I am constantly amazed at how crazy some parents can be. Apparently though there is a group of parents who have decided the best way to immunize their children against chicken pox is not be getting a shot, but rather joining a club where parents send chicken pox infected lollipops through the mail to get other kids naturally immune to chicken pox. Seriously? Absolutely. According to KPHO in Phoenix there are multiple Facebook groups now called Find A Pox Party In Your Area. Parents get together and infect their children with children pox. Can't make a party? Don't worry. You can get infect lollipops in the mail delivered right to your house. Never mind that there might be something else besides chicken pox on the lollipop. You know, like hepatitis. Who does this kind of thing?
OMG
ReplyDeletePeople disgust me.
I knew parents still exposed their kids to infected kids instead of the shot and THAT blows my mind.
This???? Good God.
Because suffering through chicken pox for two weeks is always better than getting protection.
ReplyDeleteThis is what happens when people listen to nutcases such as Jenny McCarthy and the daughter of U.S. Congressman Dan Burton, who wrongly argue that immunizations cause autism. And they are aided and abetted by false studies such as that of Andrew Wakefield, whose false research started all this poppycock (http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-02/health/lancet.retraction.autism_1_andrew-wakefield-mmr-vaccine-and-autism-general-medical-council?_s=PM:HEALTH).
ReplyDeleteSeriously, folks need to stop playing doctor with their kids and just go to a real physician for some shots.
Aside from sending chicken pox through the mail, this sounds like what everyone did back in the day. If one kid got chicken pox our parents would send us over to their house so we would get infected. Better to get it in your youth than when you are older.
ReplyDeleteJust do the goddamned shot! I know many, many people who had such terrible cases of the chicken pox before the vaccine was around who would have given ANYTHING to get the vaccine instead! WTF is wrong with people?
ReplyDeleteI never had the chicken pox and it scares the heck out of me. I had the vaccine and it did not take and had to have it again. I knew a grown woman who died from chicken pox-related pneumonia.
ReplyDeleteWonder what the US Postal Service thinks about random people sending candies laced with chicken pox through the mail?
ReplyDeleteWhy would you knowingly let your child get sick and suffer when there is a way to prevent it? That is just nuts? I got the chicken pox when I was 24, full blown, pox everywhere, nightmare chicken pox and it was AWFUL!!!! I wish there was a vaccine when I was younger. Got both my kids vaccinated and they are just fine thank you very much. These parents are just insane.
ReplyDeleteI don't really understand the hate for these parents. Not everyone is into shots and pills and quick solutions. I don't even like to take advil unless it's completely necessary.
ReplyDeleteI am just DUMBFOUNDED, WTF is wrong with folks?!?!
ReplyDeleteAnd in 2011, Sue Ellen, we have these things called vaccines that actually do the job and in a far better way than sending kids over to the house (or handing them infected lollipops) to deliberately give them the pox. For a moment, I thought we were back in the days when Conquistadors handed out smallpox-infested blankets to Aztecs in order to kill them. The parents are doing this for a different, one may say, more humane reason. But in an age in which we have vaccines, there's no excuse for doing this crap.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but this isn't benign activity here; it is a communicable disease that can do real damage to kids and adults too. It's a public health hazard and, honestly, it's child abuse. Honestly, I'd have all of those parents deserve hard time. You don't do this to your kids.
I had no idea there was a vaccine - in my country, we just all got it as kids and they made sure we got it if we didnt, just because it is so much worse if you get it as an adult.
ReplyDelete@Sevenmack
ReplyDeleteI guess I don't agree with you. Sorry.
Sevenmack, don't just listen to the media hype. There is much more to tha harm that vaccines are causing and it is coming to light. Pharmaceuticals have a billion dollar profit to protect and are doing it at the cost of our children. There is growing evidence that the chickenpox vaccine does not provide lifelong immunity and when an adult gets chicken pox it's much worse. When you get the actual chicken pox, you are immune for life, It's idiocracy at it's finest to be sheeple and call parents child abusers for not doing vaccines. Your lucky if you don't have a vaccine injured child.
ReplyDeleteI had chicken pox when I was 2 (I'm 60 now) I STILL have large scars all over my right hip from where my diaper or underpants (I'm not sure which) rubbed against the sores. I just thank God I didn't get any scars on my face or other really visible areas. I also know an adult male who contracted chicken pox and became sterile. You just don't fool around with disease.
ReplyDeleteI was fully onboard for both my daughters to get the vaccine when they were born. Once you have chicken pox, you open yourselves up to shingles when you're older. Sometimes, you start getting it when you're younger. Shingles is PAINFUL and debilitating. I work with someone who has a daughter is is just 3 years old now. We had a group work dinner a few weeks ago and she was talking about how her daughter had chicken pox (and the mom was happy about this). I should add, that the mom was just recovering from a bought of shingles herself which kept her from work and that she still had the scabs on her neck from. I kept my mouth shut, but the husband and I were dumbfounded that she knowingly and voluntarily put her daughter at risk, not only for chicken pox, but setting her up for now having shingles when she's older. I still don't get it. Why would you want to do that to your child, if you had the power to protect them from that???
ReplyDelete@trixibelle - chicken pox is dangerous when you catch it as an adult, and more traumatizing. Accompanied by high fever, it could result in coma, memory loss, and in some cases brain damage.
ReplyDeleteThat is why ol'-time doctors, the ones who did not prescribe crap to any ailment you got, encouraged parents to have their children catch the chicken pox before their 13th bday.
It's as simple as encouraging your immune system to develop at an early age. Because every one knows, at 25, your immune systems starts slowly declining. And shots only result in the virus to mutate into a new form. When as you develop natural, more resistant anti-bodies.
I think the lolly pop thing is going too far, for who knows what else is on that thing that you'd be giving your child. Thank God we're not during Anthrax times anymore.
As for vaccines causing autism. If you look at international studies on U.S. children with autism treated abroad, the results are conclusive: high doses, of cheaply made vaccines, are proven to be directly linked to autism in more than 90% of the cases.
The reason why the US government is not backing this up? 1- why would they admit that they had caused millions of children, and their parents' lives to be dramatically changed. Because lobbying in America is more powerful than the law. And pharmaceutical companies have the most powerful lobbyists of them all.
Have you watched TV lately? How many law firms are advertising for massive lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies that had produced all those "safe" and tested medication for your depression, insomnia, etc. That are now causing so much havoc?
Ah, that is so interesting. Because where I am from authorities tell you that anybody who has had chicken pox CANNOT get shingles. That is why parents let their kids get it.
ReplyDeleteUmm, Sharknerd, I'm a college-educated adult who works on public policy and media as my day job. I was also a science reporter. And I have more than enough history books (including on the Black Plague and Louis Pasteur) to know what is "media hype". Sorry, but the evidence is clear that vaccines work and doesn't lead to any injury to kids. If anything, there is a need for vaccine development that hasn't been tapped largely because of the high cost of developing and testing vaccines compared to the low margins (which are lower than the already low margins for other drugs).
ReplyDeleteAny argument to the contrary smacks of pure illogic and idiocy. Plain and simple. And is utterly inhumane.
No vaccine when I was a kid, but yeah, parents used to send their kids to houses where it was, so they could get it over with. And believe me, I know all about Big Pharma having a chronic illness myself, don't get me started, but vaccines do have a purpose! More and more parents are not giving their kids shots, and new epidemics of serious diseases are spreading. However, I'm still on the fence with Gardisal, which is now being urged on boys. Big Pharma scam or true? Now that's one shot that has caused some major scary side effects.
ReplyDeleteLinnea - I heard that! You also probably had rubella, measles, scarlet fever and the mumps...they were called "children's diseases" and you were kind of supposed to get them as a kid, weren't you? *L*
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, when it came to chicken pox, it was like Sue Ellen said - one kid got it and we all had to go to their house so we'd be infected and get it over with. That's not to say that I agree with sending infected lollipops in the mail. Who knows what kind of new strains are out there these days.
Haha Maja, sometimes I wonder if we are from the same country or something... :)
ReplyDeleteWe had our chicken pox party on New Years Eve, which was great cause all of us kids on the street had a sleepover and rang in the New Year together. Any person that hadn't already had chicken pox was not allowed.
ReplyDeleteSigh. Memories.
Glad to see people mentioning shingles. And that virus also lives in the ear area, causing tinnitus. Many times when people complain of this they are actually having a shingles attack. Big Pharma will never admit to any wrong. I don't know how anyone is ever expected to get concise and accurate information any more.
ReplyDeleteThere was a Simpsons episode about this.
ReplyDeleteThe evidence on vaccines and not only autism but add,asthma, seizures, diabetes...list goes on, 1 in 6 kids have some type of neurological disorder. I don't think all vaccines are bad, however some are completely unnecessary unless you're in a high risk group (hepB) and there are way too many given way too soon and it's overwhelming more and more children's immmune systems and wreaking havoc. There are NO studies proving that giving these vaccines (not just the antigen, the whole vaccine) in the amounts given are harmless. It's become a high profit industry without risk (immunity to all vaccine makers no matter what) and that in itself is dangerous. I have seen children perfectly fine prior to a vaccine, deteriorate rapidly..just coincidence..b*llsh*t, I am also college educated and have gone to numerous medical conferences over the last 15 years on this subject.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI am the vaccine queen with my kids and my youngest still got a mild case of them. My oldest got a terrible case from the kids next door. He had them in his mouth and everywhere else on Christmas when he was four. They did not have the vaccine for them back then, he just turned 23. It was AWFUL. Who would do this to your children on purpose is EVIL. My Dad has a awful case of shingles right now (66 years old) he so wishes he had gotten the damn shot. : (
ReplyDeletei 'm 30 and i had 3 times(it's rare) the chicken pox when i was child:2 times one week whereas the 3th time,it lasted 5 weeks ,i was at the hospital after the 2 first weeks because i had an encephalitis
ReplyDeleteToo many people forgot the chicken pox can have complications and can kill also so praise the vaccines
Oh, Sharknerd, just stop. You can't cite one peer-reviewed study that proves your argument. And that's because the anti-vaccine side doesn't have one peer-reviewed study of high quality that it can cite. Now cut the crap.
ReplyDeleteI'd argue with you some more. But seriously, I don't argue with those stuck on stupid when it comes to something called science. One can reasonably argue over faith and God. But the evidence of the success of vaccines is quite lengthy and the evidence of damage doesn't exist.
Wow, some really differing opinions here. I think the lollipops are a bit, uh...gross...but when I was younger, my mom sent me to stay over with my godsisters' when they got chicken pox when I was younger so I would get it over with. I never did...turns out I'm immune. To be honest, when I have kids I'm definitely doing the vaccines, but think I'll skip the one for chicken pox. Hardly life-threatening. I plan on skipping any that aren't totally necessary.
ReplyDeleteShingles are caused by the same virus as chicken pox. After you recover from chicken pox, the virus remains in some of the nerves of your body, but is inactive. Later in life, the virus can become re-activated in some people, resulting in shingles. Generally, your first contact with the virus results in chicken pox and the later flare-up results in shingles. If you haven't come into contact with the virus (herpes zoster) you won't get shingles.
ReplyDeleteSo, provided that the vaccine is effective, and provides life-long titres against the virus (or can be boosted later in life), immunizing your kids is a much better way to go if you want to protect them from both chicken pox and shingles later in life.
@Sevenmack, you are 100% correct. I too work in public policy--in children's health policy, PhD. The article you appropriately cite points refers to a so-called "study" that has done inestimable damage to children's health in the years since. The Lancet majorly messed up when they published the original. Even with the retraction, many parents still prefer to believe in the spurious vaccine-autism link.
ReplyDeleteRita wrote: "As for vaccines causing autism. If you look at international studies on U.S. children with autism treated abroad, the results are conclusive: high doses, of cheaply made vaccines, are proven to be directly linked to autism in more than 90% of the cases."
@Rita, just because a study is "conducted" does not mean that it is done rigorously, that the methodology is even close to being scientifically valid. Poorly designed studies published in dubious journals are the bane of true science.
A friend of mine who should know better kept her kids from getting vaccines because she was afraid of their "contracting" autism. The younger child? Oh yeah...autistic. And not protected against a number of serious diseases.
Three of my friends had chicken pox as adults, and it was awful. As luck would have it, I was with each of them the night before the spots came out, and I never got it (I never had it as a child). I was terrified, so my doctor did an antibody test, which was positive, meaning at some point, I had had it. I don't know how you could possibly have chicken pox and not know, but my doctor said I must have had an extremely mild case, with maybe a scab or two in my scalp.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could have the vaccine, but because I tested positive, I can't. I would have that vaccine in a heartbeat if I could.
Also, one of my friends who got chicken pox as a kid, ended up in the hospital with encephalitis and landed in a coma. He's fine now, but that is so scary, and if you can do something (vaccination) to prevent this, you absolutely should.
Vaccines have lost their purpose. They were supposed to strengthen your immune system, by giving you a low injection of the disease, in order for you to develop to right antibodies and help fight off said disease.
ReplyDeleteNot every little illness needs a vaccine. Any idiot with or without a degree knows that.
Why vaccines have caused autism? Because Big Pharma had produced really bad and cheap generics, selling them at the same high price as the regular production to the government, and a combination of those bad replicas of original vaccines were all given at the same time to babies, instead of pacing the doses on several weeks.
The combination was lethal and caused a series of neuro-disabilities in a number of what were very healthy children.
The same way we have discovered that we did not need bird-flue shots, we do not flue shots at all, unless you are elderly, or with an immune system that has been badly compromised: Your body if treated right, will get over whatever illness you catch, and will come out stronger for it.
That is why every year there is a new flue vaccine.
There are over 300 types of flue, and you know how Big Pharma picks which flue to pick and produce a vaccine against? 6 months beforehand they would see which is the more prominent in Asia, and they would produce a vaccine against that exact type of flue.
That is why most people with a shot still get very sick. It also depends on the quality of product you were lucky, or unlucky, to get.
And again, some diseases have proven to be smarter than vaccines. The pox, and yellow fever, have transmuted into new forms in the past 10 years, that vaccines cannot encounter, and are making a comeback. Only ones with previously developed antibodies are able to beat the disease.
Only serious situations, or life threatening ones deserve vaccination and or drug treatment. Am not saying that you shouldn't get vaccinated: just get your information before doing so. I am all for getting vaccinated for different types of hepatitis. We also live in a developed and clean country, with cleaner water supply, we only need to get vaccines when travelling to countries with a lesser cleaner water supply/treatment. And even then, you better ask for the best vaccine your doctor can prescribe. With the lack of accountability of Pharmaceutical companies lately, better be safe than sorry!
Pox parties aren't illegal and I personally don't see that there is anything wrong with them. I also don't see anything wrong with parents wanting to vaccinate. That's because this is a very, very personal choice that parents are faced with when their kiddos are young. No law compels parents to vaccinate!!!
ReplyDeleteAnd, honestly it doesn't matter one bit what anyone else thinks - this is something that a parent will live with and therefore the choice is on their shoulders. Stop freaking passing judgement, vaccinators and non-vaccinators are making what they think is the best choice for THEIR kids, not yours.
http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/chicken-pox-vaccine-causes-a-dangerous-rise-in-number-of-shingles-cases/
ReplyDeleteResearch published in the International Journal of Toxicology (IJT) by Gary S. Goldman, Ph.D., reveals high rates of shingles (herpes zoster) in Americans since the government’s 1995 recommendation that all children receive chicken pox vaccine.
I went to a stupid chicken pox party in the early 70's but never got a full blown case so lucky me . . . got a full blown very bad case in my 20's. See, neither option is without risks people . . .
ReplyDeleteBTW, everyone I know had chicken pox and all are fine.
ReplyDeleteTrading communicable diseases is the new planking!
ReplyDelete@figgy - Actually, studieS were conducted. Not one. Not five. But many over the years, unlike the studies in the U.S. who were conducted on behalf of, and paid for, by big Pharma, the studies I'm talking about are from outside the U.S. from independent governments and health sectors. There are also US universities who had dared to contradict with their own studies, but had quickly been shut down.
ReplyDeleteWe never fought you and I, we were always decent towards each other, so I hope we keep it that way. Always admired the way you submitted your opinion.
I'm not bashing all vaccines, I'm not even with parents who would never vaccinate their children, I'm simply stating that it is proven true, a badly produced batch of vaccines had caused irreversible neuro damages in babies, resulting in Autism. Parents should be very aware of this situation, and make sure that their health practitioner is giving them not only correct information, but also prescribing right dosage, as well as quality dosage.
You do know that vaccines weaken our immune system, and getting drugs and vaccines left and right had even made immune systems "lazy", and not appropriately producing antibodies.
There is a point, when you see all those cases where drug and vaccine uses have irreparable illnesses and deaths, where you must know that the US government is not treating its people as human beings anymore, but as consumers. Product buyers.
Unfortunately, we cannot count on our government anymore for making decisions to what is best for us anymore.
Re: Gary Goldman:
ReplyDeleteI take medical advice from people who have degrees in that field - not in computer science.
They also did a South Park episode on this.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me started on flu shots. You couldn't PAY me to get one of those.
ReplyDelete^Me either. My immune system is just fine, thank you.
ReplyDeleteKimberly Kay, wrong, wrong, WRONG! People have every right to be pissed off at the anti-vaccination crowd, because their stupidity endangers other children by weakening herd immunity. Children get different vaccines at different times, because some vaccines aren't safe for babies. So what happens when some idiot parent decides not to vaccinate their child against something like scarlet fever, then takes their precious little snowflake to day care, where they infect a baby, who can't have the vaccine yet? This very scenario has happened numerous times and has resulted in the deaths of dozens of babies. So yes, anti-vaccination parents deserve everything they get from people, as well as a few hard whacks with the common sense stick.
ReplyDeleteLike a few other people here, I work in public health policy and can tell you that there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE LINKING VACCINES TO AUTISM. Anyone who says differently is either lying or seriously misinformed. People, get your kids their jabs! Trust the pediatricians over Playboy bunnies when it comes to the health of your (and everyone else's) children!
Sorry, Kimberly, I will pass judgement on people who endanger their kids (and everyone else) because they buy into false ideas that actually harm real live people. Arguing that one shouldn't pass judgement on these fo-, I mean, fine people, is akin to saying that it is okay to let your child die of Leukemia because you are a Christian Scientist. No right-thinking person, especially those of us who are among the religiously faithful, would agree with such a suggestion. So why is vaccination any different?
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, pox parties are a horrible idea. In an age in which you can actually use vaccinations, exposing children needlessly to disease is akin to abuse. I know some folks say that their parents did this back in the day and they turned out fine. But our parents also used to smoke during pregnancy, and let us ride in cars without wearing seat belts. Engaging in insanity because your parents used to do so is not logical. Sorry, but your subjective experiences mean nothing compared to the objective facts.
And all this talk of not using vaccines in order to allow for the build-up of immunity fails against both scientific fact and history. History, in particular, has proven this clearly. Think the Spanish Influenza outbreak of 1919, or every outbreak of Polio until the development of the Salk Vaccine. Simply exposing someone to a disease in and of itself doesn't lead future immunity. That's why we use vaccines in the first place.
Team vaccines.
ReplyDeleteCan we order shirts?
ReplyDeleteall this defensiveness and division over one more health concern! why do people fight like this? it's so sad.
ReplyDeletea drill in the head used to work for some medical troubles! same as bloodletting, tho fatal in some circumstances.. some herbs used to work, say, to lower a fever, that would be fatal in large doses.
no one wants to hurt their child, but our childrens health is so precious, so we resort to what must seem certainties...
some vaccines are clearly harmful, others not. sometimes it depends on the patients history or vigor. it's frightening..
And Sharknerd: Seriously, a computer scientist as your source? Now, let me make clear: Expertise isn't everything (and in some subjects, like education, not even worth a dime). But in medicine, expertise is everything. And if the person you cite isn't a doctor, his writings aren't worth six cents.
ReplyDeleteWow. Just wtf. Those parents should be charged with child endangerment and neglect, if not full blown child abuse. Who knowingly risks exposing their child to diseases? Are any of those parents licensed medical professionals qualified to make medical decisions like this for their child?
ReplyDeleteI really do not see any way of justifying these actions. I hope the poor kiddos subjected to this are healthy, safe, and taken into the care of people who know what the fuck they're doing.
Re: flu vaccines.
ReplyDeleteThe reason why there is a new flu vaccine every year is that the "type" of flu in circulation changes each season. Each year there is a slightly different version, because last year's flu can't infect people who had it/were vaccinated against it.
Flu viruses swap pieces very easily - in people and in animals like birds and pigs – as soon as there is more than one strain infecting the same organism. If the exchange of pieces results in a combination that the population hasn’t seen before…boom: “new” flu in circulation.
Flu viruses are competing against our immune systems. Think of it like an arms race - as fast as our bodies are trying to build a response to the flu, the flu is trying to find ways to evade our defences.
Vaccine makers try to make their best guesses as to what flu strains will be making the rounds each year. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes not. Plus, different populations respond differently to different flus, so what might be dangerous to one group may not be as worrisome in others (similar to how the swine flu outbreak of 2009 was deadly in some places but not others).
Up to you whether you want to get the flu vaccine each year, but vaccines certainly don't weaken your immune system. And for those that have still gotten sick after getting the flu shot, either you (a) came in contact with a flu that wasn't protected against in the vaccine mix, or (b) made such a robust immune response to the the vaccine that you got the symptoms of flu - some of the chemical messengers made by the body during the immune response are responsible for making you feel like CRAP when you're sick =)
And enough with the "vaccinations cause autism" bullshit propaganda. You can't "get" autism. It is a genetic mutation that takes place in one's DNA while they are IN UTERO. As early as eight weeks in fetal development.
ReplyDeleteMisinformation causes mass hysteria and puts the general health and safety of the public at risk. Sure, let's all just ignore medical professionals with YEARS of schooling and practice, and instead listen to what some unqualified blonde bimbo says about the issue. Because being a co-host on "Singled Out" and being in Playboy totally qualify her to give medical advice regarding children.
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ReplyDeleteMy brother got shingles as an adult. We both had the pox as kids, as there was no vaccine for it back then (1970s). It was THE most painful illnesses he ever had, and he was always sick when we were kids. He still has the scars.
ReplyDeleteWhy risk your kids getting that? Get the damn shot. My mom would have got it for us if there was one.
It's not as bad as gay men with their bugchasing hiv parties.
ReplyDeleteI'm not in the mood to argue about the pros and cons of vaccines or the link to autism. What I will mention is that one of the reasons for the increase in autism is that the diagnostic criterion has changed in the last 15 or so years. Autism used to be a less inclusive diagnosis. We currently have the autistic spectrum and people who would not have been classified as autistic in the past are now.
ReplyDeleteWhat?!!??
ReplyDeleteMy aunt died of complications related to shingles last year. She was in agonizing pain for the last 11 months of her life. I also have two under 35 relatives who have had shingles recently. They both talk about the pain and one has permanent nerve damage in the rash area.
ReplyDeleteIf you've had the chicken pox, you have a one in five chance of getting shingles at some point. If you don't know anyone with shingles, start talking to the older people in your family.
I def. had the MMR vaccine, but I don't recall if I ever had the CP one? But anyway, I got it around age 5. I don't remember anyone having CP parties but I DO remember my mother being relieved at me getting it over with.
ReplyDeleteI have asked about the link between vaccines and autism to two of my friends who have studied it extensively & also work with autistic children & neither of them believe there is a definite link. I'll go with their opinions til I see something more substantiated. :)
The lollipop thing, to me, is STUPID.
Didn't hear anyone mention how shingles can lead to a Bells Palsey stroke yet. Continue........
ReplyDeletehow is this legal???
ReplyDeletedumdum, it most definitely is not legal!
ReplyDelete