Penn State football coach Joe Paterno is going to retire at the end of the season. I think he should quit now or be fired now. I don't think you owe him anything. Yes he has been a coach at Penn State forever, but this is a man who could have stopped almost 15 years of boys being molested and did nothing. In case you have not been following the story, his former defensive coordinator, Jerry Sandusky, has been charged with sexually abusing at least eight boys over a 15 year period. In 1998, a graduate assistant at Penn State saw Sandusky molesting a boy and reported it to Joe Paterno who did not do anything but tell HR. Nothing else. He felt no obligation to follow up or to wonder why a boy was being molested in the football locker room. I don't know why he should be allowed to retire on his terms when the boys who were abused had no say and no support from him.
The OSU coach had to quit over tatoos being exchanged for sports memorabilia by players. I'd say this is way worse.
ReplyDeleteAnd why, exactly, are there underage boys in a college football locker room. I don't get that part.
I saw on the news this morning how swarms of students are rallying around him... I wonder how many of those students were crying foul when the Catholic church was protecting its child molesters. Apparently, if someone brings skill to the sports world, they are less accountable for moral obligations.
ReplyDeleteThis may be an unpopular opinion, but why the hell should Joe Paterno resign? It wasn't him who did the molesting - it was a coach on his squad. He reported the incident to HR when he learned of it. Isn't that what all managers are supposed to do?! Fire the jerks in HR who didn't do their jobs! The allegations should have been immediately investigated *by HR*, and appropriate action taken. Joe Paterno is hired to manage a team on the field. HR is hired to look out for the interests of employees, and it's *their* job to handle sexual molestation claims.
ReplyDeleteActually, the GA saw Sandusky molesting the young boy in 2002. But there have been suspicions about Sandusky's activities since 1998, when Centre County investigated his activities with one young man; the boy's mom said that Sandusky admitted the crime, but the investigation never found any concrete evidence of his activities. Interestingly enough, Sandusky retired a year later, after allegedly being told by Paterno that he would never succeed him as Penn State's head coach. Given that the official reasons for retirements and firings almost never line up with the unstated (and real reasons), you can figure that Paterno suspected that Sandusky was the kind of guy with whom you don't leave grandsons (or anyone else).
ReplyDeleteThis disgusting state of affairs proves that people are more apt to remembering their loyalties than to being moral human beings.
I bet if it was Joe's grandson he would have gone to the police instead of HR.
ReplyDeleteI agree that he should be fired now. How many fewer victims would there be if he had gone to the police and followed up on this? That is a troubling thought for a lot of people I am sure. As much as I love Football, there are more important things in life than a winning team. I will be praying for the victims and their families.
ReplyDeleteWell, Seachica, in the world of college sports, Paterno is the most-important man, the real boss of Penn State's athletic operations. Sure, he technically had a boss (who is now indicted on perjury charges related to this case). But the coach of the most-important team on campus is the one that really calls the shots. If Joe Pa wanted to deal with this the right way, he could have bypassed the official channels and went to the cops. Which is what he and the GA should have done.
ReplyDeleteOne suspects that by the time this saga is over, we will hear more about other unsavory aspects of Paterno's long tenure -- and why Sandusky was allowed to be a predator for so long. I suspect the latter has a lot to do with the former.
Yep, no surprise there. As well he should.
ReplyDeleteHe besmirched his illustrious career by participating in a massive cover-up of the RAPE of children.
They are all fucked up there now!
That whole town is ALL ABOUT the football. People freaking RETIRE there just for it!
Reporters tried over the years to investigate and they were always shut down.
Even the lowliest janitor, however, had an obligation to not just tell the "boss" but to go tell the POLICE ffs.
...Which begs the question--how many times WERE the police told and they themselves turned a blind eye? Or how many of any/everybody were paid hush-up money to not pursue the matter?
This will go deep.
I just read on TMZ that he quit. I hope that he is not used as a scapegoat to divert attention from the other people involved. He reported what the graduate student told him to his supervisor/HR - and they did nothing about it!!! He is very guilty in all of this, but I want to see the others brought to justice as well. Why isn't the graduate student getting scrutinized for not going to the police, after all he was the one who witnessed this? I also haven't read about the supervisors and if they are also under investigation and what the charges are against them. This whole thing just makes me so angry.
ReplyDelete@Patty, the office gang was wondering why there were so many children hanging around also. After a little research we came up with a few organizations for kids Penn State football/coaches are involved with. Underprivileged and unsupervised? If they had been children of other staff members something would have done much sooner and the police would have been called.
ReplyDeleteJoe should have left years ago.
ITA, Blueberry. EVERYone who saw ANYthing had a legal and moral obligation to tell the GD police, IMO.
ReplyDeleteWTF???
would it of been handeled different if he had been molesting girls?
ReplyDeleteThis is all about protecting an ivy league college reputation and keeping it quiet.
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ReplyDeleteWell, Blueberry, the titular bosses -- the athletic director and VP of finance (who ran the campus police department) -- are indicted on perjury charges; the latter resigned on Sunday. But one has to always remember that in college sports, the coach of the most-important team is the real boss. Not the president, not even the athletic director, but the head coach. And Paterno was the biggest player at Penn State. He defined the school's image as a moral, upright institution. So he has to go. If anything, he (along with the GA, who now coaches the team's wideouts) should be indicted himself for failing to report the abuse.
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, the GA, Mike McQueary is going to get his. He won't keep his job in the new coaching regime. While I'm happy he finally stood up and testified against Sandusky (and will do so again during his trial), he should have called the cops a long time ago. Understandably hard when it means facing the wrath of an entire campus and its football machinery. But doing the right thing isn't supposed to be easy.
Proof again that power, bravery, and morality are not mutually inclusive.
This just makes me sick. Any one of those people, the grad student who saw something but just left the building instead of stopping the assault, Paterno who was told of it, and the two guys "above" him who were told, SHOULD HAVE CALLED THE COPS.
ReplyDeleteThere is no way to rationalize "Maybe he mis-interpreted what he saw." That grad student very clearly saw a nasty old man having anal sex with a little boy. There is a moral obligation there that all of these guys failed at completely.
The other thing that makes me sick? The "managers" who were told about it and decided not to go to police, thought that the appropriate action was to take away Sandusky's keys to the facility.
@timebob...Penn State isn't Ivy Leauge.
ReplyDeleteThere are at least three villians here per the Grand Jury's findings:
Sandusky, the child rapist
"The Janitor," who witnessed Sandusky giving an 8-year-old a blow job and DID NOTHING.
Mike McQueary, the then 28-year-old former QB who walked in on Sandusky anally raping a 10-year-old and WALKED AWAY rather than stopping him and chose on the advice of his father, a DOCTOR, to simply report it to Paterno.
That McQueary and "The Janitor" are still employed is beyond me.
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ReplyDeleteAnd the thing is, Feisty, that they couldn't even do that legally because Sandusky's status as an emeritus professor gave him access to all of the university's facilities. Sandusky still hosted events for little boys at Penn State's other campuses in spite of the ban at Happy Valley until 2009. So that ban was useless.
ReplyDeleteUltimately, all these aiders and abettors will find a special place in hell. I'd say God have mercy on their souls. But they don't deserve it.
oh right I mixed it up with
ReplyDeleteUniversity of Pennsylvania
Jazzbaby, I agree with you. McQuery seems to be getting such a pass in all of this, when he was an actual EYEWITNESS! He is a 6'4" former athlete who should have easily been able to stop what he walked in on. Instead, he called his dad and then went to Paterno. Why?? And why isn't he catching flack for not following up with anyone after reporting everything to both Paterno and the AD? Paterno is getting the blame for being the face of the university but he did not actually witness anything happening, and just passed along what he was told. As much as we all like to think we would do something differently if faced with a similar situation, if we are told that something will be taken care of, many people would believe that. Now, obviously it was not taken care of and he should have followed up with someone and called the police, but again, all he knew was what McQuery was witness to.
ReplyDeleteIt's also an interesting coincidence that the DA who declined to press charges back in 1998 has been missing since 2005. Probably not related, but still find it interesting.
I also wanted to add that I don't understand why they would continue to try to cover up for Sandusky in 2002 when he wasn't even a part of the program anymore. That doesn't make any sense to me. Reading the Grand Jury report, it's clear that the AD and head of police didn't really care what Sandusky was doing so long as it wasn't on Penn State's campus (hence the unenforceable ban). But It seems ridiculous to me that they did not report it at that time.
ReplyDeletePaterno should be fired. The president of the university should be fired (I understand the trustees are meeting today & tomorrow). EVERY person who worked in the football program should be thoroughly investigated and fired if necessary.
ReplyDeleteI understand a lot of college crime is covered up by college security instead of being reported to police (I'm talking about all colleges here, not just Penn) - perhaps it's time to stop this practice and any time something illegal happens on campus, involve the police, not just campus security. It's sickening to see so many crimes (rape, theft, etc) covered up by campus security in order to ensure the good name of the school.
Whereas I understand the anger that people feel towards Joe Paterno, he NEVER witnessed the crime itself, he was told about it by McQuery. Ultimately this ALL falls on the guys in HR who did not report the information to the cops and that scumbag Sandusky who actually molested those children. I hope he is anally raped in jail with a rusty pipe and broken wooden broomstick.
ReplyDeletePennState is not Ivy League, BTW; that's University of Pennsylvania. Just FWIW.
ReplyDeleteThanks for all the info Sevenmack :)
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm slightly relieved to hear that the others are being somewhat held accountable. I'm going to read up on this some more. I do agree with Liz and Jazzbaby that some of the others involved are a lot more guilty than Paterno, but of course since he is the head coach it makes sense that the spotlight is on him. I'm curious to see how this whole thing plays out...
Oh gotcha. I only knew cuz my Bro went to PennSt for grad school and no way our parents could afford Ivy League :)
ReplyDeleteOh my GOD, I did not know all the details & what all the witnesses saw. This makes me absolutely SICK. I think everyone who knew should be held accountable, including Joe P. Who cares if he didn't witness it??? He knew it was going on!!! I know the world of college football is a dirty one, but covering up something this big to me is unbelievable.
ReplyDeleteJoe P is that university & he should have done more. Now instead of leaving with dignity, this is what he'll be remembered for.
So fucked up on so many levels. Joe Paterno is god in State College, PA.
ReplyDeleteEvery single person involved, from the top down, should be OUT ON HIS GODDAMN ASS YESTERDAY.
Everything about this case is so sketchy. A DA "disappeared." Here's a timeline from NPR.
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/08/142111804/penn-state-abuse-scandal-a-guide-and-timeline
Joe Pa goes into homes and asks parents to trust him with their child. How scary is that??? I hope they all rot in hell.
ReplyDeleteWhen Joe himself says 'I wish I had done more' you know he is guilty as hell. He should be fired immediately with charges brought against him.
ReplyDeleteI agree with those calling for the players to refuse to take the field this weekend if JoePa is there.
/very sickened and disappointed Pennsylvania girl
I'm only parroting what some others have said re: Paterno.
ReplyDeleteWhile, yes, he didn't witness the crime, he has more power/prestige than almost anyone at that school. Including the president. I believe the school wanted him to "retire" about a decade ago but Paterno refused. Obviously, he has a LOT more influence than the average university employee.
And I don't think it should just fall on his shoulders, but I do believe he should have done more.
(Semi-related topic:) I am equally disgusted by Neil Bortz today on conservative talk radio hosts saying that all women "have a chip on their shoulders" and that no sexual harassment cases are real...that Herman Cain could not have come onto any women.
ReplyDeleteAND (on topic:) one of the schmucks said yesterday that "the media" are only picking on JoePa because he is old.
Swear to God.
I used to almost somewhat like Neil Bortz but he can fuck off now.
I hate to judge what people did or didn't do in this situation because everyone has different reactions to things. However, I don't know how you see a kid being raped and just go home like you found two adults making out in the broom closet. It's crazy how people don't do anything about anything these days.
ReplyDeleteThe good ole' boys network of football and its inner workings have always nauseated me. This situation, of course, takes it to a whole new level.
ReplyDeleteTo say this was handled poorly is the understatement of the century. I do think Joe Pa should retire. I do think the outrage should be directed more ferociously to the men who witnessed these acts and chose to report it to the school rather than police. The fact is Joe Paterno learned of these things second hand. I mean, I don't understand why he didn't advise the grad student to call police. But seriously, when I hear Joe Pa speak, he seems like a crazy old guy. Why is he the voice of reason for these grownass men? The vigils on Joe Pa's front lawn disgust me. Honestly, the focus should be on the victims and not a stupid sport. Yeah. I know football is Penn State's cash cow, but Jesus, the reporting on this is making me stabby. It's so fucked up that it's turning into a pro-Joe Pa anti-Joe Pa story.
If you read the Grand Jury Document you will earn that Paterno knew about anal sex in teh shower between the perp/perv and a ten year old whom thy have not been able to identify. The odd twist is that the DA refused to prosecute him in 1998 even though he had him on tape admitting to the crime. That DA disappeared in 2005 and has not been seen since. i think there are a lot more pedos invovled in this.
ReplyDeleteWhat Cathy said.
ReplyDelete"Every single person involved, from the top down, should be OUT ON HIS GODDAMN ASS YESTERDAY. "
^ And this
burn them all at the stake. fucking disgusting humans. all those boys should sue the school & all of these dickheads... they will make bank.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wish Enty would leave stories like this alone, he made some crucial errors in this story.
ReplyDeletePaterno did not report the incident to HR. Please, he probably doesn't even know where their office is. He's fucking Joe Paterno, the god of State College. I'm sure he only acknowledges the AD and the college President as worthy of his attention. He reported it to the AD, and then he went on about his business of chasing money. Paterno washed his hands of this 'unpleasantness' for the sake of convenience, and for that stunning failure of character he needs to be fired, along with Mike McCreary, who should be brought up on charges (and sued by the family of that boy if he is ever identified).
This story just reinforces why I despise professional team sports and the culture around them, and this includes the big money college sports. This culture would cover up a murder if meant hurting their bottom line by two cents.
As for the students at Penn State rallying around the gutless Paterno, I hope its a minority. If its a majority, then that school just needs to be nuked. Sickening.
Hopefully, life for Paterno after he steps down ends up like this:
ReplyDeleteIn January, Paterno dies, broken by the reality that he couldn't leave on his own terms, and haunted by the visions of the young men Sandusky molested who could have been saved from damage by Paterno's intervention.
The evil blowhard drops dead of a heart attack after the latest haunting, alone in the house, unable to reach his LifeAlert bracelet. The death was entirely preventable. But God has a funny way of getting justice.
At his funeral, one young man molested by Sandusky appears and urinates on his casket. After the burial, some folks come to disinter his corpse, break his tombstone into pieces, then burn Paterno's corpse for sport.
And once Paterno enters hell, he is greeted Satan, who, as a Michigan fan, serves up to Paterno in eternal torment what he missed out in life: Coaching a team that never wins, and suffering even worse after every loss.
@ FS - I live in South Jersey so my news comes TV news comes from Philadelphia. Tons of people from this area go to Penn State, so the local coverage is very heavy. Anyway, there were massive crowds of tearful college students holding up signs and crusading for Paterno. It was so surreal. My husband and I were horrified at watching this.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I have read others opinions on the 'net that chain of command was followed and people reported incidents to who they were supposed to report things - but damn this isn't a case or someone smoking pot or getting a gift for picking Penn State. This is a horrible life altering soul taking crime against a defenseless boy(many boys) and the police should have been involved first thing. I can honestly say if I had witnessed it i would have dialed 911 on my cell as i was heading into the shower to protect the boy and kick the shit out of sandusky - jobs be damned. I sure as hell wouldn't be reporting it to my boss and walking away from the responsibility of what I had witnessed.
ReplyDeleteMakes me sick. If it were the mayor or the chief of police, you better believe those people would be calling for his head on a stick. But because Paterno brings their precious school notoriety (and $$$), he's above it all. Fuck that shit.
ReplyDeleteI am so sickened by this and the people involved. I hope they all get charged for aiding and abetting, (the ones who knew of it) they should have reported it to the POLICE, wth is wrong with those people? And, yes I hope beyond hope there is a special place in hell for people who abuse children. I also saw the people standing behind the coach on last nights news and was sickened by those players too.
ReplyDeleteJust as an FYI that some people seem to be missing, the 2002 incident was in fact reported to both the AD and the head of the campus police (the two men who have been indicted in the cover up). Now, I did not go to Penn State and I do not know the details about jurisdiction, etc. but if the person heading up the campus police knew about this and did not launch a full-on investigation, that is much more problematic in my mind than Paterno not pushing the issue. Perhaps by reporting it to Gary Schultz, he believed that he WAS reporting it to the police. That could very well NOT be the case, but a lot of this is all speculation at this point, and the Grand Jury report did not find any evidence that Paterno had more information than he passed along.
ReplyDeleteAgain, this whole story is absolutely awful and it's clear that everyone was just passing the buck and washing their hands and not wanting to be involved, but I think some of the vitriol (see Sevenmack's random death wish of Joe Paterno) is a bit uncalled for.
Now, Liz, I'll admit my last set of thoughts were rather vitriolic. For that, I'll partly apologize. But, as someone who done volunteer work helping foster kids -- who have so many issues to deal with -- those who victimize kids, especially those who have no one to protect them, are vile people and deserve some nastiness. So do the good men and women who do nothing. And Paterno is clearly in the latter.
ReplyDeleteAnd honestly, Liz, let's say it again: On every college campus with a Division 1A team, the coach of the biggest team on the campus is the real power. Essentially, the AD works for Paterno in reality, not the other way around. The now-former AD is getting his just desserts. Paterno is getting off relatively easy in comparison; he's not facing any prison time.
ReplyDeletePaterno could have done far more than he should. And the fact he didn't is just shameful. There's no way around it.
Child rape is 'uncalled for'.
ReplyDeleteI don't see that you have anything to apologize for Sevenmack. I understand your venom and vitriole entirely, I've been feeling the same way since Sunday.
This was CHILD RAPE and they did nothing. CHILD RAPE CHILD RAPE CHILD RAPE. How do people not get this? Paterno washed his hands of it out of selfishness and cowardice. He has no character, no integrity, no moral fortitude. I don't care who he told. He sacrificed that child and every one that came after him.
FIRE EVERYONE
I definitely agree that Paterno had much more power than Curly, particularly since he was the one who brought Curly to the school. And as I said, it was obvious that everyone was just passing the buck and not wanting to be involved. But I also think Paterno was in a difficult situation in that he was told this information, and was not a first hand witness. Of course he could have pushed the issue, and I also believe he should have if Sandusky was still hanging around campus, but I have a much bigger issue with McQuery as a witness who at minimum should have been following up and calling the police himself, but somehow he seems to be getting a pass in all of this.
ReplyDelete@Liz...just because you're not hearing about McQueary right now doesn't mean he's being given a pass by anyone but USA Today. The university didn't fire Paterno; he stepped aside himself. It's being reported that the Board of Trustees will have a decision on Graham Spanier within the hour. McQueary is next.
ReplyDeleteI'm joining this discussion a bit late, but just adding my voice to say ditto that Paterno should be fired NOW and there is no excuse for not reporting or even following up on a child rape crime.
ReplyDeletePlease let's not defend those who are capable of defending themselves, but rather those whose are the real victims here.
I truly hope these victims come forward/ or sue Penn State football program for all it's got.
He reported it to the AD and head of campus police...he didnt just turn a blind eye. could he have done more? maybe. But he did report it to people that he thought were better equipped to deal with the suituation.
ReplyDeleteThe chain of command at PSU begins and ends with Joe Paterno. It seems to me his announcing when he's going to leave falss right into his "l'etat c'est moi" mind set. I bet no ose tries to call his bluff and make him retire.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree that the big reveal is yet to come and that there are more men involved in the abuse of children at PSU.
And what about the former DA who vanishedninto thin air?
Y'all are probably right that there are more abusers who will be revealed in the coming weeks. Because that seems to be the only way this situation was able to last for so long. Just like the Catholic Church. I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like this comes out at other universities. But that's the cynic in my talking. I hope I'm wrong.
ReplyDeleteI agree that everyone from janitors on up should have been blowing whistles all day long - HOWEVER, Paterno was the only one who had an untouchable power and ability to stop this. The fact that he "talked to HR" and let it go at that was a real cop out.
ReplyDeletePretty much anyone on the totem pole beneath him had a lot more to lose if they upset the balance, that's why they looked to their superiors. I am sure that haunts those that tried to do something, but it is more understandable.
This is standard practice on college campuses. Although, the rape is usually of young women instead of children. The police are never called. It's obscene.
ReplyDeleteI have inside knowledge about this that I just found out today in class!!!
ReplyDeleteSo my professor got his PHD and taught at Penn State and only just moved to Cali a year or so ago. So he told us today that there were whisperings for a long time that Sandusky was creepy- he founded 9mile or whatever that org was called. Turns out it was really to choose his child victims- sick fuck.
Well back in 2004 when he was caught anally raping the 10 year old, the person who caught him went to his own father who told him not to go to the police but too tell Paw Jo (paterno), so he did.
THIS IS THE REASON WHY JOE PATERNO SHOULD BE FIRED:::
The person who caught Sandusky molesting the boy told Paterno "I saw Jerry anally raping a 10 yr old boy"
Paterno in turn reported it to an administrator and he said "Jerry was caught HORSING AROUND with a kid"
And it was, thusly, not taken as seriously perhaps as if say the fucking words ANALLY RAPED were used.
It was swept under the rug and Jerry continued to rape children up to 2009.
Do I hold Joe partially responsible for that- you bet your ass I do.
*btw- justice will at least be served in some way.
ReplyDeleteI've heard the President of Penn State will be resigning tonight if not tomorrow (in an effort to avoid being fired).
Moosh- there actually WAS rape involving young women and men on the football team. But similar perhaps to why this was swept under the rug, in that town Penn State and football are untouchable.
ReplyDeleteMy professor said 3 women came at separate times to him reporting assault from the football team and he did everything in his power to get the guys prosecuted. Because he reported it to the police the men were legally charged BUT at Penn State NOTHING happened to them, the administrators ignored my professor's repeated attempts to bring the men up on this.
WHY OH WHY DOES FOOTBALL equal this level of bullshit!?! Fuck organized sports.
Jasmine, thank you for your insider info.
ReplyDeleteI just feel so badly for the children who were hurt in all of this.
oh good. another story that everyone is going to need to share an opinion about....
ReplyDeleteTwo words, Sevenmack...Failed Screenwriter. That is all.
ReplyDeleteWhat FS and Stacey Charter said.
ReplyDeleteWell, sussique, I'm not trying to get into screenwriting. I make better coin than the average screenwriter anyway. But thanks for reading.
ReplyDelete