With all the organic food on the shelves these days, do you think it is all really organic? Does it work? Is there a difference between mass market organic and a farmers market?
I shop at both Whole Foods and Walmart. I buy some organic food at Whole Foods, hoping that they really police what they sell in their stores. But then, they can't control the toxins in the soil where the food is grown. So who the hell knows for sure what we eat.
Who knows. I read an interesting article a while ago that discussed this topic exactly. Due to the fact that there is no regulatory body that oversees organic produce, there really is no way to truly know.
Anyone can say there food is organic, and there really is no way to disprove that.
Some organic produce, I swear, tastes better. But who knows - maybe we're fooled by the packaging and marketing.
Until some radical future discovery tells me differently, my mantra is cutting out processed foods and embracing all-scratch cooking. I think it's the only way to be healthy and well-fed.
parissucksliterally - best post I've ever seen on this subject. My feelings exactly. If we followed everything they said we'd never leave the house except to strip the bark off of trees since that's probably the only thing that's safe. (unless animals have pooped on it or something - you can't win!) Just use common sense!
I am a soy-allergic vegetarian and I buy and eat as organically and ethicially as i can afford. No trendy shopping just good, local, in season fruits and veggies, beans and grains. I buy humane local eggs and organic dairy. I shop the farmer's markets, a couple of locally owned markets and Trader Joe's and Costo (great organics). We've been doing this 10 years.
Does is help? Yes, my hubster has heart disease. He's has no cholesterol issues and his surgeon told him to stick with what he is doing for the rest of his life.
I have an auto-immune diagnosis of RA but I refuse to use drugs just yet. I manage with diet adding natural anti-inflammatory foods.
I did miss seafood and beef for a while and enjoy watching cooking shows but I wouldn't go back now.
Coming from a large farming community (in Western Kansas), I can say that right now there is very little difference between organic and non-organic. It's just a word that makes some people feel better about what they're putting into their mouths.
parissucksliterally, you have me hysterically laughing at my desk. I am around people all day who brag about their organic meals and how much they pay for everything. I eat non-organic chocolate and drink non-organic wine. I'm happy.
I buy my produce from my local farm, I'm more of a believer in local is better. I can tell you there are Grades of produce (a, b, c) set by grocery buyers who select produce from the source. I can also tell you Walmart does not get the a produce. Nor do they get the a meat. Pick your local butcher, grocer, farm or whole foods over Walmart.
It is pretty difficult to get that USDA Organic stamp if you are a small farm that is really truly trying to be "back to the earth". Swing enough money in front of the USDA and FDA (big business/ factory farms) and you got yourself a stamp.
Farmers markets and direct from small family owned farms is the best way to go if possible.
I think organic is TOTAL bullshit. And I live amongst lifelong farmers and I've worked on farms. Seriously. Jersey ain't called the Garden State for nothin'.
I do wholeheartedly buy local produce whenever available. Jersey tomatoes, blueberries and corn are amazingly delish. So happy the season is coming upon us.
I totally think "organic" is a word used to jack up the prices on food, which honestly pisses me off greatly. Thanks, U.S. government for always looking out for the consumer. Not. Our country would rather focus on the high school shenanigans of our presidential candidates and the endless bickering between the members of Congress instead of ACTUALLY helping the common people of our country.
I buy organic, and am happy doing it. I think it is much better for you nutritionally and for less pesticides in your diet. I also try to buy local as often as possible, it's fresher and more nutrient rich.
I'm more of a fan of local, simple (fewer ingredients) and fresh. I do try to buy products that are either organic or natural, or contain such ingredients, if available. Personally I have always had digestive issues and I do MUCH better on organic and fresh foods. And to me (and my family) organic and/or very fresh tastes way, way better.
no. i question all that stuff now. yesterday it occured to me that the microwave cover i bought might well be made of bpa's. what can you trust now? grow your own i guess.
I buy my stuff at Trader Joe's and whatever I can't find there, I get at Whole Foods if I can afford it.
I don't trust anything the USDA says. I'll trust an organic label if it's something other than the USDA. It's run by the same companies it's supposed to be policing. Big fucking surprise.
I do try to buy local produce - in south Florida it's a lot easier to find than in other areas. Local produce seems to taste better but perhaps it's just in my mind.
I am a non-organic farmer with a non-organic farmstand who, like most small farmers, must work at a full-time job to make ends meet. It just so happens my full-time job is for an organic distributor, so I know A LOT about this subject. It is very complicated for a producer/farmer to become Certified Organic. It is not a designation that comes easily or cheaply. Any retail store that is selling organic goods is beholden by law to ensure they are Certified. At a farmer's market anyone can write "organic" on their sign and charge a higher price for the goods. There is no real oversight there. I would trust a bonafide store's organic well ahead of a farmer's market. That said, I buy local. Organic is more than I can afford. There was a recent study by Cornell Cooperative to see what the cost to grow my farm's crop would be conventionally vs. organically. The organic version was SEVEN times the cost of growing organically. This is why organic is more expensive. I don't know if organic is better than conventional. I don't really care. Life is short - let's eat what we want.
I try to buy local organic foods not just for my health, but for the environment. there is a reason there is a dead zone in the gulf of Mexico, as the Mississippi river, which drains practically all of americas heartland, ends there. All the excess nitrogen causes all sorts of environmental problems in the gulf, including blue baby syndrome.
But back to the original question. I was under the impression that there is a blg difference is quality of livestock life between large scale organic dairies (like horizon) and small scale. Large scale dairies having much less pasture time. Not sure how produce is.
I also try to grow as much as my own food myself to avoid this mess all together.
Here is my food rant of the day - I HATE that my poultry and meat can have water injected in it. I have to pay for the weight and it ruins the consistency. Even some of the organic stuff has 15% chicken broth in it. It is a truly buyer beware.
I grow my own tomatoes, herbs, squash and cucumbers. The rest I, like Susan, buy from local farmers here in Jersey (Sussex County has the best). Off season, I only buy frozen. Organic? probably not unless I plan to eat the skin.
@luckylass - An organic dairy does not require ANY pasture time for the cattle. They can just be fed on organic feed all day. The only way to be sure the cows you are getting your milk from are pastured is to buy milk that says expressly that the cattle are grass-fed, pastured.
just stay away from the cloned meat and dairy products. veggies, I know of farms given the organic go ahead (certification), and yet they were directly under a airport flightpath, so really, how "organic" could the veggies be? (that's one example, i was in the biz a few years ago and heard a lot)
I go to the St Lawrence Market for fresh produce and meat. Grocery store for the rest. I probably wouldn't buy grocery store produce unless the Market was closed and I was in a pinch.
I used to buy everything organic until I found out the label is just a way for companies to make more money. I still buy organic eggs, not for my health, but because the chickens are treated humanely and fed properly. Cage free is cheaper, but doesn't mean they get to live outside and feel grass under their feet. They still live in squalor and never see the sun. Not trying to preach, idk if that's how it's coming across, it's just what I personally do.
There are studies that do show organic produce is much higher in nutritional value. And no thank you to pesticides.
I stay away from The Dirty Dozen, those I'll pay more for organic. I try to buy local, and I also only purchase my meat in bulk from a farmer here, the cows are grass fed. For the small farmers, produce and meat, they can't afford to go through the process of getting certification.
Unfortunately any chicken products that declare themselves to be free-range are full of shit. That only means the door to the barn is open for a certain part of the day, but the poor chickens are so crowded they can't even get out.
I stay the hell away from Monsanto products, they and the Koch Bros are Evil.
Funny you mention this. Last night I was in a produce store and saw organic grape tomatoes from Mexico. I actually asked aloud (and I was by myself) how we could possible know that.
But you know what? I bought the organic ones. Somehow I feel as if I'm judged for not buying the organic. It's stupid but for whatever reason, I care what strangers think.
That said, I do notice a huge taste difference between fresh farm eggs (or the more expensive Omega-3 eggs) and the cheap cartons. Not in a cake but boiled, huge difference.
Organic = better. Local - even better still, even if it's IPM, I'll buy it. Why? to support my local farmer. I do a work share for my local CSA which just got their organic certification, and like farmgirl said, it ain't easy or cheap, and it's a hell of a lot of paperwork, and tons of rules and regs.
However, when it comes to livestock, I buy LOCAL. 4H kid raised stuff. You know, cows/chicks/pigs that have only had one bad day. Just because livestock says "Organic" doesn't mean it was humanely raised. All it means is it was fed organic feed.
And yes "free range" is a joke. All that means is "access" to the outside for a certain amt of time of the day (and it ain't much) and usually the door that opens is too small for anything to get through. Look for "pasture raised" on the label.
Since my family's diet is mostly organic (yeah occasionally we succumb to fast food) we basically don't get ill, or if you do, it's a 2 day cold instead of a 5 day one, and I for one feel a lot better - have more energy, blah blah, blah.
Support your local farmer, but more importantly, KNOW your local farmer. They can say the stuff they get is local, but they sure as hell aren't gonna have cantelopes in May in MD you know? Find a good local farmer, stick with them - the produce is fresh and was prolly picked that morning, not 2 weeks ago and shipped from CA with a nutritional value of zilch. Talk to them - find out where they buy their meat, ask around. You'd be surprised at the resources available to you.
Buying only organic gets expensive, unfortunately, but I do try my best to buy the "dirty dozen" organic. Where I live, buying local is also often a lot more expensive (which doesn't make sense to me at all). I buy eggs that specifically say grainfed and outdoors. "Free range" only means they were not in cages, it's still quite possible that those hens never see sunlight. Egg yolk should be a deep, orange colour, not that pale yellow slime you get with Walmart eggs.
I once bought a bag of tomatoes from Walmart. The bag had 4 tomatoes. I used three and forgot about the fourth. I found it in the back of my fridge about 5 weeks later - still as plump and red as the day I bought it. I haven't bought Walmart produce since - I don't care how cheap it is. And their ground beef is terrifying.
I have an SIL who is as obnoxious as hell about organic food. I mean great, follow your inclinations, but don't drive other people crazy over it. I get the biggest kick out of while she preaches organic, she is a huge partier every weekend and she is a beautician so she has her hands in chemicals all day. Personally I'd be more worried about drinking and the constant exposure to hair chemicals. She isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Especially when she is crouched over complaining about pancreatitis after some hammerfisted drinking.
Is it really organic? There are actual standards for what can be call ORGANIC, unlike the word NATURAL - big difference. So, organic actually IS organic.
Does is work? Well, it works in that you don't eat pesticides that have been put on the food, so it works.
I strongly recommend Googling "The Dirty Dozen" - make sure you buy those fruits and veggies organic. Wash the rest. Always better than not eating them!
I agree with luckylass. I hate how meat is injected with water and sodium solution. I've noticed that in the pork tenderloins, and how it the sodium content differs between them. I have a small vegetable and herb garden, and I shop local farmer's markets.
I've read somewhere (a few somewheres) that mass market is not organic, I tend to avoid anything from the big biz companies. I buy local and organic when I can (shit's expensive) because with my child coming through cancer treatment and needing the very best to recover and heal as well as my autoimmune nightmares I have a far better quality of life since switching over to eating simple and organic whole foods-no wheat, soy, very limited sugar and nothing processed. Some of us are just wicked sensitive to the chemicals,etc out there in our food supply, there are a lot of times I wish I wasn't and could just not give a shit about what or how I eat.
and oh yeah, I grow my own non GMO veggies,what I can't grow I buy from a local farm, buy eggs from my neighbor and spend the hell of August in the kitchen canning and "putting up" what I can to save on $$ through the winter. Plus I also eat in season which helps.
I have so much to say on this subject that I won't say anything at all! I can't not sound preachy about it all because this subject makes my blood boil. I will say that most people are severely under-educated about the food they consume.
Here in New Zealand, in order to obtain organic status with meat, you don't give the animals antibiotics. So if a dairy cow has mastitis, you treat it homeopathically instead of with penicillin. I don't buy organic meat and dairy because of ethical reasons. I think it is cruel to withhold treatment simply for the label of organic. A shot of penicillin will have the cow feeling more comfortable and less painful in 24 hours than a homeopathic remedy that will take much longer to provide the same relief, if it does at all. Also, any cow that's on Ab does not have their milk go into the vat, so that milk is not sent for human consumption. To withhold proven treatment that gives a production animal faster recovery simply for a label is unethical and cruel in my opinion. Free range chicken eggs, I have no problem with and will support free range products. As for grass fed, NZ cows are all grass fed. While it does produce better tasting meat, when there is the usual winter grass deficit, it's so hard to see so many thin cows in poor body condition while pregnant (winter here is June-August and most cows calve in August). The main reason for feeding mostly grass? It's cheaper.
Surely, in NZ like in the US they feed them hay in the winter? They store all during harvest season to feed the cows during the winter that are grass fed here, they don't just let them starve.
They will feed them silage, forage, and concentrates but not really hay. It rains so much here in the winter that all the nutrients from the hay are leached out into the ground. Cows are kept outdoors all the time. But sometimes farmers do not feed enough to meet the metabolic needs for pregnancy and they get thin.
Organic is this years lo-carb. I'm pretty sure when Whole Foods imports "organic frozen mixed vegetables" from China that it's all pure bullshit. I do however buy from the farmers mkt because I want to support smaller growers. And fresh eggs outta the chickens butt taste dramtically different from high production farms. Seriously.
A little different from "organic" versus "nonorganic" argument, I have made an effort to eat "real food" versus "processed food." Real food is the stuff you find mostly on the outer edges of your grocery stores. Processed food includes food made in laboratories. My main reason for doing this is because I find "real" food more satisfying. I never really feel full after a meal of processed food.
I will say, though, thinking about this topic, that I'm all about fresh, locally grown, organic goodness. We grow tomatoes, potatoes, onions, peppers, cucumbers, etc., and have chickens for eggs (not meat chickens).
However, last summer made me appreciate our industrial food complex a little more. We had a hell of a hot, dry summer, and if we really had to just eat what we grew, it would have been potatoes, onions, and eggs, period. We would have been some grumpy-ass farmers. So, I try to keep that in mind. We've got a lot of folks to feed in this wide world!
I am going to preface my comments by saying I am a chemist by education and a former member of the American Chemical Society. I have been out of chemistry and in IT for more than 30 years.
There are at least two questions being mixed here.
Question 1: Local Farmers Market vs. non local food. This is a question of freshness and the winner is probably local farmstead followed by frozen followed by non local fresh.
Question 2: Organic vs Conventional is a flawed question because at the very least you need to add to the question integrated pest management. IPM uses organic methods and techniques as the front line resorting to insecticides and herbicides as a last resort.
I come down in favor of IPM; too many of the materials used in conventional farming are long lived in the environment.
People who have a taste preference for organic over conventional need to take a closer look. Have you blind tasted a fruit or vegetable of the same variety, grown in close proximity, and picked at the same time? If you have not made that comparison you cannot say you have a preference for organic. Unfortunately over the last 60 years many farmers shifted their planting to varieties that packed and traveled well as the expense of taste. The Red Delicious apple is the perfect example of this.
There is not good science supporting organics or non GMA food. The clamor for them reflects poor understanding of science in society.
I also buy local when I can. I raise chickens for eggs. I will NEVER go back to store bought eggs after eating these. Try to find a local egg farmer if you can. It's well worth the time and money.
My ILs have a small farm with a large garden. My husband grows strawberries. I just made jam today. Delicious. Blueberry season is here in a month. I pick 'em right off the bush, and whatever I don't eat or cook, I freeze.
Hard to believe, but yep, Jersey WAS the Garden State long before it became known for Sopranos, Housewives and Snooki. ;)
I buy as local as I can, when I can, and organic when I can afford it. I don't believe, though, that all the things labelled organic are. Eggs from local farms, yes! I grew up with a huge garden, and that's the one thing I truly miss now that I live in an apartment building.
Nothing like a little travel to remind you what real food is! I eat organic because it fills me faster and lasts longer. Poor countries export fruits and veggies from the corporate farms that are laden with chemicals and genetically modified. What is grown at home is amazing, and delicious. Chickens roam the streets. Fish are plentiful in the ocean. I had been in the states so long I honestly forgot what color fruit really is!
I'm more interested in local than organic, really. That's one difference between organic obsession and doing CSAs & farmers' markets (which I do)...I'm supporting my neighbors, basically, knowing where my food comes from and who's benefiting, blah blah blah.
And I try not to eat super processed food in general but I was raised on it so sometimes it comforts me.
Whole Food, Trader Joe's and Costco.....the dog treats from TJ's because they're not from China.... My meat and Chicken either Whole Food or Costcø because they label honestly....no pink slime in my burgers... I do my best but you never really know...
NZ practices aside, in the US, organically raised animals do not use prophylactic antibiotics or hormones like in conventional animals (except chickens which are not allowed to be given hormones). Antibiotics are added to most conventional feed because it promotes faster/larger growth and meat production. Organic farmers DO treat with antibiotics if needed but the animals must then be sold as conventional meat.
When you buy organic meat, the animals generally are treated much better since factory farm conditions create an atmosphere that encourages the spread of disease (another reason factory farms use prophylactic antibiotics). Just as diseases spread more easily/rapidly amongst people in densely packed cities, so too do diseases spread amongst animals in densely packed farm environments.
As a shoutout to Whole Foods, which started as a tiny little bulk/health food store in Austin, TX (where I used to shop long ago), they inspect all of their suppliers personally and make sure those suppliers adhere to standards that WF has implemented (for example, in Kansas City, we have a local dairy that makes fantastic eggnog [WF carries their milk, which is not organic but rBGH-free and humanely produced], the eggnog had a flavor additive which WF does not allow so they insisted it be reformulated to adhere to WF standards...which it was).
Their meat sources are inspected and given animal welfare ratings from 1-4 with 4 being standard humane conditions and 1 being animal nirvana. They only carry fish that are sustainably harvested (as certified by an outside organization) and try to direct you to better choices that can substitute for overfished species.
I am not employed by WF(nor have I ever been) and Whole Foods is certainly expensive, but I do feel that even as they have grown they have attempted to retain their values that they had at the beginning.
That said, I grow a few things, buy local when I know it is humanely/sustainably produced and shop at places like WF otherwise. Like most people, I do the best I can, but outside of insisting that my meat come from humane sources (and not eating pork at all), I'm not a Nazi about it or anything. I can go to someone's house and eat normally...although I'll probably skip the meat, but I won't lecture.
The only time I was absolutely militant was when my daughter was very young...until she went to school probably 90% or better of what she ate and drank came from certified organic sources-- that more than anytime was when Whole Foods was a Godsend since it was the only place (at the time) you could get organic baby food.
I would love to say that I buy local and organic, but my current economic status usually translates my food preferences into what's cheapest. I don't sweat it too much -- there is enough for me to worry about. If I could afford more than $30 a week for groceries, I would probably pay more attention.
If the general public only knew what was being sprayed on their produce, knew what was seeping into the ground, and realized what children who live nearby are inhaling, it might change a lot of the way people think.
Living in a small farming community (my family are farmers, I will inherit the farms in the next few years) I see it first hand and see the struggle that these farmers endure. The bigger bucks are on the CAFOS that are popping in rural communities, threatening their entire livelihood. I've had 2 pop up on each side of my beautiful family farm house where I live with my two girls and have fought a 3rd one and won. It really is a scary venture.
Luckily, my family (for the time) seems to be on the same page of where we want our farms to go. We have switched to no-till farming, no roundup spraying. But, it provides less produce when doing it this way then the big farms that have thousands of acres.
I've read so many books/articles on the subject, I don't know what to believe anymore. One thing that always stood out to me was how important it was, particularly, to buy organic meat/dairy, so that is what I focus on in terms of shopping organic. I try to buy local when I can and am very lucky to live in an area with a surplus of farmers markets, CSA's and wonderful, fresh food.
I shop at both Whole Foods and Walmart. I buy some organic food at Whole Foods, hoping that they really police what they sell in their stores. But then, they can't control the toxins in the soil where the food is grown. So who the hell knows for sure what we eat.
ReplyDeleteWho knows. I read an interesting article a while ago that discussed this topic exactly. Due to the fact that there is no regulatory body that oversees organic produce, there really is no way to truly know.
ReplyDeleteAnyone can say there food is organic, and there really is no way to disprove that.
Pretty sure that anyone can claim that their product is organic, but there are fairly strict rules for obtaining a USDA Organic seal on the packaging.
ReplyDeleteI eat whatever the fuck I want, and sit out in the sun. None of us are getting out of here alive, so I am not going to obsess.
ReplyDeleteespecially when "they" change their minds every 6 fucking months what is good for you.
I buy organic produce mostly because it tastes better & more flavorful.
ReplyDeleteSome organic produce, I swear, tastes better. But who knows - maybe we're fooled by the packaging and marketing.
ReplyDeleteUntil some radical future discovery tells me differently, my mantra is cutting out processed foods and embracing all-scratch cooking. I think it's the only way to be healthy and well-fed.
Unless my "normal" eggs are coming out of a bionic chicken I just buy what I want.
ReplyDeleteScrew organic, I don't have the time or the money for that.
parissucksliterally - best post I've ever seen on this subject. My feelings exactly. If we followed everything they said we'd never leave the house except to strip the bark off of trees since that's probably the only thing that's safe. (unless animals have pooped on it or something - you can't win!) Just use common sense!
ReplyDeleteI am a soy-allergic vegetarian and I buy and eat as organically and ethicially as i can afford. No trendy shopping just good, local, in season fruits and veggies, beans and grains. I buy humane local eggs and organic dairy. I shop the farmer's markets, a couple of locally owned markets and Trader Joe's and Costo (great organics). We've been doing this 10 years.
ReplyDeleteDoes is help? Yes, my hubster has heart disease. He's has no cholesterol issues and his surgeon told him to stick with what he is doing for the rest of his life.
I have an auto-immune diagnosis of RA but I refuse to use drugs just yet. I manage with diet adding natural anti-inflammatory foods.
I did miss seafood and beef for a while and enjoy watching cooking shows but I wouldn't go back now.
Coming from a large farming community (in Western Kansas), I can say that right now there is very little difference between organic and non-organic. It's just a word that makes some people feel better about what they're putting into their mouths.
ReplyDeleteparissucksliterally, you have me hysterically laughing at my desk. I am around people all day who brag about their organic meals and how much they pay for everything. I eat non-organic chocolate and drink non-organic wine. I'm happy.
ReplyDeleteI buy my produce from my local farm, I'm more of a believer in local is better. I can tell you there are Grades of produce (a, b, c) set by grocery buyers who select produce from the source. I can also tell you Walmart does not get the a produce. Nor do they get the a meat. Pick your local butcher, grocer, farm or whole foods over Walmart.
ReplyDeleteIt is pretty difficult to get that USDA Organic stamp if you are a small farm that is really truly trying to be "back to the earth". Swing enough money in front of the USDA and FDA (big business/ factory farms) and you got yourself a stamp.
ReplyDeleteFarmers markets and direct from small family owned farms is the best way to go if possible.
I think organic is TOTAL bullshit. And I live amongst lifelong farmers and I've worked on farms. Seriously. Jersey ain't called the Garden State for nothin'.
ReplyDeleteI do wholeheartedly buy local produce whenever available. Jersey tomatoes, blueberries and corn are amazingly delish. So happy the season is coming upon us.
I totally think "organic" is a word used to jack up the prices on food, which honestly pisses me off greatly. Thanks, U.S. government for always looking out for the consumer. Not. Our country would rather focus on the high school shenanigans of our presidential candidates and the endless bickering between the members of Congress instead of ACTUALLY helping the common people of our country.
I buy organic, and am happy doing it. I think it is much better for you nutritionally and for less pesticides in your diet. I also try to buy local as often as possible, it's fresher and more nutrient rich.
ReplyDeleteI'm more of a fan of local, simple (fewer ingredients) and fresh. I do try to buy products that are either organic or natural, or contain such ingredients, if available. Personally I have always had digestive issues and I do MUCH better on organic and fresh foods. And to me (and my family) organic and/or very fresh tastes way, way better.
ReplyDeleteno. i question all that stuff now. yesterday it occured to me that the microwave cover i bought might well be made of bpa's. what can you trust now? grow your own i guess.
ReplyDeleteI buy my stuff at Trader Joe's and whatever I can't find there, I get at Whole Foods if I can afford it.
ReplyDeleteI don't trust anything the USDA says. I'll trust an organic label if it's something other than the USDA. It's run by the same companies it's supposed to be policing. Big fucking surprise.
I do try to buy local produce - in south Florida it's a lot easier to find than in other areas. Local produce seems to taste better but perhaps it's just in my mind.
ReplyDelete@parissucksliterally - what she said.
ReplyDeleteI am a non-organic farmer with a non-organic farmstand who, like most small farmers, must work at a full-time job to make ends meet. It just so happens my full-time job is for an organic distributor, so I know A LOT about this subject.
ReplyDeleteIt is very complicated for a producer/farmer to become Certified Organic. It is not a designation that comes easily or cheaply. Any retail store that is selling organic goods is beholden by law to ensure they are Certified.
At a farmer's market anyone can write "organic" on their sign and charge a higher price for the goods. There is no real oversight there.
I would trust a bonafide store's organic well ahead of a farmer's market.
That said, I buy local. Organic is more than I can afford. There was a recent study by Cornell Cooperative to see what the cost to grow my farm's crop would be conventionally vs. organically. The organic version was SEVEN times the cost of growing organically. This is why organic is more expensive.
I don't know if organic is better than conventional. I don't really care. Life is short - let's eat what we want.
I try to buy local organic foods not just for my health, but for the environment. there is a reason there is a dead zone in the gulf of Mexico, as the Mississippi river, which drains practically all of americas heartland, ends there. All the excess nitrogen causes all sorts of environmental problems in the gulf, including blue baby syndrome.
ReplyDeleteBut back to the original question. I was under the impression that there is a blg difference is quality of livestock life between large scale organic dairies (like horizon) and small scale. Large scale dairies having much less pasture time. Not sure how produce is.
I also try to grow as much as my own food myself to avoid this mess all together.
Here is my food rant of the day - I HATE that my poultry and meat can have water injected in it. I have to pay for the weight and it ruins the consistency. Even some of the organic stuff has 15% chicken broth in it. It is a truly buyer beware.
(There was bound to be a typo...)
ReplyDeleteI meant to say organic was SEVEN times the cost of growing conventionally.
:)
I grow my own tomatoes, herbs, squash and cucumbers. The rest I, like Susan, buy from local farmers here in Jersey (Sussex County has the best). Off season, I only buy frozen. Organic? probably not unless I plan to eat the skin.
ReplyDelete@luckylass -
ReplyDeleteAn organic dairy does not require ANY pasture time for the cattle. They can just be fed on organic feed all day. The only way to be sure the cows you are getting your milk from are pastured is to buy milk that says expressly that the cattle are grass-fed, pastured.
I like to buy as much locally grown goodies as I can, but even that is becoming more and more expensive.
ReplyDeletePersonally I think instead of the organic/non organic talk should morph into the "Lets keep GMO's outt our food" talk.
Farmgirl: thanks for the insight. Poor cows. Sadly my trader joes organic milk does not have this on the label.
ReplyDeletejust stay away from the cloned meat and dairy products. veggies, I know of farms given the organic go ahead (certification), and yet they were directly under a airport flightpath, so really, how "organic" could the veggies be? (that's one example, i was in the biz a few years ago and heard a lot)
ReplyDeleteI go to the St Lawrence Market for fresh produce and meat. Grocery store for the rest. I probably wouldn't buy grocery store produce unless the Market was closed and I was in a pinch.
ReplyDeleteI do not buy organic. Such bullshit.
ReplyDeleteI do love the spring/summer here (NC) to buy locally though. So fresh and tasty!
I used to buy everything organic until I found out the label is just a way for companies to make more money. I still buy organic eggs, not for my health, but because the chickens are treated humanely and fed properly. Cage free is cheaper, but doesn't mean they get to live outside and feel grass under their feet. They still live in squalor and never see the sun.
ReplyDeleteNot trying to preach, idk if that's how it's coming across, it's just what I personally do.
Organic genically modified direct from the EU. Yummmmmm
ReplyDeleteThere are studies that do show organic produce is much higher in nutritional value. And no thank you to pesticides.
ReplyDeleteI stay away from The Dirty Dozen, those I'll pay more for organic. I try to buy local, and I also only purchase my meat in bulk from a farmer here, the cows are grass fed. For the small farmers, produce and meat, they can't afford to go through the process of getting certification.
Unfortunately any chicken products that declare themselves to be free-range are full of shit. That only means the door to the barn is open for a certain part of the day, but the poor chickens are so crowded they can't even get out.
I stay the hell away from Monsanto products, they and the Koch Bros are Evil.
Funny you mention this. Last night I was in a produce store and saw organic grape tomatoes from Mexico. I actually asked aloud (and I was by myself) how we could possible know that.
ReplyDeleteBut you know what? I bought the organic ones. Somehow I feel as if I'm judged for not buying the organic. It's stupid but for whatever reason, I care what strangers think.
That said, I do notice a huge taste difference between fresh farm eggs (or the more expensive Omega-3 eggs) and the cheap cartons. Not in a cake but boiled, huge difference.
Organic = better. Local - even better still, even if it's IPM, I'll buy it. Why? to support my local farmer. I do a work share for my local CSA which just got their organic certification, and like farmgirl said, it ain't easy or cheap, and it's a hell of a lot of paperwork, and tons of rules and regs.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when it comes to livestock, I buy LOCAL. 4H kid raised stuff. You know, cows/chicks/pigs that have only had one bad day. Just because livestock says "Organic" doesn't mean it was humanely raised. All it means is it was fed organic feed.
And yes "free range" is a joke. All that means is "access" to the outside for a certain amt of time of the day (and it ain't much) and usually the door that opens is too small for anything to get through. Look for "pasture raised" on the label.
Since my family's diet is mostly organic (yeah occasionally we succumb to fast food) we basically don't get ill, or if you do, it's a 2 day cold instead of a 5 day one, and I for one feel a lot better - have more energy, blah blah, blah.
Support your local farmer, but more importantly, KNOW your local farmer. They can say the stuff they get is local, but they sure as hell aren't gonna have cantelopes in May in MD you know? Find a good local farmer, stick with them - the produce is fresh and was prolly picked that morning, not 2 weeks ago and shipped from CA with a nutritional value of zilch. Talk to them - find out where they buy their meat, ask around. You'd be surprised at the resources available to you.
Buying only organic gets expensive, unfortunately, but I do try my best to buy the "dirty dozen" organic. Where I live, buying local is also often a lot more expensive (which doesn't make sense to me at all). I buy eggs that specifically say grainfed and outdoors. "Free range" only means they were not in cages, it's still quite possible that those hens never see sunlight. Egg yolk should be a deep, orange colour, not that pale yellow slime you get with Walmart eggs.
ReplyDeleteI once bought a bag of tomatoes from Walmart. The bag had 4 tomatoes. I used three and forgot about the fourth. I found it in the back of my fridge about 5 weeks later - still as plump and red as the day I bought it. I haven't bought Walmart produce since - I don't care how cheap it is. And their ground beef is terrifying.
Hey Chris thanks for the tip re: pasture raised.
ReplyDeleteI have an SIL who is as obnoxious as hell about organic food. I mean great, follow your inclinations, but don't drive other people crazy over it. I get the biggest kick out of while she preaches organic, she is a huge partier every weekend and she is a beautician so she has her hands in chemicals all day. Personally I'd be more worried about drinking and the constant exposure to hair chemicals. She isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Especially when she is crouched over complaining about pancreatitis after some hammerfisted drinking.
ReplyDeleteIs it really organic? There are actual standards for what can be call ORGANIC, unlike the word NATURAL - big difference. So, organic actually IS organic.
ReplyDeleteDoes is work? Well, it works in that you don't eat pesticides that have been put on the food, so it works.
I strongly recommend Googling "The Dirty Dozen" - make sure you buy those fruits and veggies organic. Wash the rest. Always better than not eating them!
You GO, Paris!!!
ReplyDeleteAs I live in South Jersey, there are plenty of farms with plenty of fresh veggies. Or I grow my own.
I agree with luckylass. I hate how meat is injected with water and sodium solution. I've noticed that in the pork tenderloins, and how it the sodium content differs between them.
ReplyDeleteI have a small vegetable and herb garden, and I shop local farmer's markets.
Is cheese popcorn organic? Then yes, yes I do buy organic.
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ReplyDeleteI've read somewhere (a few somewheres) that mass market is not organic, I tend to avoid anything from the big biz companies. I buy local and organic when I can (shit's expensive) because with my child coming through cancer treatment and needing the very best to recover and heal as well as my autoimmune nightmares I have a far better quality of life since switching over to eating simple and organic whole foods-no wheat, soy, very limited sugar and nothing processed. Some of us are just wicked sensitive to the chemicals,etc out there in our food supply, there are a lot of times I wish I wasn't and could just not give a shit about what or how I eat.
ReplyDeleteand oh yeah, I grow my own non GMO veggies,what I can't grow I buy from a local farm, buy eggs from my neighbor and spend the hell of August in the kitchen canning and "putting up" what I can to save on $$ through the winter. Plus I also eat in season which helps.
ReplyDeleteI have so much to say on this subject that I won't say anything at all! I can't not sound preachy about it all because this subject makes my blood boil. I will say that most people are severely under-educated about the food they consume.
ReplyDeleteAny good book suggestions at least?
DeleteI buy organic whenever possible, but I'm an Environmental Chemistry major. lol I'd feel like a hypocrite if I didn't. :)
ReplyDelete:) to all of you.
ReplyDelete@Steph: Where are you from, Massachusetts? "Wicked sensitive?" You must be!
ReplyDeleteAll u can do is try to eat the right way.
ReplyDeleteHere in New Zealand, in order to obtain organic status with meat, you don't give the animals antibiotics. So if a dairy cow has mastitis, you treat it homeopathically instead of with penicillin. I don't buy organic meat and dairy because of ethical reasons. I think it is cruel to withhold treatment simply for the label of organic. A shot of penicillin will have the cow feeling more comfortable and less painful in 24 hours than a homeopathic remedy that will take much longer to provide the same relief, if it does at all. Also, any cow that's on Ab does not have their milk go into the vat, so that milk is not sent for human consumption. To withhold proven treatment that gives a production animal faster recovery simply for a label is unethical and cruel in my opinion. Free range chicken eggs, I have no problem with and will support free range products.
ReplyDeleteAs for grass fed, NZ cows are all grass fed. While it does produce better tasting meat, when there is the usual winter grass deficit, it's so hard to see so many thin cows in poor body condition while pregnant (winter here is June-August and most cows calve in August). The main reason for feeding mostly grass? It's cheaper.
Surely, in NZ like in the US they feed them hay in the winter? They store all during harvest season to feed the cows during the winter that are grass fed here, they don't just let them starve.
ReplyDeleteThey will feed them silage, forage, and concentrates but not really hay. It rains so much here in the winter that all the nutrients from the hay are leached out into the ground. Cows are kept outdoors all the time. But sometimes farmers do not feed enough to meet the metabolic needs for pregnancy and they get thin.
ReplyDeleteOrganic is this years lo-carb. I'm pretty sure when Whole Foods imports "organic frozen mixed vegetables" from China that it's all pure bullshit.
ReplyDeleteI do however buy from the farmers mkt because I want to support smaller growers.
And fresh eggs outta the chickens butt taste dramtically different from high production farms. Seriously.
A little different from "organic" versus "nonorganic" argument, I have made an effort to eat "real food" versus "processed food." Real food is the stuff you find mostly on the outer edges of your grocery stores. Processed food includes food made in laboratories. My main reason for doing this is because I find "real" food more satisfying. I never really feel full after a meal of processed food.
ReplyDeleteI will say, though, thinking about this topic, that I'm all about fresh, locally grown, organic goodness. We grow tomatoes, potatoes, onions, peppers, cucumbers, etc., and have chickens for eggs (not meat chickens).
ReplyDeleteHowever, last summer made me appreciate our industrial food complex a little more. We had a hell of a hot, dry summer, and if we really had to just eat what we grew, it would have been potatoes, onions, and eggs, period. We would have been some grumpy-ass farmers. So, I try to keep that in mind. We've got a lot of folks to feed in this wide world!
I am going to preface my comments by saying I am a chemist by education and a former member of the American Chemical Society. I have been out of chemistry and in IT for more than 30 years.
ReplyDeleteThere are at least two questions being mixed here.
Question 1: Local Farmers Market vs. non local food. This is a question of freshness and the winner is probably local farmstead followed by frozen followed by non local fresh.
Question 2: Organic vs Conventional is a flawed question because at the very least you need to add to the question integrated pest management. IPM uses organic methods and techniques as the front line resorting to insecticides and herbicides as a last resort.
I come down in favor of IPM; too many of the materials used in conventional farming are long lived in the environment.
People who have a taste preference for organic over conventional need to take a closer look. Have you blind tasted a fruit or vegetable of the same variety, grown in close proximity, and picked at the same time? If you have not made that comparison you cannot say you have a preference for organic. Unfortunately over the last 60 years many farmers shifted their planting to varieties that packed and traveled well as the expense of taste. The Red Delicious apple is the perfect example of this.
There is not good science supporting organics or non GMA food. The clamor for them reflects poor understanding of science in society.
I also buy local when I can. I raise chickens for eggs. I will NEVER go back to store bought eggs after eating these. Try to find a local egg farmer if you can. It's well worth the time and money.
ReplyDeleteMy ILs have a small farm with a large garden. My husband grows strawberries. I just made jam today. Delicious. Blueberry season is here in a month. I pick 'em right off the bush, and whatever I don't eat or cook, I freeze.
Hard to believe, but yep, Jersey WAS the Garden State long before it became known for Sopranos, Housewives and Snooki. ;)
I buy as local as I can, when I can, and organic when I can afford it. I don't believe, though, that all the things labelled organic are. Eggs from local farms, yes! I grew up with a huge garden, and that's the one thing I truly miss now that I live in an apartment building.
ReplyDeleteNothing like a little travel to remind you what real food is! I eat organic because it fills me faster and lasts longer. Poor countries export fruits and veggies from the corporate farms that are laden with chemicals and genetically modified. What is grown at home is amazing, and delicious. Chickens roam the streets. Fish are plentiful in the ocean. I had been in the states so long I honestly forgot what color fruit really is!
ReplyDeleteI'm more interested in local than organic, really. That's one difference between organic obsession and doing CSAs & farmers' markets (which I do)...I'm supporting my neighbors, basically, knowing where my food comes from and who's benefiting, blah blah blah.
ReplyDeleteAnd I try not to eat super processed food in general but I was raised on it so sometimes it comforts me.
Whole Food, Trader Joe's and Costco.....the dog treats from TJ's because they're not from China....
ReplyDeleteMy meat and Chicken either Whole Food or Costcø because they label honestly....no pink slime in my burgers...
I do my best but you never really know...
Technically all fruits and veggies are organic!!! We really need a new term to denote no bug spray foods.
ReplyDeleteNZ practices aside, in the US, organically raised animals do not use prophylactic antibiotics or hormones like in conventional animals (except chickens which are not allowed to be given hormones). Antibiotics are added to most conventional feed because it promotes faster/larger growth and meat production. Organic farmers DO treat with antibiotics if needed but the animals must then be sold as conventional meat.
ReplyDeleteWhen you buy organic meat, the animals generally are treated much better since factory farm conditions create an atmosphere that encourages the spread of disease (another reason factory farms use prophylactic antibiotics). Just as diseases spread more easily/rapidly amongst people in densely packed cities, so too do diseases spread amongst animals in densely packed farm environments.
As a shoutout to Whole Foods, which started as a tiny little bulk/health food store in Austin, TX (where I used to shop long ago), they inspect all of their suppliers personally and make sure those suppliers adhere to standards that WF has implemented (for example, in Kansas City, we have a local dairy that makes fantastic eggnog [WF carries their milk, which is not organic but rBGH-free and humanely produced], the eggnog had a flavor additive which WF does not allow so they insisted it be reformulated to adhere to WF standards...which it was).
Their meat sources are inspected and given animal welfare ratings from 1-4 with 4 being standard humane conditions and 1 being animal nirvana. They only carry fish that are sustainably harvested (as certified by an outside organization) and try to direct you to better choices that can substitute for overfished species.
I am not employed by WF(nor have I ever been) and Whole Foods is certainly expensive, but I do feel that even as they have grown they have attempted to retain their values that they had at the beginning.
That said, I grow a few things, buy local when I know it is humanely/sustainably produced and shop at places like WF otherwise. Like most people, I do the best I can, but outside of insisting that my meat come from humane sources (and not eating pork at all), I'm not a Nazi about it or anything. I can go to someone's house and eat normally...although I'll probably skip the meat, but I won't lecture.
The only time I was absolutely militant was when my daughter was very young...until she went to school probably 90% or better of what she ate and drank came from certified organic sources-- that more than anytime was when Whole Foods was a Godsend since it was the only place (at the time) you could get organic baby food.
Just food for thought, so to speak.
I would love to say that I buy local and organic, but my current economic status usually translates my food preferences into what's cheapest. I don't sweat it too much -- there is enough for me to worry about. If I could afford more than $30 a week for groceries, I would probably pay more attention.
ReplyDeleteHudsonJoe summed it up nicely!
ReplyDeleteIf the general public only knew what was being sprayed on their produce, knew what was seeping into the ground, and realized what children who live nearby are inhaling, it might change a lot of the way people think.
Living in a small farming community (my family are farmers, I will inherit the farms in the next few years) I see it first hand and see the struggle that these farmers endure. The bigger bucks are on the CAFOS that are popping in rural communities, threatening their entire livelihood. I've had 2 pop up on each side of my beautiful family farm house where I live with my two girls and have fought a 3rd one and won. It really is a scary venture.
Luckily, my family (for the time) seems to be on the same page of where we want our farms to go. We have switched to no-till farming, no roundup spraying. But, it provides less produce when doing it this way then the big farms that have thousands of acres.
This topic gets people SO riled up! ha!
ReplyDeleteI've read so many books/articles on the subject, I don't know what to believe anymore. One thing that always stood out to me was how important it was, particularly, to buy organic meat/dairy, so that is what I focus on in terms of shopping organic. I try to buy local when I can and am very lucky to live in an area with a surplus of farmers markets, CSA's and wonderful, fresh food.
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