Monday, January 16, 2012
Your Turn
I asked this last night during he live blog, but thought I would throw it out to everyone to get your opinion. Last night, both Morgan Freeman and Woody Allen got awards. Which do you think is worse behavior? Woody Allen having sex with Soon Yi or Morgan Freeman having sex with his step-granddaughter?
Pretty equal in my book.
ReplyDeleteWoody Allen and his stepdaughter. Because he helped raise her. (Unless that's something in the Morgan Freeman case, too, which I haven't followed closely.) Also, it just seems to me to be more of a direct betrayal of WA's relationship with Soon-Yi's mom, Mia Farrell.
ReplyDeleteThe step-daughter, if I really have to choose, because he raised her. Thats's creepy.
ReplyDeleteThey both are sleazy...they both creep me out with that behavior. I have never been a Woody Allen fan, just not my taste. Now Morgan Freeman on the otherhand...I lost all sorts of respect for him.
ReplyDeleteBoth are gross
ReplyDeleteIts like comparing the devil to satan. Same disgusting thing. He saw her come out!! Was at her birth and helped raise her mom. And WA is Ugh! Both disgusting.
ReplyDeleteI think both situations are extremely sad. These men are sick and these girls/ladies are going to be sick in the head because of this.
ReplyDeleteThe House Of Yes, anyone?
Woody only because he married Soon Ye. If Morgan marries the step granddaughter which would solidify the relationship than they will become equal.
ReplyDeleteMorgan Freeman is worse.
ReplyDeleteAnd Woody DESERVED that award last nihgt. The screen play for Midnight in Paris is better than 3/4 of the fucking movies out there right now.
FACT.
Woody
ReplyDeleteI say they're equal. Getting with a young woman in your family is wrong, even if not blood related. Especially when you are supposed to be older and wiser. These cats may be old, but they sure as hell ain't wise.
ReplyDeleteBoth are creepy and weird. I like Freeman as an actor, but it stops there.
ReplyDeleteI watched Midnight In Paris a while back. I did not care for it.
They could be equal for me, too.
ReplyDeleteIf I had to pick, I suppose the Morgan sitch is a tad worse due to the perceived even wider age gap? Dunno.
I'm voting for Woody because he was for all intents and purposes her father. He raised her for how many years? That is just strange.
ReplyDeleteI have to pick?
ReplyDeleteI'd say Woody by a tiny smidge because he was her dad.
ReplyDeleteBoth are gross, but I vote Woody because he was in the role of "father." That's disgusting.
ReplyDeleteMy idol has feet of clay!
ReplyDeleteI googled to read up on the Morgan Freeman relationship because I didn't know much about it, and his step-granddaughter is the granddaughter of his first wife. He and his second wife raised her since she was a young girl. UGH!
I think Woody still edges out Morgan because
1) we don't know when their relationship started and if she was a minor
2) Woody was still in a relationship with Soon Yi's mother during his affair with Soon Yi (and Mia found out by finding nude photos of her daughter that Woody had taken)
3) He had other children with Mia Farrow, who considered Soon Yi their sister
They're both F&*king disgusting. And I'll watch neither of their films.
ReplyDeleteBoth have lost the right to call themselves moral men. I'll say Woody
ReplyDeleteby the tiniest of margins.
ParkerNosey - Soon-Yi was the adopted daughter of Mia Farrow and her previous husband, Andre Previn (her name was Soon-Yi Previn).
ReplyDeleteBoth are gross, but Woody is worse. Adopted or not, he was her father! That's disgusting. There is no biological - or imposed "biology" on the step-grand daughter, and they may not have been close in the "family" way. I don't know. I am not condoning either by ANY stretch. Both are pretty sick and wrong. But, as an adopted person, who has children and step-siblings, I see a big difference between adoption and step relationships, not just immediately, but also as they span generations. Nonetheless, over all vote for both is "ick. nast."
ReplyDeleteBoth gross me out. Freeman is a great actor, but all the fawning over him last night made me uncomfortable. He's been able to keep his dirty laundry pretty hidden, though. People don't talk about it the way they talk about Woody. Probably because Farrow lost her shit about it...and rightly so.
ReplyDeleteOh Mango! (Why am I think of Chris Kattan all of a sudden?!) I didn't know Morgan Freeman RAISED the step-granddaughter, since she were a little girl?! Okay, they are both f*cking sick. Both are tantamount to a father having a sexual relationship with their DAUGHTER! Blood means nothing to kids. Adopted, bio - whatever, that's your DAD. If Morgan raised her, step this, grand-daughter that, NO - to the girl, he's the father. Same with Woody. SICK, SICK, SICK. Damnit - Roman Polaski SICK!
ReplyDeleteSince neither murdered or raped anyone I can't judge beyond them being dirty old men....but Soon Yi was far from innocent.
ReplyDeleteAnd Woody is one of my favorites as is Morgan...
@MISCH - statutory rape could be involved.
ReplyDeleteLast night I initially said Woody but now I think both are equally bad.
I know Soon Yi was over 18, and she wanted to get away from Mia and the house full of sibs that she was helping to raise...she is one smart or sly cookie..depending on how you look at it. Could I do something like that to a parent never.
ReplyDeleteI never payed much attention to Morgan's little sweetie.
Both are so repulsive I can't bear to think about them. Probably equally sick.
ReplyDeleteconsenting adults over the legal age, who cares. creepy yes, but none are related by blood.
ReplyDeleteBoth are disgusting. Who cares if they are related by blood or not. It is incest. Both these men raised these girls. I don't care if they are adopted, non-blood etc. They are also NOT consenting adults due to the uneven power relationships between the men and women. They are fathers to them, older, and more powerful. These girls didn't have a chance. Bastards, hope their dicks come off.
ReplyDeleteboth are pedophile esque. gross and grosser.
ReplyDeleteIn both instances, there are no blood ties. Just the ties of decency, and obligation of an older man willingly taking on the role of father or grandfather. Inherent in that role is restraint and respect for the young women in their care. Shop elsewhere. Soon Yi was adopted by Mia Farrow before she married Woody, I believe. I'm not sure if he adopted Soon Yi as well, but that's beside the point. I don't know if it's entitlement, no boundaries, lack of respect, but both instances are inappropriate. If I had to choose, I would say Woody's relationship to Soon Yi is worse. Even if he couldn't wrap his head around the fact that technically she was his daughter and therefore in his care, she was his partner's daughter. Just all kinds of inappropriate. And taking nude pictures of her when she was still in his home as a daughter, and he was still in the role of a father to her, and a husband/partner to Mia Farrow. He abused her. There is no getting around that. I have concern for his children with Soon Yi. Where has he shown that he knew what appropriate was, or that he had any self-restraint. Hollywood seems to have no problem getting around it when it comes to furthering their career by starring in one of his movies. Where is the outrage there and the boycott? I don't get it. It was and is child abuse. Again I say, shop elsewhere. Have an affair, hire a prostitute. Don't abuse your children or anyone else's children. As for Morgan Freeman, I was trying to remember last night what I had read about him and couldn't remember. I was just thinking how much I loved him and what a good actor he is. Great actor. But I'm sorry, the same rules apply. Decency comes before self-satisfaction. And respect for a girl or young woman and not schewing her concept of what is right and wrong. There are boundaries one should not step over. If I had to choose, though, I would say that the Woody Allen situation was worse, because she was in his home not under the auspices but actually as his daughter, and under his protection. He not only did not protect her, he exploited her for his own gratification. Thus betraying her, his partner, and his other children. All because he couldn't or didn't restrain himself. They are both wrong.
ReplyDeleteTherese: how eloquently put. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteWorse for Woody. And it sucks, because I loved his early stuff, I still refer to it frequently, and I haven't seen one second of anything he's done since this became public.
ReplyDeleteThere was a book written by Mia Farrow's hired nanny and she wrote that for the most part Woody wasn't actively involved in many of the children's lives. Woody didn't raise Soon-Yi. He started taking her to ball games at the insistence of Mia because Soon-yi was having difficulties with boys and the other Farrow kids did not get along with her. From there - whatever developed between the two developed. This is what the nanny wrote in her book anyway.
ReplyDeleteHere's the book:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/Mia-Woody-Betrayal-Kristine-Groteke/dp/0786700661
Equal- and Midnight in Paris was lame.
ReplyDeleteMaybe most are unaware of this, not that is excuses his behavior because I find it deplorable, but Woody and Mia did not live together. During their relationship (never married) they maintained separate residences. HOWEVER, I am sure he has no trouble considering Mischa, Mallone and Sachel his children why would her other adopted children be any less?
ReplyDeleteI think they are both gross, but Woody totally creeps me out and didn't he raiser Soon Yi as his own. YUCK.
ReplyDeleteI don't see either of them being quite as bad as Polanski; these young women were older, and--let's be blunt--as far as we know, anal rape after being drugged w/Quaaludes doesn't seem to have been involved in these cases--but that doesn't mean it isn't still deeply icky...after all, just because something is legal doesn't make it the right thing to do.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that...I remember catching a clip from a documentary on Woody (Wild Man Blues, perhaps), where he was muddling through whatever he was doing while Soon-Yi was bossing him around, and there was just something about the look in her eye that made me blurt out "Oh my God, she got EXACTLY what she wanted!" It was this total cat-that-ate-the-canary, self-satisfied expression--that's the best way I can describe it. Based on what little I've read about the whole sordid business, she had a lot of resentment towards Mia for whatever reasons (having to look after all the younger sibs, being lost in the shuffle of a large family, it being suggested that she was mentally deficient, etc.), and while I don't think she led him on or seduced him per se, I do suspect that, when he started expressing his (highly inappropriate) interest in her, she grabbed that ball and ran with it as fast and as long as she could. She got out of the house, into a position where she was the center of attention, and what better way to totally f*ck over your mother than to make off with her boyfriend, so that she not only as to deal w/losing him, but losing him to a much younger woman who also happens to be her daughter? IIRC, one of Mia's reactions on learning about the affair was to smash something (I keep thinking a chair) over Soon-Yi's head--that's not something you do with your daughter; that's something you do to your rival. Woody was definitely thinking w/the wrong head in ways he never should have, and it just walked him right into the middle of a truly twisted mother/daughter dynamic; if he hadn't been such a sleazehound at that point, one could almost feel a little sorry for him, because dollars to donuts, I'll bet you Soon-Yi runs that household with the proverbial iron fist, and he knows it, and knows he can't back out even if he wanted to, because he'd go from being a creep to being a foolish old man, one who got totally pwned by a much younger woman who's now got him totally by the nuts. Again, it's almost enough to make you a little sorry for him...almost.
^has to deal...sorry about that.
ReplyDeleteI said Morgan last night but I didn't realize Morgan's was a step grand daughter. Both are gross. Can't pick. Tie for inappropriateness.
ReplyDeleteAbout equal.
ReplyDeleteBut at the same time, for those who say they won't watch their stuff - I feel like if you dismiss the work of artists that are great because they turned out to be morally weak or even repugnant...aren't you just cheating yourself?
I just can't see my enjoyment of any music, movie, whatever as an endorsement of the people who made it as morally upright.
Sadly, it's just not uncommon for "great men" to be kinda pathetic human beings. I love people like this, tbqh - but I just keep them well clear of my personal life!
Robin- WOW. Have never heard that take on the whole Woody/Soon-Yi thing.
ReplyDeleteYour insight is appreciated (especially as a fan of his movies who has had some guilt about supporting him in this way)
Thanks!!!
Both are repugnant to me now! That really saddens me because I've liked Morgan since he was in the Electric Company.
ReplyDeleteI've never commented here before, but I feel like people are woefully ignorant of the details of Woody Allen and Mia Farrow's relationship. I apologize in advance for the length, but it seems important to me to explain.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason I'm aware of all of this was because I watched the news when the legal battle was going on. Maybe most of you are too young to remember it, or you just don't care.
Everyone assumes that he was a parental figure to Soon Yi. He was not. She was adopted by Mia Farrow (along with many, many other children), and Andre Previn.
Woody Allen has always been a bit of a recluse; introverted, shy, and eccentric. His relationship with Mia Farrow lasted for several years, but they were never married, they never lived together, even after they had kids together (one biological, one adopted, I think).
He has zero relationship with those kids because, even though they were very young when all this happened, Mia Farrow made sure to let them know that their father "slept with their sister."
One of the kids hates his dad and refuses to ever talk to him. Mia Farrow even had the son's name legally changed. She also went so far as to coach the daughter to claim Allen touched her inappropriately. The psychologist in the case said it was plainly obvious the daughter was coached to say it, but Allen still lost any and all rights to his actual kids.
Sadly, he was completely uninvolved with any of Mia Farrow's other kids, including Soon Yi.
My point isn't just that Woody Allen hasn't always tended to make poor choices when it comes to love and relationships, but that he didn't "molest his daughter." I am really, really tired of hearing people make these claims. Before you call someone a child molester or pedophile, you should be damn sure you know the circumstances.
While I think pedos are the worst form of life, there are also many people who go to prison because a girl's parents didn't like a boy she was dating. When the boy turned 18, and the girl was still 16 or whatever, the parents might have the boy picked up for statutory rape. And there's nothing the consenting female can do about it. It's the law. I'm glad we have laws to protect innocent young women and girls and boys from being taken advantage of, our revulsion over the idea of a much older person with a much younger person leads us to make instant judgments about the nature of said relationship.
Soon Yi was a legal, consenting adult who encouraged the relationship with Allen. She said, to think he was any sort of father figure to her was laughable.
Is it weird? Skeevy? A little gross? Sure. Illegal? Molestation? No. Please don't make assumptions about people based on hearsay.
Something about those pics Woody took of Soon Yi just grosses me the eff out.
ReplyDeleteMorgan also had that car accident where he broke his arm and was in the car with a woman who was not his wife, was that the step grand daughter?
Im usually live and let live, but sometimes there is a line that when crossed, bothers most everyone. A sexual relationship with a family member, blood related or not, several decades your junior, is one of those lines.
Courtney, I was just about to comment but you said it all better than I could, and we are in total agreement. It's also interesting to note what Robin mentioned.
ReplyDelete@Robin & Courtney - I never paid much attention to the court case but that definitely puts things into perspective. I still think it's a little odd, but not to the level I thought before.
ReplyDeleteThe stepdaughter,because Woody raised her from when she was little...though they're both pretty messed up situations.
ReplyDeleteBefore anyone jumps to Woody Allen's defense, saying he didn't molest his daughter, read the Vanity Fair article - the "daughter" in question isn't Soon-Yi: http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1992/11/farrow199211
ReplyDeleteAnd then study the current photos of him with his adoptive daughter:
http://www.celebitchy.com/196852/woody_allens_son_disgusted_by_his_dad_marrying_his_sister_wont_talk_to_him/
I used to LOVE Morgan Freeman, and really liked some Woody Allen films, but am now grossed out by both.
@Gretta: It is important to find outside sources for this case before making a judgment. The ones you noted are either directly from Mia Farrow, or from her immediate family. The headline of the article is "Mia's Story." So, not super objective.
ReplyDeleteIt's also important to note that, just prior to finding out about Allen and Soon-Yi's relationship, Farrow had called him an "exemplary co-parent" of their own kids.
The business about his inappropriate behavior with Dylan is *most likely* a false claim in order to punish him and remove his ability to see his children. She succeeded in that. She most likely coached Dylan to make claims (the child was only 7), and videotaped her doing so, and wanted to use that as evidence to get $7 million in child support from Allen, as well as removing any sort of parental ability from him. In other words, he and his lawyers claimed Farrow's lawyers suggested he cough up seven million dollars, and she wouldn't pursue action in court where she would make claims he was a child molester.
In 1993, a TEAM of child abuse investigators from the Yale-New Haven hospital CLEARED Allen of any sort of sexual abuse regarding his daughter, Dylan.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/19/nyregion/woody-allen-says-report-clears-him.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
I have absolutely NO IDEA what kind of parent Allen actually is. All I know is, through watching and reading about the court case while it was going on, I remember thinking how unfair it is to use the pedophile card on someone to punish him. It is the easiest, nastiest, dirtiest way to control a situation.
The other article you posted has photos of Allen holding hands with his daughter with Soon-Yi, and I'm not 100% sure how that's inappropriate. Soon-Yi was never his kid, in any respect, so I can only assume you were referring to the actual kid in the photos.
If I am "jumping to Woody's defense," it is only because the details of what happened are marred by collective disgust over the perceived relationship he had with Soon-Yi. According to both of them -- there was none. His son has a right to his feelings, but it's entirely possible part of his opinions come from Mia Farrow's intentional poisoning of Ronan/Satchel/Moses (I'm not sure what his original name was) against his dad.
I have know several people whose kids were molested or violated in some way by a person who was close to them. Nothing ever came of those situations and it disgusts me. I also know of at least one woman who claimed an ex was molesting her daughter when he wasn't. She got him to pay her a few hundred grand from a settlement he received when he was put in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. He was afraid of spending his life in prison because he knew how people would react to a molestation claim. This woman told him she was coaching the child to say how he'd touched her. So he paid up.
When someone gets away with sexually abusing a person without defense, I am horrified. But when someone takes advantage of people's disgust and revulsion over pedophilia in order to advance his or her own agenda, it's almost worse.
Woody Allen is NOT a saint. I would offer that he's a sad and lonely man and his actions brought a lot of this on himself. I don't feel sorry for him, exactly, but I do wish that, were it me in this kind of a situation, the entire world wouldn't assume that my ex's claims were true right off the bat.