way about their gay kids. Some still do. The point is there are always going to be gay and trans people. That won't change, but our collective views can. Then maybe in 20 years it won't be so hard for these kids or their parents.
ReplyDeletehe seems smart and delightful, looks like his father. Jen, what r u gonna do? you hv to let kids be who they are. you wldnt choose it for them, but they have to live their lives.
ReplyDeleteI think there was a post a couple months ago that she was having second thoughts about the surgery. Maybe that's what Enty was talking about?
ReplyDelete"Words mean things". Word up!
ReplyDeleteAssholes on twitter that tweet homophobic, racist, misogynistic, bigoted shit cannot go back in time and say "OOOPS, sorry, :-0"
I think twitter is great for that reason, you can plainly see who is a freaking idiot, crazy, fool (50 cent).
So now we're not allowed to say that something would make us sad? It's one thing to say "Oh, I would NOT accept my child this way" or something more harsh, but please don't attack a poster for saying something would make her sad. She's just being honest
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
DeleteLet's not all jump on Jen here. I think any person who wishes for their child to have a good life also realizes that being gay, trans, or whatever is going to be harder on them than being straight. Jen didn't say she wouldn't accept her daughter, only that she would feel sorry if the daughter came out as a trans man. I think we would all feel sorry if our kids did that, no matter how much we support and love them. It's just a harder life, and you don't want that for your kid.
ReplyDeleteJen didn't sound like she was condemning Stephen. I would be sad, too, if my daughter grew up in such confusion. There are blogs out there by parents of transgendered kids, and they certainly express both love AND sadness.
ReplyDeleteAmazonblue, I am pretty sure I read "Ira" is a family name - I think for one of his grandparents. Not sure if it's on Warren's or Annette's side.
ReplyDeleteHoly cow this kid talks fast...lol. I remember when he (then she) was born. Gorgeous baby. I thought how ironic that Warren Beatty the womanizer had a daughter for his first child.
He needs to get out of his head...he is trying way too hard.
ReplyDeleteseems like he is overthinking things.
I don't hold it against his parents, must be very very hard to give birth to a girl and then have to get used to having a son.
@Jen - Why is it sad? Why would you be heartbroken? Can you elaborate, as I am curious?
ReplyDeleteHaving trans friends, and having gone to trans support groups (for trans men and women and their families/partners/etc) - parents have the right to be heartbroken. They're "losing" one child, gaining another, and they have no idea who this new child is. I've heard mothers say the same thing as Jen did, in a room full of trans men and women, and everyone accepts it. It's a feeling, her feeling, their feeling. No one hopes that their child will have to struggle through something like this.
ReplyDeleteStephen's candor and optimism gives me hope.
@Sunny - come on now... we have every right to respond to folks when they are "just being honest". In some folks reality people are "coons" and "faggots". Yeah, they are just being honest. And so am I, when I call them "bigots".
ReplyDeleteRegarding the support of his parents...we have absolutley no idea what goes on in their private lives. Perhaps he doesn't want to name drop his parents.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you Jen I am not Homophobic but I wouldn't want my kid to chop off his penis and make it into a vagina, or vice versa.
ReplyDeleteHell I was sad when my kid decided not to play pro tennis after I spent thousands of dollars on private lessons.
In the end America is a great nation and we have freedoms which apparently includes changing your sex.
Maybe I'm weird but I could care less if my child decided they wanted to be the other sex. They are still my child, and my love for them is deeper then their sexual identity. To not be supportive of your child when they are going through this, speaks more to your issues rather than theirs.
ReplyDeleteYes it must be confusing, but isn't that we are there for as parents, to help our children navigate through tough issues. Sometimes all we can do is be there and be supportive as they figure it out.
It's too bad his parents could not get over their own biases and concern for public image and made sure he had all the love and support needed to go through a difficult time.
@luckylass
ReplyDeleteI absolutely I adore you, so I am going to answer truthfully why I would be sad. I have 2 small children, and I never knew I could experience such depths of emotions until I had them. You love them so much, that you feel like your heart will burst out of your chest, and other days you feel like your heart is BREAKING when they experience pain (physical or emotional) or rejection. It's practically unbearable. I know I will grow a thicker skin as they get older and have more experiences, but the thought of having them face more obstacles would just make me sick with worry. I would love them just as much, but I would indeed be sad. I'm just being honest.
And again, I see the point you are trying to make, but I don't equate saying something will make you sad, is the same as calling someone disgusting names. I have acted as an advocate for a couple of my friends' children when their parents were struggling to accept their sexuality so my heart goes out to all parties
Wow. What y'all saw as enthusiasm, I found a little disturbing. Seems very intelligent but that brain is buzzing all over the place like a beehive. And words coming out of his mouth faster than I can process them.
ReplyDelete@Sunny - Thanks for that. That makes all the sense in the world to me. You sound like a lovely and loving parent - thank heavens there are some out there!!!!
ReplyDeleteYou know, in this crazy twitter age, sometimes the truncated version of things just isn't enough.
As a parent, you have a "dream" for your child's future. You imagine they have a life better than your's. One with fewer struggels and pains. One with better choices and fewer mistakes. That's just your hopes and dreams. It hurts when I see my kids struggle with emotions. When a friend doesn't respond to a message. When someone says or does something to them that hurts them. When they have to sit out an inning or quarter in a game. I can't fix it. I can't make it better. They need to live through it. Of course, in the long run it will make them a better person. Would I turn against them if they made a decision I didn't agree with? No. But that doesn't mean it would cause me concern, angst, or even sadness. Emotions are what they are. You can not argue about how someone feels. It's a process you need to go through to get to the other side. A better place. It's like the steps of the grief process. You finally reach acceptance after the roller coaster of other emotions.
ReplyDelete^wouldn't cause me concern...
ReplyDeleteI thought Annette Bening was the supportive parental unit and Warren was the (former) bonk monster
ReplyDeleteHe's adorable - what a great young man he seems to be. I think that as parents, we may have ideas about what path our kids "should" take, but in the end, we need to support, love and accept them exactly as they are. I hope my children are even half as happy and seemingly self possessed as Stephen is on this vid. Warren & Anne did good, me thinks.
ReplyDelete@luckylass
ReplyDeleteThanks for understanding where I was coming from
@Patty
I think we posted at the same time. Different words, same sentiment :)
Although I think everyone has the right to feel what they want to feel. But I think its this type of reaction that makes it harder for trans/ homosexuals. The fact is you are not getting a new child, you are getting a different exterior or your assumption of thier sexuality was wrong. And the confusion lies w/ the parent, not the individual.
ReplyDeleteThe mother of one of my gay friends made this very comment while we were conversing. How sad it was for her when she learned he gay. She didn't say it in a way that she thought it would hurt her son. But in the end it was a reminder that no matter how supportive they are of how his sexuality, he is still a disappointment.
Great kid. If, indeed, his parents don't support him, I feel sad for them. They don't know what they are missing out on.
ReplyDeleteHe seems sweet, but if he's going to be a gay man why go through all that....
ReplyDeleteI try but I just don't get it..
I know! My hubby and I hv discussed this!! I dont think its fair. I saw an asian man once, beautiful hair, great outfit, good build, lame sandals- i was like hey!! Of course u look great!! U taking best from both worlds!! I had to pick, do u!!! (said tongue in cheek). But tjis did look great! Lolololol
DeleteBTW the kid is adorable! Agree with @jcs
ReplyDeleteIn the end, what more can a parent want then to have a child grow up to be happy and healthy? Who cares in what wrapping that comes in.
My parents had a fit with me wanting to get my teeth bleached. I can only imagine if I wanted to become a guy how they would have reacted. Lmao
ReplyDeleteIt would make me sad if my son wanted to be a woman but I would still be rooting for him. Teach him how to put on makeup right;-)
It shouldn't be your children's burden if you dreams don't come true. Your job as a parent is to love unconditionally and let them know everyday. And if you think you have a hard time with their decision, imagine how they feel. It's not about you, it's about them. People kill themselves sometimes because they'd rather be dead then live a lie anymore or even because they can't bear to scrutiny anymore; especially when it's coming from the parents.
ReplyDeleteA
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ReplyDeleteI'd much rather watch a TV show on this guy that Pete Rose and his new bride. And don't be so harsh on Warren or Annette, I remember when Cher was not exactly thrilled or supportive when Chastity wanted to become a man either but she came around.
ReplyDeleteWhy do some of you have to be such jerks when someone expresses an opinion that is different from your own? Most of the time you aren't even properly reading what you are objecting to in your haste to be judgmental jerks. Sorry but this has been brewing for while.
Awww, I think he's sweet. I love people who can speak as fast as I can.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy for people to say how they would or would not feel/act/behave if it was their kid when it's NOT their kid.
ReplyDeleteI don't have kids, so I'm not going to say how I would react if my kid presented as the opposite gender. I like to think I would be totally cool with it, etc. But it seems like this is one of those situations where you really don't know how you'll react until you are actually IN the situation and it's YOUR kid.
That said, Stephen seems likable and enthusiastic. I wish him the best.
Cassidy, so according to you, people who don't "support" transgendered people need to remain silent? Nice attitude. You apparently have forgotten that we (most of us, anyway) live in the USA, where people are not required to agree on everything and have the right to voice their opinions.
ReplyDeleteSee, this is what annoys me about so many liberals. They spend so much time patting themselves on the back about how open-minded and tolerant they are, when in reality they are only tolerant of people who agree with them. What's the challenge in that? The real meaning of tolerance is supporting and respecting those who DON'T agree with you.
@KaizerKill, I think it's important that people be allowed to process what they feel AND that they take the trouble to get educated. That's true of parents and it's true of people in this community.
ReplyDeleteMy best friend's 6 year old son likes to wear dresses. He's always preferred girls' clothes, and sparkly, colorful items, from when started speaking. My friend and her husband have worked very hard to be neutral about his choices. They discussed his predilections with his preschool and kindergarten teachers to make sure he wouldn't get bullied. Sometimes other kids have challenged him, and he's very matter of fact: I'm a boy, and I sometimes like to wear dresses.
Will he grow up to be transvestite or transgenedered or gay? Maybe. He's also artistic, articulate, social, and very athletic. And very bubbly and happy, no doubt in part because his parents came to terms early on with their need to support whatever person he is becoming. But they've processed all this A LOT along the way. They've dealt with grandparents who were very critical. Supporting our kids is essential, but it's okay to also need support ourselves when our kids surprise us.
I hv similar situation in my friend's family, only its a girl. Like i saud, what r u gonna do? They are who they are. They are handling it the way ur friends are, and she is delightful.
DeleteTexshan, I agree that you are very correct when you say liberals are only tolerant when people agree with them, they are not open minded or respectful at all, it appears, to other points of view. Having a different opinion does not make someone a homophobe/bigot/racist in all cases.
ReplyDelete@Cassidy--Amen
ReplyDeleteI love his enthusiasm. He's fantastic... he just needs to sloooooooooow down.
ReplyDelete@Black Cat, I agree with you that there can be a definite groupthink on CDAN boards - whether it's TOM IS EVIL and KATIE IS GOOD or that some points of view on sexual politics are simply not permissible.
ReplyDeleteThere's a big difference between "I disagree strongly with what you are saying, and your opinion hurts my feelings" and "Your opinion is morally wrong, and you are unkind and a bigot."
When Tyler Clementi - the gay teen from New Jersey who killed himself after his roommate webcast a sexual encounter - was a hot topic, the appropriate opinion on these boards seemed to be was that the roommate was a MURDERER and should be put in jail forever. Posters who suggested that what the roommate did was terribly cruel, but not necessarily homicidal, were called homophobic. Ultimately, however, the jury in the roommate's case decided exactly that.
@Cassidy you articulate the point I was trying to make much better than I.
ReplyDelete@Texashan you've given me a whole new perspective. In order for me to understand this sadness I need to imagine my child becoming a raging angery conservative. Now that would be a very sad day for me.
@ Blackcat I agree with you: "Having a different opinion does not make someone a homophobe/bigot/racist in all cases."
ReplyDeleteThat is the great thing about commenting here and expressing our views. If I feel something is a little on the racist side of things (ala Gordon Ramsey recently), I can say so. In turn, I can be called oversensitive. That is cool.
If your opinion is in the minority, though - it is what it is. Crap, my blind guesses are unusually in the minority - whatevs.
as a parent, i wish him love, peace and strength. that's all i wish for my kids. readers, please don't turn this into political bs. i'm here to avoid reality today. thank you in advance and have a nice day!
ReplyDelete58 comments and counting, and not a one mentions his Cosby sweater? I'm VERY disappointed CDaNers!
ReplyDeleteBut seriously, what a cool and intelligent guy. We need more of him and less of the haters who pervade our society.
@Another Josh
ReplyDeleteHa! Thanks for lightening the mood! I am the youngest child, so I am really good at tap-dancing (figuratively) to get people to stop fighting. I've been holding back on this, but I have to say something. . . .
My good friend from high school was the Beatty's nanny then personal chef for over 5 years!!!!!!! i was dying to say that. ahhh
I think he is Totes Amazeballs.
ReplyDeleteis annette as dreamy in real life as she is in my tv? did your friend ever say? she's in my freebie list (and yes i'm a married woman with kids)
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter if I'm a liberal or conservative (I am independent by the way.) I am 24 and live in Portland. It could be argued that I live at one of the key spots for the LGBT community. I have gay friends, ones who's parent don't accept them and ones who do. I know people who've killed themselves because their parents only knew how to express themselves through disappointment. So as a person who is watching her friends struggle, I'm going to tell you what your damaging opinion does. If the worse thing your kid ever does is say "Hey Mom, all my life I've felt trapped and I can't live this lie anymore" the first thing out of your mouth should be "I love you and support you." " It doesn't matter if this is America, you are entitled to your opinion. But when it comes to someone else's kid, your opinion means nothing. And if it were your kid, I'm pretty sure you'd make sure only your opinion mattered. And my point is, when your opinion is one of the most important ones, it should be as supportive, loving, and uncritical as possible. You never know what your harsh words or actions will do to someone.
ReplyDelete@dizzyeggs
ReplyDeleteWhat makes me a total loser is that I have no scoop - I just wanted to change the subject and share that info :)
My other guy friend was a nanny for Tony Robbins. I just always thought it was weird that 2 of my friends wound up being nannies for famous people.
I love Annette too. American President is one of those movies I can watch over and over
Cassidy- People like you terrify me. "Support him or keep SILENT"? Are you serious? Whatever happened to disagreeing with what a person is saying, but defending their right to say it? I bet you'd have no problem making that into a law, right? What would you do with the "bigots", throw them into camps? Exterminate them because there's no place for their unapproved ideas and beliefs in this society? Or just "re-educate" them?
ReplyDeleteYou and your kind are a million times more dangerous to a free society than all the bigots in the world could ever be. I pray to God (yes, that heteronormative sky racist!) that people like you NEVER EVER get to enact your insane ideas in this country, because it would be Stalinist Russia all over again. Unbelievable and so, so scary. Do you even realize what you're advocating? I certainly hope not...
I think it's kind of interesting that so many jumped on Jen for stating her opinion. She didn't do any name calling. She didn't spew hate. She told her honest feeling-sadness. So are we now being told what to think and what to feel in addition to how to speak and how to vote?
ReplyDeleteI bet many of you would feel sad if your child were to grow up to be a Republican! Or perhaps make choices that you wouldn't feel were necessarily in their best interest or what you would have felt was the right thing to do.
As a person born as intersexed, no one knows and understands more than I do about the complexity of sexuality. (I have Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.) But trust me, I was sad to learn of this. I was sad that I would not have natural children (although I love the dickens out of my 3 adopted children!) I was sad that I wasn't what I thought I was.
The Beatty's are looking at their child not only changing their identity, but also taking the drastic measure of taking hormones and preparing for gender reassignment surgery.
I think that unless we can speak openly and frankly with one another, we cannot have growth and acceptance. I have found that shoving your feelings down someone else's throat and calling them names is not the way to build openness and understanding-it just turns people off.
I think this young man is incredibly smart and although an admitted fast-talker, certainly has a lot to say and a lot to offer. He also seems quite self-aware, educated and knows what he wants, even able to admit that may change in the future. I hope his parents can learn to accept him as he makes his journey.
@Redheat I agree with you. Being both a Grandparent and a flaming Liberal, I can also listen to the other side. Maybe it comes with age. I don't want to argue with anyone. I have a lot of very conservative friends and some family. For 30 yrs. I was married to a very conservative man. I just remember how hard things were in the past for anyone that was different and had hoped by the time I had gotten this old that we would not be still having all the problems that we do. Racism, Sexism, anti everyone, but who agrees with me. We all love are kids and only want the best for them. We all agree to have different opinions and I love to read the comments bc I never get the blinds right and you all make me laugh.
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ReplyDeleteNutty Flavor, I think your post pointed out something very important. You said, "There's a big difference between 'I disagree strongly with what you are saying, and your opinion hurts my feelings' and 'Your opinion is morally wrong, and you are unkind and a bigot.'" The deal is, different people have different moral positions. It's not up to anyone to dictate to someone else what their moral position SHOULD be. People are free to form their own opinions on things, and shouldn't be abused if their position differs from the majority.
ReplyDeleteBut a moral position isn't even what was originally being discussed. Saying that having your child identify as transgendered (or gay) would make you sad isn't hateful or bigoted. It's a realization that the hopes and dreams that you had for your child will not be realized the way you had always pictured them, and that your child will go through life facing many more challenges and obstacles than you would wish for them. That's reality.
My mom is sad that I never wanted to get married or have kids; that doesn't mean she doesn't accept and support my choices, or love me any mess.
@Ice Angel - thanks for your intelligent insight. That's the reason I keep coming back to CDAN boards - I learn so much.
ReplyDeleteThis is my last comment. I wish people did not see the world in black and white. It's all freakin grey. While I would feel "sad" for the reasons I explained earlier, I would never let on to my child that I felt this way.
ReplyDelete@Cassidy. The first time I acted as the liason between my friend's kid and her parents was because I sensed a change in demeanor in that I couldn't put my finger on. I tried to talk to her about it, but I think she was reluctant because she didn't think another adult could be her ally. Long story endless, I asked her to share her sketchpad with me (she's an artist and expresses herself through art the way other people do with poetry). Sure enough, I saw dark imagery dealing with death etc and that was it for me. I got involved.
The only reason I am who I am today is because I had the unconditional love and support of my parents. When everything went to shit, they were there for me. I wish that for every kid, but it's becoming clearer to me that this isn't the norm :(
@ sunny-- it doesn't make you a loser, it makes you a good friend. nothing wrong with that. i don't know if i could contain myself. i would want to know if they had chickens, as i'm chicken 'focused', and might be a little disappointed if they didn't have any. tilda swinton is on my list and she has chickens! mark ruffalo has chickens also! there are non chicken people on my list also. i'm not that focused ;o)
ReplyDelete@Texshan, thanks. I think children very rarely precisely fulfill the hopes their parents had for them. Maybe that's for the best - living out your parents' dreams doesn't sound like a very good way to spend your life!
ReplyDeleteI really have other things to do...But @watermelon, talk about taking a liberal interpretation of @Cassidy's comment. He/She is trying to help others understand how they've witnessed this type of behavior, and how it negatively impacted people they know.
ReplyDeleteAlso, don't start accusing people of being Godless just because they don't agree with your unfortunate point of view. Nothing angers me more than your interpretation/ use of religion.
I just want to say that for a gossip blog, there are some very articulate, and intelligent folks here. Although we differ in opinions, on the whole our discussions are civil. I appreciate that.
ReplyDeleteTo those who talk about having sad feelings if or because their children are transgender or gay or don't want to join the swim team, of course it's natural to have feelings. What does that have to do with being conservative or Liberal? I don't think anyone here is saying it's not natural to feel your feelings. What I think needs to change in this country, are not people's feelings, but rather their reactions. So that hopefully eventually, parents and others will feel their feelings and deal with their own stuff on their own (maybe call a friend or a therapist or join a support group,) and not off loading their sadness, disappointment or any other negative feelings onto their LBGT child's shoulders. Why do people think their feelings are so important when it comes to someone else's life?
ReplyDelete@Ice Age- I would be more horrified if my kid said she was a Republican, then if she said she wanted to be a man:) but I'd still love and support her.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is free and should be free to feel however they want to. When my kid announced she was bi, I didn't bat an eye, but that is me.
However, having struggled with depression and thoughts of suicide growing up, I will say that words hurt and if a parent is going to be sad then think about doing it in private, you may need to express your sadness/disappointment but that doesn't mean that it requires someone else having to take it on. Not judging! just saying, words do hurt and don't kid yourself thinking they don't.
Thank you, Kaizer.
ReplyDeleteI actually have a relationship with God, so unfortunately for you, you are a bit of a hypocrite. Because I'm telling you how harmful a opinion that sensitive can be. Please, come to my town and be here for years and listen to stories so you understand why people in similar situations hurt themselves. And isn't it a bit extremist (the same thing you seem to accuse me of) that you would assume I am an atheist and that I am telling you what to believe. You know personally, I'm pro-gay marriage. If you weren't, why'll I disagree and thinks its narrow minded, it's your opinion to have come voting time. I care about an opinion being wrong when someone is going to be hurt. I've witnessed it time and time again. Conservative parents, liberal, christian, non-religious; your negative words and hang-ups about a child's sexual orientation will harm them. I'm telling you as someone that age.
Sunny, I appreciate your experience. And I agree in some places, you should step in. But with this, it the parent doesn't ask for your opinion, I don't really think its your place to voice it.
Sorry kaizer, middle part wasn't directed @ you. It was @ watermelon.
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ReplyDelete@Cassidy, I took the liberty of interpreting your comment as you intended.
ReplyDeleteAnd Thank you from the lesser known, Portland on the otherside of the country.
KaizerKill, I obviously wasn't serious about the God thing. If I was seriously devout, you think I'd be so disrespectful? I'm very sorry that anything that you disagree with is "unfortunate".
ReplyDeleteLook, I'm sorry if people get their feelings hurt, but honestly, who wants to be around a person that you have to watch every word you say and live in fear of unwittingly offending them because you might not be up on whatever the correct, non-offensive terminology is that day. If you allow people to control language, you allow them to control your thoughts and I have a big problem with that.
In a perfect world, everyone would know the right things to say and nobody would ever be offended but we don't live in a hug box fantasyland. Not all parents are supportive, and it doesn't always have to do with sexuality. I'm a regular normal person and my parents have always treated me like crap. Nobody on earth bullied me like my own loving mother did (although I was horribly bullied in school as well) and she hasn't spoken to me in a year because I dared to move away.
Sometimes people are just jerks and it's THEIR problem. When you allow them to control you by caring about their opinions, you let them win. Living well is the best revenge, and if you truly believe that who and what you are is ok, then why would the opinion of a "bigot homophobe" even faze you? Eventually you have to grow up and get over it. it's not the popular thing to do, everyone wants to gain protected/victim status since it's the cool thing nowadays, but the only person you're hurting with that mindset is yourself. You think the bullies ever think about you once they're done bullying you? Why let them take up so much space in your head?
As a parent, i think i would be sad only if my children died or started taking drugs.
ReplyDeleteeverything else which shows expression of self - to be what they truly want to be - is a-ok by me.
Also, I have nothing against civil unions. I do not support re-defining an entire word that has meant one thing for all of human history just so some people's feelings won't be hurt. It's that whole "control language, control people's thoughts" thing again.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing against gay or trans people as they are citizens and deserve something that is EQUAL to what other citizens get.
The problem is that it never stops with equality, it turns into special treatment and favoritism, like Affirmative Action. Nothing you do ever makes it equal, you never make up for the past, and someone ALWAYS finds some discrimination or excuse to keep policies that are favorable to their pet protected class. Discriminating against people now doesn't fix past discrimination, all it does is sow more hatred and anger. How do people not see this?
I am for TRUE equality, where people are judged, hired, whatever based on merit. Nothing is more infuriating than not being able to hire the best person for the job because you need more of whatever protected class isn't represented enough. Well, unless it's someone automatically assuming that you have a problem with them because of their sexuality, skin color or whatever. Sometimes people just suck and it has nothing to do with that. Not everyone is a good fit for everything and we do everyone a disservice when we run things based on some arbitrary quota.
I'm sure many of you would think I'm a horrible bigot but I honestly give everyone a chance until they prove they suck. If you piss and moan about how horrible everyone is, and how bigoted people are, then you're probably not a pleasant person to be around and I don't want to be around you because you are a sad sack whiner, not because you're gay or whatever.
Everyone deserves respect and to be treated the way you'd like then to treat you, but it's a two way street. I think people don't realize that getting in people's faces and screaming about how they're so horrible isn't going to win anyone over, it just makes you look like an unstable psychopath and who wants to be around that?
Whoa holy tl;dr but I hope this clarifies some things.
@watermelon riot - this discussion will be necessary until folks in the LGBT community have the same rights as everyone else. I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone here is upset that people disagree, but upset that kids still have to suffer their parent's disappointed feelings.
ReplyDelete@ L - I totally agree.
@watermelon I'm not sure how giving perspective is being overly sensitive. And it would seem from the aggressiveness of your comments that you suffer from the same affliction that you are accusing me and others of. I've tried to refrain from using accusatory statements, I never called you or anyone else a "bigot homophone". And I personally did find your statement unfortunate, which is both an expression of emotion and opinion. And from your own perspective I should have the right to say that w/o you reacting in a sensative manner.
ReplyDeleteWhat this all comes down to is interpretation. I'm not telling you and others how to behave. My original comment was to show my own experiences with the whole "sad" issue. I'm not saying people don't have a right to thier reactions/ emotions. I was just highlighting how it could affect the individual that that sadness it directed toward. It made me sad that my friend was still dealing with the emotional repercussion of coming out a full decade later.
I take religion very seriously. It frustrates me when people try to justify bigotry or any form of hate through thier religiosity. And since that happens quite often, I'm not sure why it would be so obvious that you were being sarcastic.
Its too bad you had crappy parents. Certainly most people wish thier parents could be different in one way or another. But as adults we either learn from our parents mistakes or we fall into the same patterns of learned helplessnes. I can only hope you find peace.
Wasn't there a post a while ago that Stephen was questioning whether he was really transgender or not? That is what I thought Enty was referring to.
ReplyDeleteI might have imagined it but I thought I read a short post about it here a few months or weeks ago.
How many of the conservative anti-gay people on here even bothered to watch Stephen's frankly adorable video? This is NOT a fictitious senario about what if this were your child or whatever. And this is not about being in 'Merica (this is how it sounds when ya'll talk about that shit)and being able to express and live by your opinions on the topic. This is about young trans men like Stephen right here. His face, all lite up with excitement for the future, with knowledge about how he can impact change, with a stong voice he is using to express his strength, confidence, intelligence, and happiness. ALLL of that comes from knowing he was different than the status quo gender binary of woman/man feminine/masculine, etc. He felt different, he was allowed to BE different, and he was embraced by friends around him to act on that difference and grow from their acceptance. AND SOME OF YOU POO POO ON THIS? Some of you want to extinguish his flame by stating how horrible this would be if it were your kid or how us liberals just dont want to hear anybody's opinions but our own?! The difference here is, you assholes, that YOUR OPINIONS cause bright shining stars like this to die out, people who could be so full of light like Stephen kill themselves, or live their lives closed in , closed down, and all to be acceptd in a society so people like you arent challenged by their gender and sexualty. I just cant with this fucking bullshit. I came on here to write something happy about this video, after spending over 6 minutes listening to a delightfully happy and strong young man, filled to bursting with the passion to help others like him and to just live a good life. And this forum, as usual, becomes a battleground where conservatives say something ignorant and not tolerent or accepting, they get called on it (like they should) and then more conservatives come out of the woodwork to defend their "rights", like their opionions arent CAUSING people to stay in the closet or kill themselves, like their opinions arent causing gay men and women to have fewer rights than straight people. fuck you conservatives. and i dont give a fuck if I should try to see your side. When your side causes people like this young man to suffer why should I give a fuck what you think?
ReplyDeleteLove you Jaz.
DeleteYou seem to throw stones at glass houses, watermelon. Personally,I think your view on gay marriage is obtuse but it's your opinion. It doesn't directly and toxically affect someone's psyche. But something as personal as gender association, the very first way we identify ourselves, is something that needs to be handled with care. And nothing you could really say got under my skin. But when people seem to think more about their own views than how it'll affect their children and how serious those views will be, I get on my soapbox. Read the thousands of stories of kids struggles with coming out and tell me I'm wrong. I'd say 80% at least say how important it was that their mom and/or dad accepted them.
ReplyDelete@AnotherJosh ,I am frustrated because Stephen is a Red Sox fan. I bet Enty had an opportunity to show a picture of him in his Red Sox shirt but is denying me that pleasure, and I take that personally, very personally:)
ReplyDeleteWell, the Pirates are in 1st place in their division. The universe is out of whack. Enjoy, Pirates fan!
I like you Jasmine lol.
ReplyDelete_._._= touché lol.
I don't know how to make myself any more clear, so let me try this:
ReplyDeleteNOT EVERYONE WILL OPENLY CELEBRATE YOU AND YOUR LIFE, NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE.
This is just part of life. No matter how many laws you pass, how much you curtail free speech, you can never change what's in someone's heart and that's the bottom line. So it seems pretty foolish to live your life being a victim and whining about how you're so discriminated against. If people hate you, they're gonna hate no matter what you do.
Jasmine, if you think that anything I or anyone else says directly causes someone to kill themselves, then you are deranged and need to seek help immediately. Either way, what would your suggestion be to solve this alleged problem? Make laws that only allow you to say acceptable, pre-approved comments on issues like these? Who is going to decide what's acceptable and what isn't? You? I'm honestly interested in an answer that isn't hysterical emotional shrieking peppered with "fuck you". That is, if you think you can manage to converse with a hateful bigot conservative like me.
Oh BTW thanks for labeling me as such when you have no idea what my politics are. I guess it's only acceptable to make judgments based on your perceptions when it's fighting for tolerance and acceptance against the eeeevil conservatives? Seems completely logical and sensible, we DEFINITELY need to put you in charge of the "approved discourse" list!
And if you don't think redefining words won't lead to some "1984" shit, then you're insane. I mean, you're all so much more tolerant, educated and enlightened than I so you'd think it would be pretty darn evident that this is where we're headed but I guess it's ok when it's "fighting for equality", a word that doesn't seem to mean what it used to (oops there's that pesky redefining of words again!)
All of this reminds me of a great quote "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" but it seems that it should be re-written as "When fascism comes to America it'll be couched in terms like tolerance and acceptance". But that must be because I'm an ignorant bigot lol.
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ReplyDeleteAs a pro-gay marriage conservative (yes-there is such a thing) I'd like to give my fellow pro-gay marriage advocates a little advise.
ReplyDeleteAs I said above, you can attract more bees with honey than vinegar. Calling someone hateful names isn't going to garner support. It will make us vs. them.
Look-my religion says it is a sin to have sex with a person of the same sex. It also says it is a sin to have sex before marriage, and that divorce is not permissible.
Now-in my opinion, the serious problem with the pro gay advocacy groups and why they make people be afraid and dislike them is that they not only want to stop at making the laws the same for all-they want those who disagree with their opinions to be shamed into agreeing with them.
That is not fair and not an acceptable way to further your cause. Vegetarians don't eat meat and that's their right. They can put whatever they like into their bodies. But don't call me evil because I eat meat, or try to pass laws banning me to eat meat. They have their opinions and are entitled to them, but just because I don't agree with you doesn't equate to Me=Bad Person You=Good Person.
Now-I am unique, as an XY female, and it's taken me a lot of growth to accept who I am and I do. I try and educate people about same sex marriage, homosexuality, transgenders and especially the intersexed. But Rome wasn't built in a day. In fact, many parts of it were destroyed over the years, so be careful and have patience.
So my point is that only through education, openness and honesty can our differences be discussed. But you need to ask yourself-do you really want acceptance? Or do you just want to be right? Do you really want people to understand your point of view? Or are you happy to have someone shut up and go away out of fear because you called them names. Because that person you called a name to because of their opinion....they don't AGREE with you now. They STILL disagree with you now, but are less likely to ever be open to discussion ever again.
So if kindness and understanding is what you truly want...then conduct yourself with kindness and understanding. You can't expect people who have been raised to believe one thing completely change their opinion simply because YOU SAID SO. Life doesn't work that way.
So I will leave with this: speak kindly to one another, even those you vehemently disagree with...and trust me...you will get much further rewards in the end.
I remember when the kid was about 14 there was a BI on that guy's who is not to be mentioned blog about him. The blind said that the transgender kid of the super famous couple was pulled from the school and was going to be homeschooled to avoid the speculations. The blind was quickly solved. And lots of other posts have spread the news and the family had to comment on the situation. That was kind of mean. The family was living their life and then one day the rumour was spread on the blog with million audience. So he had to come out and make his sex a public matter and become a spokesperson for trams people whether he was ready for it or not. Does anybody else remember this?
ReplyDelete@Ice Angel, beautifully stated, as always.
ReplyDelete@watermelon - What you said below, That's how people felt too, before interracial marriage was legalized.
ReplyDeleteAnd how is anyone "curtailing" your free speech? I think people are just calling you out on your inconsistencies. And, speaking of facism, explain how one person's free speech should be able hinder someone else's right to equality and happiness.
Perhaps if people continue to be called out, we will stop being "sad" about other people's choices that we just don't understand.
Blogger watermelon riots said...
No matter how many laws you pass, how much you curtail free speech, you can never change what's in someone's heart and that's the bottom line. So it seems pretty foolish to live your life being a victim and whining about how you're so discriminated against...
@ Agent...thanks!
ReplyDeleteThanks for proving our point, Jasmine.
ReplyDeleteI think the video was darling! I have a friend who talks that fast. I wish him all the best and I hope everyone can get married one day. All you need is love, la de da de da...
ReplyDeleteI can't have a conversation with you watermelon, you don't hold yourself to the same standards you're accusing others of not meeting. You don't want us to assume and generalize but that is what you are doing. I'm sure in your head, you make sense. But you have to recognize your views or assumptions I should say are hypocritical. I can't change others ignorance, I can try to enlighten them with the seriousness of what they are promoting when discussing their opinions regarding this issue. And all I can say to you is stop watching whatever it is that is convincing you everyone who disagrees with hate is a socialist. Pot calling the kettle black darlin'.
ReplyDeleteOK, whatever. All of that went completely over your head, so carry on thinking I'm a bigot, ignorant and that I "agree with hate". I don't know what's so hard to understand about this simple statement:
ReplyDeleteI MAY NOT AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
It compels me to defend people like Westboro Baptist Church, the Black Panthers and the KKK's RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT I AGREE WITH WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
A free society is not always nice, polite or considerate of feelings. That's the price one pays for freedom and if it makes me a bigot and ignorant, then I will wear those labels with pride.
THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH TRUMPS YOUR RIGHT TO NOT BE OFFENDED OR HURT. Sometimes people say mean, hateful things. It sucks but it's reality. The Founding Fathers thought this particular right was so important that they made it number one. I personally think the right to bear arms is the most important one of all, but that's just me...and I proudly exercise that right each and every day right alongside the 1st Amendment and all the others.
If you wish to give up YOUR right to free speech because you believe people's tender feelings trump all, then that is your choice. You can be as politically correct as you wish and censor yourself til the cows come home. Once you infringe upon anyone else's right to free speech, it becomes a problem, and I will fight you and anyone else like you to the death for MY rights.
I am not talking about YOU personally, but you cannot deny that there has been a push by politicians to do just this, so when I see people saying stuff like that, my hackles go up immediately. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance and I take my citizenship and rights VERRRRRRY SERIOUSLY. Many of my ancestors fought and died for my rights and I like to think I honor them each time I speak out against creeping fascism. FASCISM, not socialism, although we seem to be going for some kind of weird hybrid of the two.
It honestly makes me very afraid for this country and my children when I see this mindset because this is where it starts. You think they haven't been working on finding something that will get the people to willingly lay down their rights? If not, you must not know much about our elitist ruling class scum but I'm an actual DC area native and have been obsessed with this for my entire life, and I've seen these people up close and personal. I know what their goals are and it has NOTHING to do with "equality" or "rights" or anything like that. They want to enslave us all and it won't matter one damn bit if you're gay, black, white or whatever when they get their way. If you cannot see that this is more bread and circuses and a big mind fuck then I honestly don't know what to tell you except best of luck and I wish you well.
Didn't you read Ice Angel's post?
ReplyDelete"Enlightening" people who don't know anything about this lifestyle - like me - isn't the way to go about it.
I know next to nothing about the LGBT life, and I don't pretend to know.
It's like not hating my LGBT stepkid. I don't like what they do at all (which I noted in the post that I deleted, because it wasn't relevant to this convo), but it has nothing to do with their being LGBT.
The way to get "straight allies" isn't to tell them they're the enemy, they're the cause of all LGBT pain, and calling people "hypocritical" and "pot calling the kettle black". Think before you type.
umm actually, its all going over your head @watermelon. Free speech works in both directions. At this point I don't care what your views are, I just really really want you to understand how you don't practice what you preach. Freedom of speech does not = freedom from criticism.
ReplyDeleteI've been a long term reader, and an occasional poster, but threads like this are making me rethink what I want to do with my odd moments during the day. I truly thought we had a nice little society here, supportive of each other, but this calling each other out for differing views, and being oh so careful to be politically correct, so much so that you bash those who think it's sad when a child is gay, transgender or "different" in any other way, when you heap on the criticism of all liberals, and when you are hateful to each other...this is not the CDAN community that I thought I knew. I don't find Stephen Beatty "adorable", I think he's quite childish for someone 20 years old, and apparently the actor gene skipped town with him because he doesn't realize you need to speak clearly if you make a video. I don't understand why it's a bad thing to want a good life for your child, or to feel sad when the child is burdened with something that will make life harder for him/her. And just when in hell did "liberal" become a bad word?
ReplyDeleteWell, I think he's adorable - that heady mix of confidence, nervousness, excitement, intelligence and glee that comes from teens.
ReplyDeletei'm with jen. i actually had this conversation with a friend of mine the other day. the idea that the baby girl/boy you brought home from the hospital was "gone", was now a boy/girl, would really be sad. it would seem as if the life you gave them was wrong. like you got everything wrong for them their whole life. and as a parent, you WANT to get it right. you want every birthday and christmas to be the best. and in this case it would be like every thing you ever did was the wrong thing. its because you love them that you would ache.
ReplyDeleteThis is lovely, and charming. I think Stephen's thoughts simply run on the autobahn - nothing wrong with that. What a sweetie!
ReplyDeleteI sort of ache whenever my daughter gets a new tattoo - but she has wanted them since she was 6, and is now 24, so can do what she wants. I don't care if she is Lesbiand, Bi, or Transexual. Her happiness is first and foremost, and if I'm uncomfortable about the ways she chooses to achieve that, then that's my cross to bear. Tattoos are my weird issue, so I understand other parent's issues. In the end, we want our kids to be happy. We want to shield them from pain, but that is impossible, so we just have to let go and trust that some of the things we taught them will be of use.
ReplyDeleteI sympathize, i wld not be at all happy if my kids got tatoo happy. They arent, but my four nieces snd nephews are, and i hate it. I just look and say,". Oh how nice"- they know i mot a fan, but they have to walk their own path.
DeleteCassidy, can you honestly not tell the difference between not actively supporting something and hate? Because it sure seems like it. Watermelon and several others on this board (including me) do not actively support the LBGT lifestyle. But we aren't out there attacking LGBT people, we aren't promoting violence against them, we aren't doing ANYTHING to them. We just don't embrace their lifestyle. How is that hateful? Seriously, please tell me how, because I am trying to figure out how my opinion on something, which I do not do anything to promote or act on, could possibly hurt another person -- especially one I don't even know.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing -- when you accuse people who disagree with you of being "ignorant" and "obtuse" and lament about how you selflessly try to "enlighten" us, it makes you sound like a smug, sanctimonious ass. I don't need you to enlighten or educate me. My opinion is just as valid is yours. I don't go around railing about how everyone needs to think like me, so why do you? Why do you want to deny people the right to think their thoughts?
I'm also trying to figure out how Watermelon is being hypocritical. All they are saying, as far as I can tell, is that people have a right to their opinion without being attacked, verbally or physically. This is something I have said many, many times on this board, and yet all it earns me is enmity from the resident liberals. I truly believe that many, if not most, liberals just cannot accept the idea that smart, informed people can and do disagree with them. They feel that their opinions are the ONLY ones that should be allowed. No one can disagree with them, and if they do, they are "ignorant," "stupid," "fat old bitches," "racist," "hate-filled," and "deluded" -- all of which I have been called on this board by various posters because I DARE to have a different opinion than theirs. So, who are really the intolerant ones? The ones full of hate? The ones who don't "embrace diversity?" It's liberals, at least those who think they are more evolved than everyone else and that no one else's opinions have any merit.
Watermelon, Ice Angel, Syko, Sunny, Jen, and Black Cat -- good luck. A lot of CDaN people like to pat themselves on the back about how tolerant and supportive they are on these boards, but that attitude rarely extends to those who actually challenge them. When that happens, these open-minded, non-judgemental posters respond with name-calling, profanity, and venom. Like Jasmine did.
Their lifestyle, as u call it, is no one's business. It isnt for you to "accept" or not.
DeleteOk I re-read that post a couple of times and no where did she say she does or doesn't accept that lifestyle. She said "embrace" which is a completely different meaning.
DeleteTrans people are murdered at 12 times the rate of non-trans people. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that's sufficient reason to have an interest in affecting the social discourse about them.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I've calmed down a bit. Well, enough to respond to Texshan's last comment anyways.
ReplyDeleteTexshan said: "Because it sure seems like it. Watermelon and several others on this board (including me) do not actively support the LBGT lifestyle. But we aren't out there attacking LGBT people, we aren't promoting violence against them, we aren't doing ANYTHING to them. We just don't embrace their lifestyle. How is that hateful?"
You dont have to actively attack an LGBT person to hurt and marr their lifestyle. Many people who feel the way people like you do use their power to vote to keep LGBT community as 2nd class citizens. Very much in the same sense that black men were, that women have always been, and that interracial couples experienced only a handful of decades ago, people like you guys dont have to punch someone in the face to hurt them, all you have to do is either not vote for gay rights at all or vote against gay rights. I cant tell you the number of stories Ive either heard or experienced from friends accounts who are in happy, thriving lesbian or gay long term partnerships and one partner gets sick or one of their children does and the other partner has virtually NO rights in terms of say about the outcome at the hospital. Little things you take for granted as a straight person, LGBT people do not get. And that is why I am not going to try to see your side. Because your side curbs the freedom of people I know and love and admire. Simple as that.
Well isn't he just as cute as a button!
ReplyDeleteTexshan, first of all, you were the one who first brought up the whole liberal vs. conservative mess.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, let me just make a few changes to your last comment and see if you then get it (though I'm sure you won't)
" Watermelon and several others on this board (including me) do not actively support black people. But we aren't out there attacking black people, we aren't promoting violence against them, we aren't doing ANYTHING to them. We just don't embrace their lifestyle. How is that hateful? Seriously, please tell me how, because I am trying to figure out how my opinion on something, which I do not do anything to promote or act on, could possibly hurt another person -- especially one I don't even know."
The color of your skin, your sexuality...both things you have no control over. How do you not understand this? Why do you think it's ok to sit back and watch an entire group of people fight for equality while you say, "well I don't like their lifestyle so I'm ok with their rights getting stepped on."??
And you wonder why people on this board call you names.
Augusten Burroughs made a reference about Annette Benning being a wonderful mother in his book "Magical Thinking". For those of you who don't know, he also wrote "Running With Scissors", a memoir about his teen years. Anyhoo, he met Benning and Stephen (then a daughter) on the set of the film, and he mentions how warm and wonderful Annette was. I don't think that has changed a bloody bit. I'm a little unnerved by Enty's hinting otherwise. A child (and yes, Stephen was still a kid when he began this transformation), wouldn't have transitioned as well without SOME sort of support from a parent.
ReplyDeleteGood for him, just don't be like your dad, who is a womanizing bastard
ReplyDelete@Texashan I think the real point is that for many people who have witnessed the affect LGBT dicrimination can have on a person its hard to control ones emotions in these forums. As someone who has work with people during thier "coming of age" years, I have witnessed many different forms of coming out to the world. While I may accept the fact that you do have a right to your opinion. I am a human being, just like Cassidy and Jasmine, and your openness to your lack of LGBT acceptance is something I find disdainful.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think you weaken your stance by calling everyone that disagrees with you liberal. I think you will find that there are just as many self-righteous conservatives as liberals. By doing this you fall into the same category as those you criticize. But thats just the way I see it.
And you wonder why people on this board call you names.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, didn't any of you read Ice Angel's post?
You really think name calling is going to make Texshan more sympathetic to your POV?
Good Lord...
What a nice kid! So energetic and has such passion for life. I wish Stephen the best in everything he does :)
ReplyDeleteYes, Lioness70, I do believe that's exactly what I said!
ReplyDeleteOr you're just another one of those people who twists words into what you want them to mean.
I have been a long time reader of this blog. There have been a few posts that made me want to comment but in the end I decided it wasn't worth the time. Coincidentally, *every single one* of those comments has come from Texshan. But her comments in this post are what finally made me comment. Her POV will not change, just as my POV won't change. It's pointless to argue with her. I know this. I also know name calling can come out quickly when one realizes he is arguing with a brick wall. This doesn't mean she deserves to have names slung at her, just means I understand the frustration that causes it.
I think people who do not fight for lgbt rights don't have any loved ones that fit into that category. I would hope of they did, they would understand how sad it is to see people fight for their basic human rights. They fear what they don't understand. This was the same conversation had about black people not too long ago. It's. They say it's whining because they don't care. They have all their rights. They're not the ones fighting for them.
ReplyDeleteWhen good people do nothing, nothing good happens.
ReplyDeleteLove you too darlin
ReplyDeleteOh, OK, Jasmine. So now it's not enough that everyone support gay rights. Now everyone has to fight and vote for them, too. Otherwise we are "hurting" GLBT people. My voting my conscience is wrong. I am obliged to ignore my own beliefs and religious convictions and vote for something I don't believe in because you say so. Gotcha. Wonder why people who don't support gay marriage worry about a slippery slope? This is precisely why. Watermelon spoke about how "it never ends in equality," and he/she is right.
ReplyDeleteERAT, re: your attempt to pull a bait-and-switch -- don't try to compare apples and oranges. Black people were denied citizenship and the right to vote; they were enslaved; they were denied an education and only worth 3/5 of a white man. That's not the same as saying marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman, something that most (if not all) human life has believed for centuries. I have said several times on this board that I have no issue with gay civil partnerships with insurance, custody, and health decision rights -- everything typically reserved for a married couple. And I don't wonder why people on this board call me names. I know exactly why they do. I don't agree with them on some political issues, so I get called names. Simple. Unlike some people, I'm not going to get all butthurt because some random person on the Internet is mean to me and thinks differently than I do. To each his own.
Kaiser, I find your oppenness to your lack of tolerance for those who think differently than you disdainful. So I guess we're even.
I don't deny there are self-righteous conservatives. There are far too many of them. But I don't see the anger and vitriol toward those who disagree with them, the complete unwillingness to acknowledge someone's right to disagree, from conservatives nearly as much as I do from liberals. There is a lot of anger displayed by liberals, and a lot of self-righteousness displayed by conservatives. If everyone would just respect everyone else's right to think what they want, and acknowledge that NO ONE is perfect, the world would be a better place.
@texshan, lol. you represent TX well. espec w/ your liberal interpretaions of readers comments. Go on being angery, Speaking up for free speak for yourself...But God forbid others disagree w/ you or advocate for those less fortunate. Any fight for equal rights is clearly getting why outta hand and I need to go exert my superiorty over someone/ something. (no sarcasm intended)...oh and for a little more history of human sexuality read about the Romans. That is if your precious state hasn't sensored accessed to such salaciousness.
ReplyDeleteSo you think a transgender person is "less fortunate"?
DeleteAlso, I'm another who doesn't "embrace" gay marriage. I believe 100% in civil unions and having the same rights as married straight couples, but to me "marriage" is a sacred ordinance where I stand before God and promise to be loyal and true to my husband throughout all eternity and to raise our family in posterity so we can live together forever.
The tax/inheritance/medical stuff is just secondary and doesn't matter all that much to me.
Back to this video, I don't have time to watch it all, but he's a queer transman? What does that mean? I have never heard it. Also what is an XY female? CDAN = always teaching me new things.
Tippety tap, tippety tap tap
ReplyDelete*Jazz Hands*
It's not apples and oranges AT ALL. The only difference is that black people aren't able to hide their skin as gay people can hide their sexuality. You are fucked in the head if you think the same things wouldn't have happened to gay people if there was a physical trait to mark homosexuality, and even more fucked in the head if you think your precious conservative leaders wouldn't strip their rights away in a hot second if given the chance.
ReplyDeleteKaiser, you said it well. She is a remarkable specimen of a Texan.
Bringing it back to the topic, I love him. Hes so exuberant! I just did about 2 seconds of reading and its Warren who is not accepting his choices.
ReplyDeleteI waa bale to corroborate that he identifies as a gay man. I have saw a short biography of a man trans to a woman who then went on to have relations with other women. He identified as a lesbian.
That said, I have a love hate thing with the sweater, love his hair cut and find that I am questioning the paneling and decorating. I suspect the Beattys either live in an old house that needs some updating or he lives on his own.
"sensored"
ReplyDeletedoes that mean censored?
"I do not support re-defining an entire word that has meant one thing for all of human history just so some people's feelings won't be hurt."
ReplyDeleteI'm not entirely clear if the word in question here is "marriage" or not, but assuming it is, marriage has been constantly redefined throughout all of human history. People who use this argument really just mean THEIR definition of marriage hasn't been redefined in the ten to ninety (or so) years since they were old enough to understand what a marriage is.
"The problem is that it never stops with equality, it turns into special treatment and favoritism"
Hey, this is a crazy thought. Let's try giving them equal rights now and only worry about them trying to garner these extra special bonus rights when they actually, you know, do it. Why do we need to burn that bridge before we even get to it?
"we aren't out there attacking LGBT people, we aren't promoting violence against them, we aren't doing ANYTHING to them"
Imagine if everyone in this country was saying exactly this about black people fifty years ago (many did, of course.) Segregation would still be a thing, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I was following Stephen for a while on twitter earlier this year, and I find his enthusiasm and energy inspiring, but it makes me worry for him. The world is a harsh place and people who CARE, and who care SO MUCH don't fare well in it so often. I hope his support system is solid as a rock and won't fail him when he needs it. I can't imagine how he can keep being HIM at this rate and not burning out before he's thirty.
My bad Agent. I guess I'm just one of those children that got left behind. Must be personally frustrating for you.
ReplyDeletenah, I never get frustrated.
ReplyDeleteThe stench of the far left is the same stench as the far right.
No need to change your nic all the time, be yourself !
nic?
ReplyDeleteThat's it, when all else fails, attack a person's place of residence. That'll teach me!
ReplyDeleteAs I have said TIME AND TIME AGAIN, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. That's their right. What I object to is people being unwilling to accept the fact that educated, "good" people can disagree on things, and should be able to without being abused. Why is that so hard for you people to understand? Also, I've never said or inferred that I am superior to anyone else, and I'm not "angery."
Contrary to your belief, I am not a Republican, and I do not identify as a "conservative" on many issues. If you had paid attention AT ALL to my previous posts that so filled you with rage, you would know that I am a Libertarian, and one who thinks that 99.9% of ALL politicians are full of shit.
Honestly, you must be a special kind of stupid. You two aren't worth continuing this conversation for. So, I'm out. Just know that your behavior has reinforced my belief that many liberals are the most intolerant, hateful people alive.
Nor did I ever say my politcal affiliation. Just because I strongly advocate for something considered liberal you made your own assumptions. I'm not angry, just trying to help you see your own hypocrisy. You accuse commentors of doing to you what you are doing to them. Free speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism. And for the record I never said I was a tolerant human being. Another assumption on your part. My incessant need to respond to this thread does make me my own special kind of stupid, but I'm not angry about that either. May Peace be with you.
ReplyDelete"marriage" is a sacred ordinance where I stand before God and promise to be loyal and true to my husband throughout all eternity and to raise our family in posterity so we can live together forever
ReplyDeleteNo argument. But how in God's name would two men or two women being able to do the same make a damn bit of difference to what is in your heart at that moment? If it is as sacred as you say it is, then nothing can shake what is between you and your spouse and God.
XY=male.
ReplyDeleteXX=female.
XXY=intersex.
That is sex.
Gender is a social construct.
Identify as whatever gender you want... but you don't get to change sex. Science.
He's got ADHD, I'd giess. I've got it, too, and I talk about as fast as he does. I could understand every word he said. :)
ReplyDelete