Yesterday I saw a headline about some new information in the Jon Bent Ramsey case, but I didn't really pay attention to it. Then, last night with nothing better to do I decided to read it and I have to say that it is a fascinating piece of information. I know the guy is trying to sell a book, but James Kolar makes a very good argument that the killer of Jon bent was someone inside the house. How does he prove that? Apparently there was an intact spider web in the window supposedly used by the intruder. Pretty tough to get through a window without disturbing the spider web. Plus, there is a toy that Jon Benet had which matches the abrasions found on her body and that it, and not a stun gun is responsible for her injuries. I just don't know at this point what to think. The case is so old and unless her dad decides to share something he hasn't before then I don't know what we will ever find out.
That was literally an Encyclopedia Brown plot line.
ReplyDelete^
ReplyDeleteIt makes my skin crawl whatever happened that night. I hope one day justice is served.
ReplyDeleteExcept it only takes an hour for a spider to build a web.....
ReplyDeletejes7o
ReplyDeleteright, but I still think someone in that house did something.
I still think the little brother did it. I know he was young but stranger things have happened...
ReplyDeleteAshlea
ReplyDeleteI could totally see the parents trying to cover it up to protect him.
I truly hope (if the Ramseys did it) Mr. Ramsey will leave a note when he dies, so we'll know. Or tell someone on his deathbed. This has always bothered me.
ReplyDeleteI think that the family is innocent, that they have suffered immensely and that we'll never know what happened because the crime scene was so badly botched by the police. I think its time to leave the remaining family in peace.
ReplyDeleteand yes, as someone above said, it only takes an hour for a spider to spin a web. an intruder could have conceivably come in a different door.
Child molesters/murderers do not break into a house, take a child downstairs, rape and murder them. They remove the child from the home and commit the horrid crime elsewhere. Think about every child murder and abduction in the last ten years. I don't think that one actually happened in the house, the kids are always taken.
ReplyDeleteDenise: I think the parents knew and much like the Anthony's, protected their son instead of getting justice for their daughter. Given how young he was, I do not pass too much judgment on them.
If I'm recalling the case correctly, one of the weirdest things was the ransom note. I think they found that it was written in the house--so it's kinda hard to believe the person would stop in the middle of a kidnapping to write the note. Also, the amount of ransom money JUST HAPPENED to be the same amount that the dad recently received from a bonus. Personally, I think it was the mom. As if sexualizing your toddler for someone's idea of entertainment weren't abusive enough.
ReplyDeleteIf both the parents were cleared, it seems like it's likely the son might have done it. I doubt we'll ever know what happened but I wish the Dad would come forward if he has any information he didn't tell.
ReplyDeleteIf the son did it and the parents knew, I can't imagine the torn emotions they went through. I just can't.
ReplyDeleteIronically I'm watching the Doctor Who episode with Agatha Christie as I write this. In response to the spider web being made in 24 hrs, not sure this could happen in December. Not an expert, but I think they hibernate in winter or just die. This murder happened on Dec 25 in Denver.
ReplyDeleteGood point, Blankverse.
ReplyDeleteHoe young was the brother? Was semen found on her body?
ReplyDeleteAnd in regards to her brother, if the DNA of the blood and/or semen found was left by a relative they would surely focus on the family. Unless the Denver police were completely incompetent,(yes, I watch way too many detective shows)
ReplyDeleteI never followed this case, but Jes7o is right, spiders can rebuild webs ridiculously quickly.
ReplyDeleteLet's try to focus this energy on missing childrens cases where we can possibly save them.
ReplyDeleteI'd recommend reading The Cases That Haunt Us by John Douglas, an FBI profiler. He examines the evidence and develops a fascinating conclusion that points to an intruder. It completely changed my mind. Very logical and well-developed.
ReplyDeletenow I am going to spend an hour on wiki etc finding out the most recent theories... dammit!
ReplyDelete@stacey - John Douglas was hired by the Ramseys.
ReplyDeleteAshlea ...
ReplyDeleteRight. As a parent I would imagine going into a panic, a frenzy. They would have had to make a split second decision without really thinking about the bigger picture.
I never came to a definite conclusion myself (like I did with the OJ case, Casey Anthonty, etc) because there was so much misleading info...
ReplyDeletethe ransom note REALLY seems weird. And didn't they prove that Mom wrote it?
I haven't researched this to have an opinion, but I doubt we'll ever know. Covering up for a son seems as plausable to me.
We had a case here in Austin where the husband served 25 years for the death of his wife - and DNA proved that an intruder killed her. So, sometimes it really is an outsider. I've had to stop jumping to conclusions in this day and age...
i read the case and saw a dateline episode years ago. the lead detectvive on the case was fired because he believed that it was an intruder and not the family. i believe it was an intruder. and it was already ruled out that the brother absolutely did not do it.
ReplyDeleteThe undisturbed spider web is nothing new. I used to follow this case quite extensively online in forums. The ransom note is the one thing that keeps me from thinking 'intruder'. The forensic analysis of the language of the text (not handwriting) by Dr. Hodges is very interesting.
ReplyDeleteI have always claimed that it was the brother who did it. On the 911 tape, there was something to the effect that the Mom tried to "hush" the son in the background and say he wasn't there or awake. Something to that effect. It was brought up at some point by those trying to prove that they covered it up or know who did it. I forget how old the brother was at the time, but I could see him luring the girl to the basement and then trying some sexual act. Nervous at the attempt/result, he strangles her. Scared, he alerts the parents who have no choice but help cover it up so that the son does not get taken away. Might explain why the baby blanket she slept with was carefully placed over her body to cover her. Also, it was the father who ulimetly found her...it just so happens. It was reported by others at the scene that it was weird to them how he was holding the child away from his body as he carried her throughout the house and upstairs to where everyone was gathered. Someone had noted that if it had been them, regardless of the condition of the body, they would have embraced the child in a hug and kept her close to them. They wouldn't have carried her like a stiff board with skunk scent on it. I'm just saying. You would think with today's technology, there would be more concrete proof/answers to what happened that night.
ReplyDeletemy aunt teaches at a forensic pathology school and has worked with some of the people who were involved with case. She told me she's seen some of the evidence photos and there were clear evidence of not only rape but past molestation. She believed with her heart and soul that the parents were involved - if not directly in the murder then in the cover up.
ReplyDeleteHer brother was nine years old at the time, he was 3 years older than her.
ReplyDelete@Land Manatee:
ReplyDeleteThe dad carried her body around the house? I never heard that before. Jesus christ, who does something like that? Its just so morbid to me.
Joyce Carol Oates is one of my favorite authors and she wrote a book inspired/based on this called, "My Sister, My Love." It's such a sad story (in real life and the book as well) and my heart breaks for that sweet, innonect little girl. She lived such a tragic, short life here on Earth.
ReplyDeleteI have a very hard time believing the brother did anything. I just can't. But I've always thought it was one of the parents. The note, the father finding her and carrying her (excuses any found clues), the ransom and again, the note.
ReplyDeleteNow, when I see ads for child beauty pageants, it makes me ill. I get sick at the sight of any sexualized child and really detested seeing Suri dressed in heels.
"They wouldn't have carried her like a stiff board with skunk scent on it. I'm just saying."
ReplyDeleteWhen he emerged with her body from the hiding hole, stiff and at arm's length, he had the temerity to say (as I recall), "Is she dead?"
I don't think he carried her around the house, as in, all over. I think he carried her up from the so-called 'wine cellar' in the basement, and put her under the tree.
I saw a special on this and I recall that the DNA evidenced proved that it was not a relative that assaulted her.
ReplyDeleteI think the DNA evidence was so degraded as to be essentially worthless. Interesting site:
ReplyDeletehttp://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682483/Is%20This%20a%20DNA%20Case
Everything I've seen (and I do have a background in "true crime") points to an intruder, but the spider web info (which I'd heard before) doesn't convince me that it was an "insider." The worst part of it all is how badly the inexperienced cops handled the evidence.
ReplyDeleteWhen he emerged with her body from the hiding hole, stiff and at arm's length, he had the temerity to say (as I recall), "Is she dead?"
ReplyDeleteWow. Unbelievable. My heart breaks for this kid. She obviously suffered in her final moments, as well as for most of her life. It pisses me off that justice will probably never be served for her.
On an interesting note...the father and older brother Burke, live thousands of miles away. The father in Michigan and the son in Georgia. Kind of strange.. Is there tension between these two and if so why?
Whatever happened to that guy who, a few years ago, claimed he did it and got all the media attention for about a week or so?
ReplyDeleteJohn Mark Karr, wasn't it?
I believe there was an initial search of the house by police and they did not find the girl. Makes me wonder if she may have been reported missing at first by the family. Can't remember. However, when the father and a 2nd person (may have been a police officer or a friend) search the house, the father discovered her. He picked her up and didn't carry her around the house. Just from the basement to the floor (I think it was a 3 story house) in the house where everyone was gathered (family & police). However, he carried her the whole time away from his person, with his arms extended fully out. As if she were full of maggots and drenched in a foul smell. Now, I can understand rigamortis setting in, but regardless of her condition, if I had found the child I had been searching for, I would think my parental instinct would have me hug her close to me. And as others have stated, the note is very suspicious as is the 911 call and just the parents overall demeanour. I also thought the DNA was inconclusive.
ReplyDeletei've always wondered about John's OLDER son from his first marriage who I believe was in the house?
ReplyDeleteBaka, there is no reason we need to forget this little girl. She deserves to be remember, just like every child taken does. I don't think there is a lot of energy in this thread that's taking away from other searches. I can't say I would be looking if I wasn't on this website.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading somewhere years ago that her stepbrother did it (he was molesting her for some time) and the parents have tried to cover this up.
ReplyDeleteI can't remember what the ransom not said. Why were they trying to get money from the Ramsey's if they had already killed Jon Benet, losing their leverage.
ReplyDeleteActually, I found I website that goes over the note, line by line.
http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/
Steve Thomas wrote an excellent book on this case. The Ramsey's privilege is the reason why no one has been prosecuted for this crime. In the book, Burke was questioned by the police. He testified that both parents were up and about in the middle of the night.
ReplyDeleteIt would make sense if the brother did it and the parents tried to cover it up with the fake note, but didn't the police prove conclusively that he wasn't in the house that night?
ReplyDeleteFrom the very beginning I thought her brother Burke did it. I know he was only 9 at the time, and supposedly a frail kid. But I think he was jealous of all the attention she got--mother spent all her time with JonBenet at pageants and getting her ready for them. And he was probably sexually frustrated by her grown up "sexual" stage persona.
ReplyDeleteSo... a 9 yr old kid is capable of doing ALL of what happened to Jon Benet? I don't get it..
ReplyDeleteNever knew there was an older half brother that could have been involved. THAT seems alot more likely! Explains why DNA may not have matched the victim's or rest of the family's ("entirely")
I don't believe an intruder did this. As someone said in the comments earlier, these freaks don't break into someone's house, rape a girl, kill her and leave her there. They abduct her and take her elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteAlso, about the note. It was written on a yellow pad of paper, which was tested and found that the killer wrote two drafts of the note. Who takes the time to write two drafts of a "ransom" note if they've already killed the child, and the family is sleeping upstairs and could come down at any minute?
This spiderweb thing really seals the deal for me. I think it was the brother or stepbrother, and the parents covered it up.
Someone in the house did it. The earlier poster is correct. People don't break into a house, go upstairs to get the child, and then take them to the basement to molest and kill them.
ReplyDeleteIt makes zero sense. Get the child and get out? Yes. But never in the house...unless they kill the entire family or something like that.
Molesters want privacy and time with their victims.
I usually stay pretty quiet, but this got to me. I've read through comment after comment stating how Enty should stop with the "horrific blinds" and then I get to this one and it's the speculation that this could be the child Burke (who was 9yrs old at the time)
ReplyDeleteMy reasons for not wanting to even consider a child a suspect:
I find it a little bit coincidental that Ramsey's older daughter from a previous marriage named Elizabeth died in an suspicious car accident shortly after recalling instances of past abuse during therapy that were strikingly similar to what JonBenet described in front of teachers and members of her church just two weeks before her untimely death? The Medical examiners stated that JonBenet had evidence of long term abuse, not a one time thing. 33 trips to her pediatrician in the 3trs prior to her death for "yeast infections".
Ransom note was an 82% match to Patty's handwriting
The 3rd voice on the 911 tape that was told "We're not speaking to you" by the Ramsey's and their refusal to name who it was.
It gets creepier the more you research, but in no way possible, do I think we should speculate that a child could do the the heinous things that were done to that child. Research the case...it wasn't a child.
Whisper, agreed 100%.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the brother did it- he was 9! If he "molested" her in any way, it could have only been imitative of something he'd seen done to her or had done to himself- I doubt he had any sexual urges himself at that age, towards his sister or anyone else. I never heard about the older half brother being around though- that would have been a real possibility, if true. As to the ransom note, I think I remember that it came from a yellow legal pad that was later found in the house, so it was definitely written there. A handwriting analysis eliminated John Ramsey as the writer of the note, but didn't eliminate Patty. That's why people think she wrote it. And the amount mentioned was not what John had RECEIVED as a bonus- he owned the company. It was the amount of the Christmas bonus he had given all his employees that year.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe the family's timeline, it goes something like this- they wake up and find the ransom note. Search the house, can't find Jon-Benet. Call 911. Cops arrive, also search the house and can't find her, tons of people (family, friends, cops, etc.) are milling about the house when John suddenly remembers no one checked the cellar, He and a friend go down there without telling anyone, and emerge with her body. This all happened in a matter of hours, she wasn't down there long. So I think "Is she dead?" is a legitimate question for him to be asking, but I don't get the holding her away from him like she stank or something. Odd.
My take- I don't think the brother or the parents killed her, and I think they did truly mourn her. But I think her parents know exactly what happened to her, and they decided for whatever reason that keeping that a secret was more important than bringing her killer to justice.
"So I think "Is she dead?" is a legitimate question for him to be asking, but I don't get the holding her away from him like she stank or something."
ReplyDeleteAt the risk of sounding crude, if she hadn't been as stiff as a plank in his outstretched arms, it might have been legit.
When John went down there with his friend... according to the friend, John bee-lined for the so-called "wine cellar."
I'm fairly sure the older half-brother was out of state or otherwise eliminated as a suspect. I thought what he said when asked what should happen to the killer if caught was interesting--I can't find the quote now, but it was something like 'forgiveness'.
The spider web is not new information. It doesn't take long for a spider to make a web, but maybe this one looked old or something? Like dried out moths already encased in it? I do not believe this case will ever be "solved." Someone may confess (but why at this point?) but no one will otherwise figure it out to a provable conclusion. Sad.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe the 9 yr. old did it. Spiders, well last winter I was home alone and had to go in the basement and there big as life was a large wolf spider. I live in a cold, cold state in winter. My neighbor found a spider in her washing machine around New Year's my daughter had to run over to kill it. I have a good friend who lives 3 miles from me and his son lives in Georgia. I believe the police completely screwed up in this case. I don't think we will ever know the truth.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIf you really want to know the truth visit jonbenetlives.com
ReplyDeleteJon Benet murder mystery theater? Tacky.
ReplyDeleteI don't know who did it- but it was someone in the house, and the parents covered it up.
ReplyDeleteOne of the parents did it, the other is complicit in the cover-up.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I read The Cases That Haunt Us by John Douglas, but he didn't convince me. He lost credibility on this case by being paid by the Ramseys and then coincidentally concluding they didn't do it.
Not only did John Ramsey pick her up, he held her away from his body, Not in a comforting way, a father would who had just found his dead daughter.
ReplyDeleteI did follow this case closely, and I too believe someone in the house did it.
Also, the spider web was thick, covered in dust, that doesn't happen that quick overnight, in December.
Sharon Percy was killed in her parents home in 1969. Her father was a US senator and the whole family was in the house sleeping. Someone broke in raped and murdered her in her bed. No one heard anything, never been solved. It does happen that kids/adults are killed in their own homes while the rest of the family is there. We live in a very violent world.
ReplyDeleteSorry Valerie Percy was killed in 1966. Sometimes hard to remember names and dates.
ReplyDeleteThe Ramsey's have always LOOKED guilty, if not for the crime itself, but for covering for someone else.
ReplyDeleteYour child is killed and initially you refuse to be interviewed by the police???
And then when they finally agreed to be interviewed they set conditions for the interview,and refused to be interviewed separately.
Come on....GUILTY
count me among the 'brother did it' crowd.
ReplyDeleteWhen did Jon Benet talk about her abuse in church? 33 yeast infections and no one called DHR? I never heard of the older daughter talking to a therapist... How do we know this? Therapy files are confidential. Also, who thinks the car accident was 'suspicious?' the police? Ive never heard these details before. Please fill me in.
ReplyDeleteAlso what happened to both the brothers? If either is a sex offender he's not going to be able to control that urge.
The police botched this case up from the start. We will never know unless someone makes a confession with proof to back it up.
ReplyDeleteSeeing there has been abductions right out of the family home with the family there over the last few years. I do think it was a stranger and the DNA found in jon benets underwear is the real killer. Maybe the DNA database will have a hit and we will have an answer one day.
Or 132 years from now like Lizzie Borden.
I didn't know about a stepbrother. How old?
ReplyDeleteJon Benet would be a young woman in her early 20's now. RIP
Has it been 132 years already?
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was the brother. I do, however, think the family knows who did it. With all of the sexual exploitation we read on here, I wouldn't be surprised if her long-term abuse (as some evidence suggests) was part of the "establishment" using her for sick ways, and she died during this abuse. It's always seemed like a big coverup to me.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-661569.html
ReplyDeleteIf I recall correctly didn't the parents have a party the evening before? The ransom note and the way the Ramseys set terms for being interviewed really set off all those inner detective alarms. I would believe that they were covering for one of their rich and powerful friends before pointing my finger at a 9 year old.
ReplyDeleteThere's an answer to the Lizzie Borden case?
ReplyDeleteRecently in Oklahoma there was an incident where a little girl, about 4, was raped in her own bedroom at night, in a mobile home. The stepfather, and the little girl's mother were home asleep. At first the stepfather was suspected, but DNA has ruled him out and the person-of-interest is a resident of the trailer park who has fled the area. The family dog was murdered so it wouldn't alert anyone. These incidents, surprisingly, do happen to kids, at their homes.
Another recent incident was in Texas. On a farm, during a party, the owner and father, heard his daughter screaming. He ran looking and found her behind an outbuilding being raped by someone the father knew. I don't recall if it was a family friend or just an acquaintance, but the father killed him with his bare hands, right there. Charges were not filed.
It seems crazy that a predator would attack a child right at their home with their family nearby, but these aren't people who are in their right minds; logic doesn't always dictate.
Brenda L, the older brother would still be her brother, not a step. John had three children from his first marriage. He has also lost another daughter to a car accident.
ReplyDeleteAs for the spider web, if you look at the film of it, it is clearly on the inside window that is swung open horizontally, not in the open window where someone could enter. It is a non clue. I personally do not believe the Ramsey's had anything to do with the murder.