Tom Gabel of the band Against Me! has given an interview to Rolling Stone where he comes out as transgender and says that he is beginning the process of becoming a woman. He says the most difficult part of the process is having to explain all of this to his wife who he says has been wonderful and that the two of them will stay married. They also have a two year old daughter. I think his wife will stay with Tom, who will be known as Laura Jane Grace in the future, for now, but I wonder if she even knows what life will be like living with another woman as your husband. Is his wife gay? See, this is where the whole transgendered thing is really hard for me to process. They were in a heterosexual relationship and now he is asking his wife to be in a lesbian relationship. Is his wife bisexual? You can't just make someone go from one to the other. I know there is love, but Tom/Laura is still going to be hot for his wife. His wife though may only like men. I can see them staying married, but maybe not together.
These things piss me off when they involve other people. I'm assuming no one held a gun to his head to marry and have a child. Deciding to do these things after the fact seems incredibly selfish. I feel bad for the wife, but more sorry for the kid who will be incredibly confused one day. Can you imagine your father "deciding" to be your mother instead? Lots and lots of therapy for that kid, for sure.
ReplyDelete"I know there is love, but Tom/Laura is still going to be hot for his wife."
ReplyDeleteSo are you saying that Tom's sexual identity is as a lesbian? That's a lot for me to process too.
If I knew who this guy and his band were, I still wouldn't care.
ReplyDeleteSee, Enty's point is one of the issues I have with this, as well. I know that if I were married and my husband sat me down and said that he felt like a woman trapped in a man's body, and he was going to have gender reassignment surgery, I would wish him well and then call a divorce lawyer. I know you love the person, not their body, but I am not a lesbian and not attracted to bijingos. Someone else's decisions shouldn't "force" someone to become a lesbian.
I've got to use the word "bijingos" in a sentence today. Well, besides this one, a spoken sentence.
DeleteBijingo was his name-o!
My kids go to school with children who have a mother and a trans man who became a woman. They still call him Dad and the parents are still married. I don't know how it works either.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone's thoughts - I wish Tom/Laura well and it's nice that you want to stay married and all, but the entire physical relationship would change and that would not work for me. There might still be love, but I can't picture it working as a physically intimate relationship anymore. It's great that the wife is supportive though and hope they can find a way to make their way thru it all and provide stability for their child.
ReplyDeleteDamn, always thought he was hot too.
Ditto all the above.
ReplyDeleteIf you have these feelings, you've had them since adolescence. You know you feel this way and yet you drag in innocent 3rd parties and make their lives difficult because of it. While I sympathize with people who have these feelings, they lose me when they drag other people into it and hurt them.
Never heard of the band, but I think that's awesome.
ReplyDeleteI think that at this point in it, his wife is probably still in some form of denial. Maybe they can make it work, but I can't see how. She has the right to be loved the way she needs to be loved, just as he does. I have a feeling she'll realize this somewhere down the line. She may just be so eager to support him right now that she's not considering herself emotionally in the long-term.
ReplyDeleteI don't begrudge him, though. It's a complex situation. The father of one of my dearest friends came out as transgender when we were in our mid 20s and underwent gender reassignment surgery. It was a lot to deal with but SHE is a much happier person than HE was and, frankly, much easier to get along with because of not having to bottle things up any longer.
I just have to hope that they are able to go through this process in a healthy manner given how young their child is.
The amount of ignorance on this thread is shocking.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that making this kind of transition is easy, and known since adolescence, shows a shocking lack of awareness about what trans people go through in this process.
My best friend is FTM, and his wife was once his lesbian partner. They've been together fifteen years, and there was a struggle at first, but love got them through.
They also have two well adjusted children who shrug the whole thing off.
@SusanB, yes they are probably feelings this person has had since adolescence, but it's possible they didn't understand their feelings or weren't able to process them until they got older, did the things they were "expected" to do...get married, have kids, etc. Then it became clear what all those musings in their subconscience were about. I think it's amazing that his wife is choosing to stay in the marriage...just goes to show that they fell in love with each other as people, not as male/female. Would that we all had those kinds of relationships.
ReplyDeletei just saw a documentary with a male very feminine married brasilian transexual who does breast implants and keeps his penis .They looked very happy together ,very in love (his wife said that all she wanted is his happiness)
ReplyDeleteWord up to Robert in the ATX!
ReplyDeleteYeah... that is all...
Agree with Robert, identifying the need to tranagender can't be easy, especially since society doesn't endorse that way of thinking. Our society, generally speaking, still can't even get past the "gay thing."
ReplyDeleteSexuality is not as black or white as this post would have you believe. And frankly a successful marriage is about SO much more than what the other person has going on down there. I say good for them for trying to make it work.
ReplyDeleteHuh.
ReplyDeleteWell good for him and I'll stay out of speculating for what will happen to his relationship.
Semi-side note: I used to "date" someone that was a drummer for them when they first started out. I had no idea they had gotten to be gossip worthy.
Was it George?! We may have crossed paths IRL is so...
DeleteHaha. Nevermind. I'm a dumbass for forgetting these dudes have ladies all over. You could be anywhere. Anyway, I lived in Gainesville for awhile & this thread is bumming me out bigtime. I'm just trying to lighten up myself.
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ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with Char that there is a lot more to a successful marriage than what genitalia someone has, I must say there's so much more to sexuality than just sex. I am heterosexual, but it's not simply because I like penis and not vagina. I like MEN. Period. If my husband told me he was transgender and would like to start living his life as a woman and for us to be in a lesbian relationship, sorry, but that is NOT just saying "oh everything will be exactly the same but I'll have different junk down there." Um. No. That's not really how it works. It changes a lot more than just how we would have sex, so yeah, it's a huge difference than just penis vs. vagina.
ReplyDeleteA trans person is not changing their gender. He has always been a woman, he's changing the outside to reflect that.
Delete@Dixie - you put 'date' in quotes? Whatever did you mean? ;)
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing: we don't have to understand it, we're not married to him. The curiosity regarding the mechanics is natural, sure, but we don't live in their bedroom. (Except, maybe, Dixie.)
It is a lot to process. But why waste time trying? What matters in life is that a person can find their happiness.
ReplyDeleteI dislike labels. I fell in love with another woman and left my husband, who I never really loved and was very young when I married him. I was with my girlfriend for 2 years. Our relationship was healthier and more loving than any hetero one I`ve ever witnessed. Part of what ended us was her discomfort with other peoples opinions and my stress at keeping the secret for her.
My mom was one of the few people that knew, and what made me uncomfortable were her questions about my sexuality, ie are you bisexual then? Gay? Why do we have to put a label on what we don`t understand? It`s as simple as 2 people loving each other, or someone feeling desperately unhappy in their skin so they change their life so they can find that happiness, which is very brave.
Fuck labels. The world would be a better place if people could accept even if they don`t understand. Is it hurting anyone else? Maybe, but how can you be truly happy if someone you love is truly unhappy? Is it hurting strangers? Absolutely not. Is discussing it openly helping? If it gives someone else courage to be who they are, yes.
As for me and labels? I am with an amazing man now. Life is a complicated journey, but if you don`t allow yourself to be pigeonholed it`s an awesome one.
Brilliant post, thank you for sharing this
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ReplyDelete"The amount of ignorance on this thread is shocking." oh really? have you lived it, because i have. boo-hoo, he/she has it SO hard. he/she should have thought about that BEFORE he brought other people into his june & ward fantasy. he's been a liar his whole life and now everyone else will suffer. i'm not saying he should be unhappy, i'm saying he doesn't get to play the victim when HE created so many other victims in the process.
ReplyDelete"Sexuality is not as black or white as this post would have you believe. And frankly a successful marriage is about SO much more than what the other person has going on down there. I say good for them for trying to make it work." i think we can agree that lying is not a proper foundation for any relationship. since he had to explain this to his wife, apparently he was not at all honest. he lied about who he is. she doesn't even know him, so how can she love him? and soon she will be asking herself what else he has lied about. it can't end well for them.
I find this as confusing a concept as anyone but mostly I'm with Jolene Jolene as to "I like MEN" and a man who becomes a woman just isn't a man anymore.
ReplyDeleteAs for how this will play out, it didn't work for Chaz so I guess we'll see.
Lmao @Em. Not even sure how to respond to that!
ReplyDeleteActually pretty shocked to hear they are known well enough to be interview by RS.
@Dixie, just yanking your chain, totally teasing you. Happy Wednesday!
ReplyDelete@Me - I agree, lying sucks, and going into any relationship with less than honest intentions is wrong. However, is it really lying if you don't know? Sometimes thoughts and feelings take years to formulate and be recognized. That's all.
ReplyDeleteGrrrrrl, (@Em) I know you are! Happy Wednesday to you as well!
ReplyDeletePS - STILL love seeing you & @Maja comment back to back. Thinking @Libby with the armpit sniff photo could make it an all-out giggle fest. (Glad to see you around again @Libby)
ReplyDeleteSexual orientation and Gender orientation are totally separate. It is just as confusing, if not more so, for the person in transition.
ReplyDeleteIf society didn't try to kill, bully and "cure" those with different orientations then they wouldn't be forced into living a life that's not natural TO THEM.
Eventually the pain becomes so great that they need to be how they are or die. The pain is magnified by the fear of hurting those they love and trust as well as the fear of being rejected and hated by those they love and trust.
They never set out to hurt anyone. No one wins but more often then not, the person who comes out stands alone and looses everyone and everything.
There is a rise amongst this upcoming generation of identifying not as gay nor straight (nor bi) but SEXUALLY FLUID. And I think this is a noble concept we should all embrace.
ReplyDeleteI understand that sometimes straight people (btw, also how I identify) think that because the LGBTQQI demand rights and have parades that celebrate their sexuality that this somehow makes them a group we can all speculate about insofar as their sex life is concerned. But they celebrate their right to have the same freedoms as anyone else- NOT to be questioned about what they do or dont do in the sack.
I think the reality is hetero or homo, there is a kaleidoscope-like spectrum of what (and whom) people are and arent into sexually and what titillates and arouses us all.
I think the less we try to fit (like Enty is doing) people into traditional heteronormative boxes and the more we simply wish others well in their transitional phase of whatever part of life they're in, the better off we'll all be. And the freer we'll all be in exploring that aspect of ourselves.
No man (or woman) is an island and our actions affect everyone around us. So now his wife will be married toa woman? How fair is that? She signed up for marrying a man and he changes that now? That's a pretty big deal...And kids get their sense of stablity from their parents. If dad is now a woman....I have a HARD time believe that any kid (child or adult) can simply "shrug that off". Nope. Not buying it. Adult children are upset at their parents all of the time b/c of decisions they make with money or new spouses or whatever. So the fact that the parent has a GENDER CHANGE is something that can be "shrugged off"....nope. not buying it.
ReplyDeleteI feel for his wife and kid. Him...not so much.
How do we know he was lying? The wife probably knew what his intentions were all long. Good for her for adjusting. If my significant other was going through agood difficult change I'd be there for them. They're still going to be them after the operation.
ReplyDeleteI hate how everyone is saying there are victims. There is no crime.
I just want them to be happy and to keep making awesome music.
I have to agree with some of the others. I like men and don't think I could hang on to a marriage or relationship like this and it has nothing to do with the sex because I can totally be satisfied in other ways. But I like a man's man, someone who makes me feel like a princess and safe. But that's just me and I respect those that could do it.
ReplyDeleteCan I just say that he's not going to make a very attractive woman though?
Transition in being gay or straight is all well and good. You can adapt to whomever you are attracted to.
ReplyDeleteTransgender is a bit different. Once you've become a woman (or vice versa), it's hard to reverse course.
I'm one of the "closed minded" (as some of you have said. Sorry, I just don't get why a spouse should have to be supportive of something so dramatically different than who they thought they were marrying. Being with a same sex partner is not everyone's preference. His wife chose to live a heterosexual lifestyle -- now his actions are forcing her into a lesbian lifestyle. WTH should she be ok with that?! You can't turn on same sex physical attraction like a light switch (just like you can't with heterosexual attraction....isn't that right, Gay community?!). If she isn't attracted to women, she *isn't going to be suddenly*. Physical is the main differentiation factor between "BFF" and "romantic partner". She has every right to have that romantic attraction to someone else that is more her preference.
And BTW, what does this do to the legality of their marriage, assuming they live in a state where same sex marriage is not legal?
Let him change his sex...but don't berate anyone for thinking that his wife shouldn't have to accept it.
I understand feeling for the spouse in these situations, same as in situations where a partner realizes he or she is gay. But our society isn't set up to allow people to really be themselves from the start, not in all cases. So sympathy for the person who didn't realize or wasn't able to deal with the reality of who they really are doesn't seem like too much to ask. You can have sympathy for both parties here.
ReplyDeleteThere are no guarantees. You go into a marriage hoping it will be forever, but that isn't always the case. It's nice that they are going to try to make it work, but no one will blame the wife if she ends up not being happy with that life.
I'm sick and tired of people trying to explain and efend what shoudn't and can't be explained or defended. You simply just don't wake up and say "hey I want to be a woman/man" No! People are so selfish they want to get/be whoever/whatever they want and fuck the consequences. Poor child will end up in therapy, if she's lucky. I am tired of gay people having more rights now than non-gay people!!! You want to be gay? Fine. But don't try to change the whole world to suit your selfish needs!
ReplyDelete"I just don't get why a spouse should have to be supportive of something so dramatically different than who they thought they were marrying"
ReplyDeleteI don't think any spouse should HAVE to be supportive of a husband who is MTF, but I think that it's lovely and heartening to hear of those who are. I know a few who have made it work, though it hasn't been easy. If these two say they're going to try to stay together through this difficult process, I will just wish them the best of luck and cross my fingers for them. I do think it's possible, yes. Some people can only ever love a man, or a woman, but not everyone is like that. The sooner we accept that some people are just different from us when it comes to how and who we love, the better off we'd all be.
Maybe love can conquer all?
ReplyDeleteI am all about LBGT rights. But, putting myself in the position of the wife I would feel betrayed, lost and so sad. I totally believe that they can work it out if they choose and their mutual love for each other can carry them forward.
I know that I love my husband dearly. But, I do not love him unconditionally as I do my children. It is a different sort of love, a mutual partnership. While I could still love him with all of my heart, I could not stay married to him.
I'm sorry, but most men make really ugly women.
ReplyDeleteDamocles you can rest assured, gay people do not have more rights than non-gay people. They don't even have the same rights. Happy now?
ReplyDelete@Trey, yes they do. Worst of all straight people are now called abnormal and are discriminated just because they simply not agree with the idea of being gay.
ReplyDeleteCosign Seachica. And valid point - imagine of he lived in north Carolina. Would their marriage be legal?
ReplyDeleteIf he and the wife are cool with this, all power to them. But don't tell me this is a sound decision as a parent to their child. That child will struggle with this. Maybe not now, but at some point.
I disagree adamently with the ability to have gender reassignment and call me ignorant all you want. I think gender and sexuality has been analyzed and picked apart so much to the point it's just a mindfuck. The moment someone calls themselves a womyn discredited the whole thing in my eyes.
I love this site and I love the commenters -- EXCEPT whenever transgender topics are discussed. For such a pro-gay group of commenters, there is a shocking amount of prejudice and ignorance on transgender topics.
ReplyDeleteA few things:
--Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things. This guy is attracted to women, so he'll become a lesbian.
--Additionally, men who transition to women tend to like women (I.e. straight man to lesbian) and women who transition to men tend to like women as well (I.e. lesbian to straight man). Clearly not all, but most.
--Not only is sexuality far from black and white, but female sexuality, in particular, is quite fluid. There is a scientific basis in this.
--The sheer act of coming out as transgender and deciding to transition is such a difficult, confusing, and momentous time. This guy probably wasn't able to make sense of it for a long time.
--His wife deserves huge credit. Not all wives who decide to stay with their transgender spouses are able to maintain their relationship -- BUT MANY DO. They are putting their child first by trying to keep their family intact.
I seriously suggest that many of you visit glad.org and learn to be more sensitive to transgender people.
Adventurous Kate! Well-done! I think you covered it all. :-)
ReplyDeleteI just came to comment on a comment upthread about labeling people.
ReplyDeleteEverything and everyone is labeled. I think it's probably human nature to do so, and because of that I don't think it will change anytime soon.
As far as this artical is concerned, I wish them all the best of luck and as easy a transition as possible.
Wow, some of the comments here! If he was feeling trapped in a man's body I'm sure he had "feminine" traits even before he realized he wanted to become a transgender. And that's the person who his wife fell in love with. I don't think she's in denial, she loves this person. Who knows, maybe it will come to her that this isn't right for her. But right now she's not being forced into a thing. As for the child, it will be confusing, but so are a lot of things to a child and if the parents treat this with honesty and love, that's what the child will feel.
ReplyDeleteNot for me, but who the hell am I to judge what makes people happy? No one is being harmed.
Um, article.
ReplyDelete@msgirl
ReplyDelete"No one is being harmed." The child is.
^Says who?
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding? Just think of that child for a sec. One day you wake up and you have a daddy and the next your daddy becomes your mommy, clothes make-up and all. Don't you think it'll be "a little" weird to that child?
ReplyDeleteNo one "becomes" another gender overnight. It's a process. I think you're assuming he'll look like the Drag Queens you've seen on tv? Not the same, dude. At all.
DeleteI meant *she'll. She already identifies as female. My bad.
DeleteDepends on how old the kid is. I could see at 15 being a little put off, but at 2? They have no idea.
ReplyDeleteJust read elsewhere that he's felt this way a long while, so his wife definitely knew what was up when they married. Now he's moving along with the physical aspect.
ReplyDeleteAs for the child, I know kids from gay marriages, and believe me they are extremely well adjusted.
Woops, I forgot to mention this child is only 2. Thanks Mishkey. This will be very matter-of-fact to a 2 YO.
ReplyDeleteI have a million questions about this that only Tom G. and his wife could answer.
ReplyDeleteIf they can make it work, good for them. If they can't, I would understand.
Sign up the kids for counseling now.
They deserve a neutral outlet for their feelings about all this.
@msgirl
ReplyDeleteThen it's even more selfish of him to have got married and have a child knowing he was feeling that way.
It will be really interesting to see how this unfolds.
ReplyDeleteI think it's possible to be attracted to a person without it being all about that person's gender.
There's clearly a lot ahead for them to experience, discover and sort through. I hope they can find their way with as much grace and dignity as possible. It can't be easy.
I'm sorry but my first husband came out to me AFTER our wedding. We got divorced. I hate to be one of the closed-minded but he knew before we got married and we're still friends today. . . He's one of my best friends. But, if he were honest with himself and wanted to be an out and happy gay man, why marry me? He asked me. No one forces men/women gay/straight to get married and have children. They can be bachelor/ettes for life. He's happier now and says he's proud and out. Wonderful.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, if you're not willing to stand up for who you are then don't boo hoo about people not respecting who you are. And if there are conflicts, leave others out of it. It's not fair.
Parker Nosey that's different, he knew and never told you. Laura's wife knew his feelings before they got married.
ReplyDeleteAs for the kid, I doubt he had the baby knowing he would find the courage to change later.
Or maybe he really wanted a bio child and knew this was his chance? Who knows? Only they do.
ReplyDeleteSo long as they are going to make that child into a sane, responsible member of society, I have nothing to say.
XX=female. XY=male. I'm not sure estrogen and lopping off body parts changes that.
ReplyDeleteAs a huge fan of Against Me! and of Tom Gable (or now Laura I suppose) I can't feel anything but joy for her. The band has had lyrics in the past that has hinted at something like this, but I don't think anyone ever took it to be true - they were few and far between.
ReplyDeleteAlmost the entire punk community has shown nothing but love and support to Laura, her wife, and the band. Thats what this kind of music is about - being true to yourself. I cannot imagine feeling so uncomfortable in my own skin. Good for Laura on her decision. As far as her wife and daughter, I think everything will be ok. It will be weird in the same way that her father plays in a punk band and is gone half the time. The little girl will have a different life than other children, but she already did. And I think she's young enough that it won't be a huge deal when she really understands it...she's two, she hasn't "grown up" with Tom as her father. It will be hard for the couple no doubt, but if her wife ends up bailing I can only imagine it would be with the best intentions and that Laura would understand.
If he is an XY, then he's never been a woman. He's a man. And his outside reflects that he's a man. He may not "feel" like a man, but he is a man. Changing his appearance won't change the fact that XY=man.
ReplyDelete@Kate: "... female sexuality, in particular, is quite fluid. There is a scientific basis in this."
ReplyDeleteSources, please?
My weird idea is that love has to do with the person, not what body parts they may or not have, so I can see this working if they truly love and respect each other as human beings.
ReplyDeleteAnd to the judgers - it's none of your damn business, so why get all worked up over someone else's life choices that have NOTHING to do with you? Don't get that, never will.
ReplyDeleteFrom the WHO:
ReplyDelete"'Sex' refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.
"'Gender' refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women."
http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/
"No one forces men/women gay/straight to get married and have children."
It may not be at-gunpoint forcing, but like it or not, society continues to pressure those who are 'different' to conform, including marrying someone to whom they are not actually attracted and going through the motions for appearances, or in the hopes that it will 'fix' them. People who are filled with self-hatred may do it to try to fit in. Sometimes they come to accept who they are, and people get unfortunately hurt with the tough decisions that are made as a result of accepting that reality (divorces, etc). Sometimes they carry on living a lie. Sometimes they can't take it and kill themselves.
I am sorry that this happened to you, ParkerNosey, but if society encouraged us to accept ourselves as we are--gay, straight, bisexual, and so on--and not shame us for being 'different', things like that might not happen.
Parker, awesome post. Madlyb, I'm not judging his decision to be gay. I am judging the selfishness of his act as regards a child. Snapdragon, it's not society who forces you to be who you are, it's nature. You don't want to accept nature? Fine. But don't involve third parties and expect the world to revolve around you and change because of you.
ReplyDeleteBodies - including genitals, reproductive organs AND chromosomes - are physical. My belief is that sexual orientation and gender identification are not. That's why someone can feel that they are "a woman trapped in a man's body". For those of you who think that is an impossible concept to grasp...how about opening your minds just a little bit.
ReplyDeleteAnd Damocles - there are many different ways to make a family, and there are parents out there - gay, straight, transgendered - who are not afraid of spending time with their children, talking to them and explaining things to them in an eduicated and loving way, thus eliminating the need for therapy - therapy, by the way, is not the enemy. Many people go. Some are christians with straight parents! Imagine that!
ReplyDeleteAdventurousKate, thank u. Indees there are some bleeding heart liberals in this site who will throw shade at u when u call a celebs kid ugly but will bash a brave and inspiring man for coming out of the shadows and admitting he's transgender? How does that logic work?
ReplyDeleteAgainst Me! Is one of my favorite bands. Tom has lived through substance abuse and writes wonderful songs. I hope him and Heather can work it out.
Snapdragon- EXCELLENT post!
ReplyDeleteDamocles- no, just no.
Regardless of how any of us feel, she has made her decision. Hopefully making it public will give courage to others to do so as well. Congrats to them for being able to get through this. It's yet another step towards the world being okay, or at least open to accept "differences". That is all.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who got married as a man and transitioned to being a woman. Her marriage to a woman remained legal even though her transition took place before any gay marriages were legal in the US.
ReplyDeleteGuys- Obama just came out (no pun intended haha) as the first president to openly support same-sex marriage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThought this news was apropos to our discussion.
Take that Republicans!
Jasmine you realize it was only for show right?
ReplyDeleteThe man is running scared for his political future and grabbing every last straw he can reach.
Think about it, if he really was serious, he would have taken steps way sooner than now.
Personally I think this should have been leagalized years ago.. but nobody on either side of the political playground has the brass ones to make it happen.
@JoElla--I'm not really for or against Obama, but you gotta start somewhere. He has said in the past that it's an issue he plans to revisit and reevaluate, because with his Christian values, he was always torn on the subject. And he said in response to the North Carolina Amendment One bullshit, not just out of the blue.
ReplyDeleteVery true Jolene, but I don't think he would have even talked about this *if* other democrates didn't go rouge and start talking about this and their support for it.
ReplyDeleteI think they are the ones who actually got the ball rolling, not Obama
If you actually believe that O just now decided, after yeeaaaars of pondering the issue, that he's on board with same-sex marriage then you are deluded. Please. Big straw grab there.
ReplyDeleteJoElla is right. I never understood my gay friends who put up those rainbow Obama signs in 2008. He never felt very sincere or über progressive when it came to equal rights for the LGBT community. Didn't vote for him before, not voting for him now. Green party all the way. I'm done voting for the lesser of two evils just b/c third parties aren't given proper weight and consideration.
ReplyDeletePresident Obama wrote in 2006 that he does support same-sex unions. I'm not sure if this was before or after he was asked to consider running for the Presidency that year but his position is on record. He has been tight lipped about it these past few years but there is DADT. Things are progressing - slowly - but they are progressing.
ReplyDeleteSlowly. Sadly. Was he ever really pro same sex marriage or just pro same sex civil unions b/c that was how a lot of pols dealt with the issue several years ago. The LGBT community wants the same rights not sort of similar but not quite equal rights.
ReplyDeleteDianaofThemyscrira--You're totally right. He's never been super progressive about it. BUT he also hasn't gone all out and said "marriage should be between a man and woman because the bible says so" blah blah BLAH that many presidents before him have said. It is a slow process because anybody who goes far left on same sex marriage right off the block will never win the presidential election AND will never get that bill passed. Period. He's not the only person running this country. Getting past the right wing congress is what he needs to do. You think they'll vote in favor of equal marriage? YEAH RIGHT. It would be a losing battle. It absolutely must be in baby steps. And I can't fault anyone for that. Baby steps are steps. It's incredible how behind the government always is. Incredible.
ReplyDelete@yawn - If your "was it George" question was directed at me, no it was not George & doesn't matter WHO it was really. This was a loooong time ago.
ReplyDeleteThis thread got pretty...strange.
Jolene. re B.O. and "...because with his Christian values, he was always torn on the subject...." - this is major BS. Come on.
ReplyDeleteTom has my 100% support. God bless his wife, whatever she wants to do is fine with me.
...and breaking news.. President B.O. was reading Cdan and is now supporting gay marriage...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAgent!! BWHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeleteWell played my dear very well played!
I hate not to come in on the political end this thread has taken....
ReplyDeleteI wish him and his family the very best. I can't begin to imagine How terrifying it could be to go public in our society for a Trans gender. But there are other folks who are in the same position, so maybe this will encourage them to be who they really are!
I hate not to come in on the political end this thread has taken....
ReplyDeleteI wish him and his family the very best. I can't begin to imagine How terrifying it could be to go public in our society for a Trans gender. But there are other folks who are in the same position, so maybe this will encourage them to be who they really are!
This is another subject that fascinates me. Saw a tv show recently where a transgendered couple got married. He was on the transgendered dating show w/Calpernia. Back then he looked like a lesbian. Fast forward a few years, his new wife had an identical twin brother and became an attractive woman. And Jim had definitely become more masculine and attractive. They made a great couple, and blended right in. I hope they have a happy marriage!
ReplyDeleteAnd on another note, the "pregnant man," Thomas Beattie is totally trashing his wife. Last reports I saw were that he was calling her an alcoholic. Now - via Radar - he hooked up with someone from his kids daycare. He started this relationship before he left his wife and is having the kids call the new woman mom. He is a complete famewhore and the more I see of him, the more he reminds me of Jon Gosselin. It isn't really the looks, it is the douchey attitude.
And this couple - never heard of the band, but I admire him for doing this now. I don't know their music, but I am wondering about their future music, what does his voice sound like? Any fans of their music out there?
Thanks for the nice words, Dixie. I usually read every comment here every day, but I only comment in spurts.
ReplyDeleteHere's my armpit! Sorry it's late!
It wasnt my intention to start a political thread but I was genuinely thrilled and awestruck to see this all over the news and felt I had to post about it (especially in this post).
ReplyDeleteI think we can be all cynical and the truth is of course Obama hasnt been as quick on this topic as many of us libs would like. BUT BUT BUT if you just look at this in the simpliest sense a fucking American President for the first TIME EVER is publicly saying it's okay to be gay and have gay rights. That's fucking progress, any way you slice it.
@Jolene: "BUT he also hasn't gone all out and said "marriage should be between a man and woman because the bible says so" blah blah BLAH that many presidents before him have said."
ReplyDeleteWrong. Here's Obama's thoughts during a taping of WBBM-AM's "At Issue," in 2004:
"Obama said that his Christian faith dictates that marriage should be between a man and woman. 'I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.'"
@Libby - !!!! Love it!
ReplyDeleteit's fucking shameful how some of you think.
ReplyDeleteRegarding those who cite religious beliefs as their reason for being against same sex unions.. For the sake of argument, let's suppose for a moment that they're correct, so regardless of what the law says, they still aren't married in God's eyes. Nothing has changed, but in the meantime, same sex couples aren't left without the benefits and protections others enjoy. An ideological difference of opinion doesn't justify discrimination.
ReplyDeleteProblem: It's wrong to think that anyone knows what anyone else should be thinking, feeling, or doing whether you are gay, straight, transgender, spouse of a trans person, or any other label (that by no means defines you as a person, only one aspect of who you are).
ReplyDeleteNobody has any idea what his wife is capable of or likes in a significant other and any speculation reflects your own boundaries and desires, not hers. Live and let live.
When you love someone enough, their gender doesn't matter. As a woman, if my male partner told me he wanted to be a woman I would accept him, and though it would be a difficult transition, just like any major medical procedure, I would stand by him or her no matter what. I love who he is, not his penis. I enjoy his penis, but it's not WHO I fell in love with.
ReplyDeleteI wish him and his family the best in their journey.
If people were free to openly be who they are, whatever that is, then people wouldn't have to spend years building up courage to do something that they feel in their hearts. I like to turn it back on those who have prejudice. Imagine walking a mile in those people's shoes. If you are in a relationship, imagine not holding hands with your partner for fear of being beaten, shunned or ridiculed. Maybe it is because I am fat, and have had total strangers yell disgusting comments at me, and have suffered gross discrimination due to appearance, but I have had enough. Live and let live. I wish her, her family, friends, acquaintances and fans all the best. I also think we have the most awesome commentators. The intelligence shown in the vast majority of comments gives me hope.
ReplyDeletehttp://gendertrender.wordpress.com/
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that Tom's tattoos are gonna look like shit on Laura.
ReplyDeleteTattoos can be beautiful on a man or a woman.
ReplyDeleteHeather Gabel is covered in them as well
I saw a transgender MTF talk at a thing, and at that point of his transition he just looked and sounded like a man in a dress. (I don't know what pronoun to use for this person because at this point he seems still a man, but I suppose once the transition is known to have started the pronoun should change. Anyway, I mean no disrespect to call him "he," and that's not the point of my post.)
ReplyDeleteWhat struck me most of all was that his teenage daughter had her arms wrapped around him after the talk, and seemed completely at peace with her father being on his way to becoming a woman. I would not call her a "victim." If anything she is learning at a crucial age that it is important to be true to yourself, no matter the cost, and that knowledge will make her stronger. Most teenagers will do anything to fit in; she is learning first hand that it is more important to be what you know yourself to be, which has applications way beyond gender.
Jasimine no worries. I think we were all having a really good discussion on this matter. (gay marriage not transgender)
ReplyDeleteNow about Tom Gabel. I can see some points about why did he marry his wife ect.. but that is such a sticky messy goo of a situation. We are not privy to his thoughts, their real life and the relationship. Life is hard enough, they surely don't need me throwing judgment their way. I can only hope for them to be able to navigate this while being kind to eatch other.
About their child.. yes this will be quite a shock, however, if handled in a healthy way, hopefully the little one will find a new normal surrounded by loving parents.
For their marriage.. like I said above, I am not privy to their lives, I just hope they find what works best for them, while trying to be respectful and kind to each other.
Firstly, I looove Against Me! and I wish Laura and her wife the best of luck.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, I have read quite a few case studies about transgender relationships after the spouse has "come out" and made the transition. It CAN work. From what I've read, it can be very difficult, but with patience, love and communication, the relationship can still flourish. I think that, in this case, they have a good chance to make it specifically because she did discuss her feelings of gender dysphoria with her wife for years.
Btw, sex isnt just XX or XY, it's also XXY, XXX, XYY, or XO.