#1-To the best of my knowledge there is no book deal or anything like it. If there is, I'm not getting any money from it. I think it would make a great book and movie, but I think there is more potential for a movie with Gift Clement.
#2 It's not a simple answer. When I reveal it will be a long post explaining everything.
#3 Shimmy is NOT
Hattie McDaniel
Edith Evans
Josephine Hull
#4 Timmy was a very good singer. He was not A list. William Haines was a mentor to him. Katharine Hepburn adored Timmy.
This has nothing to do with Timmy, but just an observation. This site generally gets between 2M-3M hits a month and that's great. I'm perfectly happy with that and don't want to get much higher because then it would be much harder to fly under the radar. That monthly number translates into about 100,000 hits a day and about 50,000 unique visitors. It never really varies up or down much except on the weekends. Even with Timmy/Shimmy the comments increased, but not the number of people coming to the site.
Since the Vanessa Hudgens nude photo scandal, this site has been getting 200,000 hits an HOUR. Is seeing an 18 year old girl naked that exciting? At what point in the world has everyone seen the photo? If I get 3M people a day looking at it and all the other sites who have her photo get 3M hits a day at what point do you reach the population of the world?
The surreal thing about it also is that none of those 200,000 people an hour looking at her photo have any idea what the rest of the site is about. They are just following a link. They have no idea about Timmy/Shimmy or anything else. It's a very odd kind of feeling. It's like the rest of us are living in a separate world.
I just wish that those numbers of people could be turned into something more positive than looking at some really bad photo of someone barely B list. It seems like such a waste, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm open to putting a link, and idea, a charity, or anything on that naked photo post which would at least present the opportunity for something positive.
Thanks ent. Maybe you're only kind of an *sshole. :)
ReplyDeleteSEE ANON? he's for real.
ReplyDeleteHmmmm... The plot thickens. Thanks, ETL! I guess KK and AB are still in the running.
ReplyDeleteHere is some biographical info I just found on Alice Brady... I'm not sure if it has been posted here or not.
http://silentgents.com/BBrady.html
Gotta be Alice brady. William haines, like THE William Haines who became uber-designer "Billy Haines" after his Hollywood career dwindled. It's Alice Brady. I'd bet my two front teeth.
ReplyDeleteBalis- I still don't think he's for-real. I'd bet Santa is more real than ent.
ReplyDeleteIt's a fun mystery though.
Helena, where is the connection you see between Alice and Haines? Just wondering
ReplyDeleteExcellent new clues - thank you!
ReplyDeleteThank you ENT!!!
ReplyDeleteI am so glad you ruled out Josephine Hull.
I'm really starting to feel Alice Brady more than KK, more so now because of the William Haines hint. WH and AB were really of the same era.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.williamhaines.com/history.php
ReplyDeleteNothing direct, just yet....but given who Timmy was friends with, and the images on the site above, it looks more "Alice Brady" than Kaye Kendall. Lots of history there, roots run deep. Plus, Alice B's dad was "in the biz" and ent just said it's not a simple story. BUT...it's also VERY "American Film Royalty", you know? As opposed to KK, sudden-Brit-on-the-scene. It's all very clique-ish
Poke around the site at the link, see if you can see something I miss. The more eyes, the better....
Reared in Hartford, Conn., by a prominent physician and a mother who was active in political and feminist circles, Hepburn was a tomboy growing up, taking on the persona of "Jimmy" to play with her adored older brother Tom, who died -- most likely a suicide -- at 15. The image of the boisterous, happily sparring family later purveyed by Hepburn when speaking of her early life was marred further by Dr. Hepburn's competitive streak and Mrs. Hepburn's absence. The near constant pressure to perform and prove herself to these distant paragons, Mann posits, was just one spur to Hepburn's burning ambition as an actress. And her alter ego, Jimmy, was just the beginning of the androgynous sexuality that would define her appeal.
ReplyDeleteHer alter-ego.... Jimmy?!?!?!
Anyone notice the title of William Haines' biography?
ReplyDelete"Wisecracker: The Life and Times of William Haines, Hollywood's First Openly Gay Star."
Ent,
ReplyDeleteA great charity can be found at www.ucp.com That's for United Cerebral Palsy. My youngest daughter has cerebral palsy and it's one of those things, like so many other conditions, that can always use more research. Maybe you could put links to several childhood or birth related defects, like cerebral palsy, since Vanessa Hudgens is still just a kid!
Ent, thanks to Timmy I have discovered your site and love your tone. I had seen your blind items before and since I loved blind items in general always speculated but never posted. But your take on a lot of the stuff you post is fun and interesting. Your comments on the vanessa hudgens debacle no less so.
ReplyDeleteReading wiki's William Haines page is fascinating. Turns out there were some amazing stories behind the scenes of the golden age (especially Timmy/Shimmy) and each suspect or clue takes interesting twists and turns. The dichotomy between the whitewashed image of the 30s and 40s - the one I grew up believing in - and the reality is fascinating. Thanks again.
Shut up... could Shimmy be KH?!?!? N-O. I don't belive it. Team Alice Brady.
ReplyDeleteJimmy Shields? He was a longtime friend of William Haines.
ReplyDeleteStarted poking around in Wisecracker, William Haines's bio. Found a geoffery Toone...a Brit who's career on IMDB has about a 10 year gap.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Haines died in 1973 and Hepburn just a few years ago so the link to "old Hollywood" does not necessarily mean AB.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0867555/
Back to the book
Three good points from Datalounge
ReplyDelete1."When he first arrived in LA, the studio system was still going strong and most performers were tied to a studio for many years. "
why write " still going strong"?
This makes me think it later then 1939.
2. Alice Brady did not "fake" her respectable Broadway career. It would have been easy to fake a "regional" past in those days, but there are hundreds of reviews and press coverage she got on Broadway (particularly for "Mourning Becomes Electra") that could not have been faked.
3. Alice Brady also had an extensive silent film career, which doesn't fit the item, either. I think it's someone of more recent vintage, whose award-winning movie was in the 1950s.
They aren't buying the pictures either
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteoh nevermind it's Chaplin
ReplyDeleteEnt-
ReplyDeleteYou can link to any of the Click to Give sites. All viewers have to do is click a button to generate income for the charities.
www.thehungersite.com (free food)
www.thebreastcancersite.com (free mammograms -- an obvious tie in??)
www.theanimalrescuesite.com (free food and care)
www.therainforestsite.com (protect endangered habitats)
www.theliteracysite.com (free books)
www.thechildhealthsite.com (free child healthcare)
Doh! The J Train derailed! But which train to get on now? AB or KK? Tough choice.
ReplyDeleteThanks Ent for the update.
The phrase 'Katherine Hepburn adored him' rings a bell. I think a poster may have said something similar about one of the candidates. I'll take a look.
As doubtful as I've been- research and all--- Kat Hep had an alter-ego named "JIMMY"?! WTF?!
ReplyDeleteJimmy Shields, Haines' life-partner, was in NO way slight, though. He was a tall, portly fellow.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be really cool if Kat Hep took over the life of Tom- her 15 year old brother who accis=dentally died by hanging himself. Could Kat have been the victim, and the bro took over her life?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBorn May 12, 1907 in Hartford, Connecticut, she was the daughter of a doctor and a suffragette, both of whom always encouraged her to speak her mind, develop it fully, and exercise her body to its full potential. An athletic tomboy as a child, she was also very close to her brother, Tom, and was devastated at age 14 to find him dead, the apparent result of accidentally hanging himself while practicing a hanging trick their father had taught them. For many years after this, Katharine used his birthdate, November 8, as her own. She then became very shy around girls her age, and was largely schooled at home. She did attend Bryn Mawr College, however, and it was here that she decided to become an actress, appearing in many of their productions.
ReplyDeletebefore we get carried away -
ReplyDeletedo you really think hepburn fit this item?
Come on'
focus
The link offered by missanonymous leads to a scan of an article about Alice Brady written in 1923. According to this article, Alice Brady was 5'7". The Alice Brady in My Man Godfrey appears to be shorter than Carole Lombard who was 5'4". Unless the 1923 article was inaccurate or Lombard was wearing super high heels, it seems like the silent era Alice Brady was NOT the 1930s Hollywood Alice Brady!
ReplyDeleteThank EL,
ReplyDeletefor the T/Shimmy hints and for your thoughts on the VH pics.
saw this on kate's imbd
ReplyDelete"was a self confessed fan of john gilbert and greta garbo"
vanessa redgrave was the one she loved most, said she was "a thrill to look at and listen to"
Hey I don't have a dog in this fight and you don't know me from adam -
ReplyDeleteBut Alice Brady was a well respected broadway actress. You just can't fake all these credit
http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?id=21119
Ohhhhhh shimmy shimmy coco puff how I so badly want this to be over with I actually had a dream about this I do remember in the dream coming to the conclusion that this happened around the 1940's.....I just want this to end for the sake of my mental health...I just wanna move on from this and find my rhet butler have a few kids and know deep inside that no matter how many blind items I read all men/shimmys are not gay or bi.......
ReplyDeletealso i see there is a movie called out the closet, off the screen: the life of william haines (2001)
ReplyDeleteUh oh. Timmy was a good singer?
ReplyDeleteImdb says Gloria Grahame was tone deaf.
Damn. My sentimental favorite - denied!
Hey ENT rather than a charity would you consider including a link to either family watchdog or the megan's law site, that allow anyone in the US to type in their zip code and find out if there are registered offenders who have committed crimes against minors? Seems like it makes a nice, relevant counterpoint to all the (I'm guessing FAR older) people out there linking to a naked 18 year girl.
ReplyDelete:) Interesting commentary for a Friday night ent!
ReplyDeleteAnd wow I have to say again to all you guys guessing - in all the blinds I've read (here and else where) I don't know if I've ever read such cooperation...kindness...comradere...you name it. Kudos. I think you'll have it solved way before ent's deadline.
I also see Mann,Willim. Wisecracker: "the life and times of william haines, hollywood's 1st openly gay star." vikving 1998. would love to see that now!
ReplyDeleteLet's all stay together on this. Katherine Hepburn adored Timmy.
ReplyDeleteShe was not Timmy.
She adored Timmy.
With that said, was she one of the 10 that knew about the sham? Ent DIDN"T say Kate adored SHIMMY.
Ent said it was not a simple answer and would take a long time to post.
It would take a long explaination to explain KK or AB to us given their histories.
Interesting: William Mann wrote both the William Haines biography and the Katharine Hepburn biography. Kate: The Woman Who Was Hepburn.
ReplyDeletehmmm its a book too, maybe i should get it
ReplyDeleteAnyone know where I can find a list of actors who died in Timmy's 1980-1985 time frame? I was going to compare that with the index of Wisecracker. I know this info was posted earlier but it is impossible to wade through and I am not having any luck with Google
ReplyDeleteFrom a review of Mann's Hepburn book: "This interpretation also shatters the legend of her romance with Spencer Tracy — instead, Mann establishes a pattern of relationships in which the sex-averse Hepburn played emotional caretaker to a series of alcoholic, closeted homosexuals that, in addition to Tracy, included director John Ford." From here: www.powells.com/biblio/62-0805076255-0
ReplyDeleteokay, i'm chiming in for the first time here.
ReplyDeletein william haines imdb bio, it says his life partner was Jimmie Shields:
--
Following the Great Depression and a tight crackdown on morality, MGM mogul Louis B. Mayer insisted Haines leave his lover and publicly marry a woman. Haines refused and was fired. His relationship with longtime lover, Jimmie Shields, lasted fifty years.
--
JIMMIE - 50 years - sounds familiar to me!!
it also says:
--
Almost 3 months after William's death, his lifelong partner, Jimmie Shields, broken-hearted, committed suicide with an overdose of sleeping pills.
--
so, in other words, jimmie disappeared. another familiar clue!!
i know i am probably not tying these things together very well (i'm so tired from reading this stuff for hours!) but i think there is something here...
...anyone agree?
JIMMIE
I know Eve...I was wondering if ent was William Mann. :) I have both bios and they are great reads
ReplyDeleteENT, you can't post the nude photo and then gripe about the banality of humankind.
ReplyDeleteOf the 3 million clicks on the picture on your side 2 million are probably your own.
No oddoneout...Jimmie was William Haines' long time lover...he did not mentor him as ent said. Plus, Jimmie was quite old (together for 50 years?) and so not likely to attract the attention of an A-list actor
ReplyDeleteLilandforth, that crossed my mind for half a second then I decided it couldn't be ... this would be too much of a dead giveaway.
ReplyDeleteBut both biographies do sound like must-reads!
Haines died in Dec 1973,,which would make Jimmie's death 1974 so...not really.
ReplyDeleteEL also said that Timy was not with his ' closeted A-List lover' all of his life.
For everyone citing IMDb and IBDb as the absolute authority on the showbiz careers of the folks we're gossiping about:
ReplyDeleteThey screw up. A lot. Probably on purpose.
Case in point: my fiance is a cameraman. His credits are listed on IMDb. IMDb is MISSING some films he's worked on and they've CREDITED him with things he never worked on.
When he contacted them to correct the info, he was to told he could PURCHASE (ha ha, there's the $$ grab) a subscription and have absolute control over his credits.
The errors still remain, as it's not worth his while to fix their silliness.
So, IMDb and IBDb screw up. They do it probably so that the people who "care" will shell out for a membership to fix it.
If Timmy told the story that he was Alice Brady of silent film repute (or if someone BESIDES Timmy began that rumor all those many years ago), then as Ent. already told us., the story Timmy gave is STILL the one in use today.
Timmy's bio far pre-dates IMDb and IBDb. Those two sites are only repeating what's been told to them by.....(who?? We don't know).
But, trust me, I'm looking at my own fiance's IMDb page right now, and it ain't right, folks....if they screw up on him, they'll screw up on ANYbody....just sayin'
Has anyone watched sunset boulevard yet? Because of the picture of the car on the original posting about Timmy.
ReplyDeleteLook at this.
When Billy Wilder shot SUNSET BOULEVARD in 1950, he asked William Haines to be a part of Gloria Swanson's "waxworks" gathering of washed-up silent film stars playing a desultory game of bridge. No, said Haines,
Did this scene exist in the movie and if so could TIMMY have made it into the scene as one of the washed up silent film stars?
Alice Brady's role in Mourning Becomes Electra
ReplyDeleteisn't a mistake - it's well documented.
She was a major actress on broadway for a few decades - it doesn't matter what ibdb said - go to talkinbroadway and ask the members there about Alice Brady.
Listen it would be a fab if Alice Brady is Timmy. I would love to read ENL's explaination. I'm sorry to disappoint you but Alice Brady doesn't fit.
"Helena said...
ReplyDeleteSo, IMDb and IBDb screw up. They do it probably so that the people who "care" will shell out for a membership to fix it."
FYI--IBDB is in no way connected to the IMDB..and they do not charge a membership fee
damn, i tried.
ReplyDeletei can't even think straight after reading so many comments and looking up so many pictures!
I still think there might be something to the jimmie thing, though, even if its not immediately obvious.
helena - good point about imdb. really just about any "credible" site can be easily manipulated.
There is a scene in Sunset Blvd where William Holden suffers through a bridge game with Swanson and a bunch of old-timers.
ReplyDeleteThey're credited on the not-always accurate imdb as Buster Keaton, Anna Q. Nilsson, and HB Warner.
I have the DVD and will take a look at the scene tonight to see if anything in the dialogue jumps out at me.
Sorry, if I missed it but when is this going to be revealed? I take it we are not waiting until December now? So when?
ReplyDeleteHow about "Your wife now knows that you are a borderline pedophile" as the title! Frigging pervs!
ReplyDeleteEnt. wants to surprise us w/ the reveal.....he said "maybe" he'd do it after he posts item #2000 to the CDAN blog
ReplyDeleteApparently Gloria Grahame sucked as a singer, corroborated on several other sites about old movies. So imdb got that one right, although I agree it's better to place greater weight on tidbits that are related by various people on more than one site than it is on a random 'trivia' item found only on imdb (like that guy who jacked Alice Brady's oscar, a story I couldn't find mentioned anywhere else).
ReplyDeleteDoes Timmy have to be an actor?
ReplyDeleteCheck this guy out. He was born in Kansas and wrote for the Golden Horseshoe Review and worked with many A-list actors. He died in 1983.
http://deltahaze.com/30/vt.html
http://thisdayindisneyhistory.homestead.com/July18.html
Thanks Dimes. I hope ENT reveals why he posted that pic in the first place. It has to connect somewhere just like the Horseshoe Revue and Miss Liberty will have to be something.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone found a picture of Jimmy? I don't think he's our Timmy but would like to see him.
Simple. Don't post the pics! It's on every other site. No need to degrade this site. You should preserve the feeling of "I know more than they do and don't need to lower my standards" kind of feeling of this site.
ReplyDeleteI only wish you'd post sooner so I didn't feel as though I was being used to try and rake up your hit numbers. Perez is famous for that tactic. I've been around a long time. I really like you EL but please don't become like them and don't play with people's intelligence.
If you must -
Ginnersnap love all those sites!
btw...I only wish you would discount AB as it'd be a let down as I don't think most of us knew/care about this person.
Needs to be a lot juicier.
Good idea Ent. I'm all for that. Although don't have any ideas. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteWow. 200,000 people an hour! Who knew? So this must be one of the last sites that has her photo up.
And yeah, we all are living in a separate world. But it's a special, wonderful world!! **Cue rainbows and butterflies**
Alison, I agree. If it's so troubling, then walk the talk, EL and don't post photo's like that. I didn't even click on the damn things, it's not like people are going to miss them here.
ReplyDeleteCrayon,Timmy was an actor. That was the whole premise for the blind, remember?
Jimmy Shields? Billy Haines's husband?
ReplyDeleteHere's a link to some small B&Ws...The Haines-Shieldses were apparently good friend of Joan Crawford:
http://www.joancrawfordbest.com/joanalhainesshields572.jpg
http://www.joancrawfordbest.com/joanalhainesshields572.jpg
ReplyDeleteSorry, try this...
Ent, I agree. It is disturbing and sad that a picture of a naked girl (who is young enough to be my daughter) could elicit such a feeding frenzy.
ReplyDeleteI think maybe (and this is a shot in the dark), that this may be a subconscious drive by many to see and remember what innocence looks and feels like (to be reminded of the innocence and freedom from burden and the wonderful, wild abandon within themselves).
Society has generally become so cynical and vulgar (and I say this as one who is very progressive in my beliefs, yet, I see that innocence is generally exploited as opposed to being respected and revered and enjoyed as it truly should be).
I think in some respect, we all hunger and thirst for a return to innocence and unbridled truth. I do. Maybe this is why I am so fascinated with Timmy/Shimmy. On one hand, I feel it is sad that this person had to hide behind a lie to achieve the success he so deserved. On the other hand, I applaud his courage to step outside the box and to do whatever it took to realize his love and dream and true life path.
Timmy was true to himself. I am not sure, were I in his shoes, that I would have had the courage to do what he did.
I have never seen the pictures of this girl. Out of respect for her, I probably won't look at it.
I think Ginger had a wonderful idea. Perhaps it could be arrange with the "click for charity" sites that anyone wishing to see her picture must click for charity first. Perhaps, Ent, you could even post a message to those clicking asking them to search their souls for their motivation, or at least you could ask them to consider that this girl is a human being worth of their compassion and respect. Even if you reach only one person, it would be worth it. It sounds sappy and stupid, but people thought Mother Theresa was sappy and stupid too.
And the fact that you even brought it up tells me that you really are a compassionate, true human being. Good on you, Ent. Good on you.
My apologies to everyone for this long diatribe but it is the only way I know how to respond to Ent. Take care everyone,
Janet
Am I the only one surprised when EL wrote:
ReplyDelete"Even with Timmy/Shimmy the comments increased, but not the number of people coming to the site."
I don't recognize half of the names posting since the Timmy blind was posted, so this is a real surprise.
Thank you so much Ent! Have a great weekend! And of course, we will all keep searching (i'm sure!)
ReplyDeleteThanks again :)
I also noticed that Twisted!
ReplyDeleteA bunch of new names.
I come to this site regularly, but prior to the Shimmy/Timmy blind I never posted a comment. So I guess I'm not the only one.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could figure out what that picture of the cast (cowboys and showgirls?) arrayed on the stairway is from. Could be a movie, could be a play.
ReplyDeleteThe Sunset Blvd still could represent 'JJ' - I'm sticking with Slippery AC Lyles unless someone more likely comes along - he ran Publicity at Paramount when Sunset Blvd was released.
Is Jimmy Shields Timmy?
ReplyDeleteI found a photo of Jimmy Shields in the link provided below. Scroll down on the page to third photo, the group shot. He is petite, with a high forehead, long fingers, and thin arms (no musculature). He has a thin nose and is really pretty.
Haines left Hollywood after 1934 and became a decorator.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.moviediva.com/MD_root/MDimages/Copy_of_showp2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.moviediva.com/MD_root/reviewpages/MDShowPeople.htm&h=406&w=450&sz=35&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=KXuQYr3WBAEBzM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522jimmy%2Bshields%2522%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den
Cast photo is of "Miss Liberty" a largely "failed" musical.
ReplyDeleteYikes - btw - not comparing myself to Mother Theresa. ;)
ReplyDeleteJimmy Shields is mentioned as a singer here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/5284/cast.html
Scroll down to the heading, "The King's Men (vocal group)"
He is mentioned as one of the Four Notes: Donald Novis, Jimmy Shields and Perry Como. I think this was pre-1940.
Hmmm... there's Don Novis again...
crayon, i think you're onto something.
ReplyDeletekay kendall *could be* charles lavere. same long face and light hair!
ent says that "Timmy as an actor and actress was in over 100 films and theatre productions from Topeka to Broadway." charles lavere was born in kansas. i know ent said he grew up in the northeast, but what if that means he matured in the northeast, not necessarily was born there?
plus, charles lavere was a singer - and a good one at that. he is also credited in the 1951 movie "here comes the groom." it's also about the time that his music career (in the theater) fades.
kay kendall won in 1958. if charles lavere was tied of crap roles around 1951, it would match the time that kay kendall's credited roles start appearing.
hmmm....!!
Dimes:
ReplyDeleteThe swiped-Oscar story also appears in this book called "Inside Oscar (The Unofficial History of the Academy Awards)" by Mason Wiley, Damien Bona
"Alice Brady, the best supporting actress winner for In Old Chicago, was not there. She stayed home with her broken ankle. An unidentified gentleman accepted for her and left with her Oscar. He was never heard from again. Brady said she didn't send any representative and she had not received her Oscar. When the academy couldn't find the impostor, they gave Brady another Oscar at an informal ceremony twelve days after the Awards."
NOT the story we've all been reading, now, is it???
Interesting.
Now we've got a busted ankle and an informal ceremony, along with a SECOND Oscar
...what the....?
Odd she wouldn't have made arrangements for someone to be there in her stead, just in case she won. Maybe that was her accepting the award?
ReplyDeleteBTW - has anyone got a link to the Miss Liberty cast picture?
I completely missed that bunch of posts, and now that I'm looking it seems to have been ID'd by someone on a blog somewhere, but I can't find an actual link to the photo.
kk didn't miss her award, ab did.
ReplyDeleteseriously people - look at that pic of charles lavere that crayon linked to: http://deltahaze.com/30/vt.html. look at the nose. tell me that couldn't be kk!
not to mention that rex and the hepburns were in the same circles. katherine would have the opportunity to know and love charles lavere, if he is timmy.
Were they both associated with MGM? I'm going to revisit that website about MGM musicals--perhaps there's a clue to Billy Haines' protoge there.
ReplyDeleteAnd, there was some adorable movie in which Katharine Hepburn played a girl pretending to be a boy. She's NOT very convincing in drag, I'm afraid.
ReplyDeleteCharles Lavere looks like a young James Cromwell.
ReplyDelete"That'll do pig. That'll do." :)
First time poster & brand new to this site.... William Haines went to New York in approx 1920 & in 1922 was sent to Calif to make films for the Goldwyn studio. If he mentored Timmy,that probably happened in Calif. Does this timeline work better with Alice or Kay??
ReplyDeletethe only problem with Charles LaVere is that he has a son named Steve..
ReplyDeleteOnce again, the MGM musicals site is http://hometown.aol.com/mgmfanatic/. I'm sure there's a clue buried in here if anywone wants to help me sift.
ReplyDeletethe katherine hepburn thing is freaky...i almost feel like the explanation is about her alter ego...
ReplyDeletemore about lavere...
ReplyDeletehis having a son is not a problem. plenty of gay men lead double lives.
also, if you go back to the original post, ent never says that timmy WAS an actor, just wanted to be one. he also uses words like 'performed' and 'shows.'
lavere was a musician who performed in shows and, as ent stated about timmy, eventually made his way to hollywood.
Walter Plunkett for Timmy? Did Kate's costuming for 11 movies, including "Song of Love" (ADORED and SINGER?) Did early acting stage work in NY and some early on screen dancing and singing before settling into costume design. Openly gay and left his estate to his partner. Died in 1982. 5'9 and slight build. Lots of things fit. And call me delirious, but I am seeing A LOT of Kay Kendall in his features.
ReplyDeleteWalter photo here
Enty says Timmy was Billy Haines' protege. If Haines was given an ultimatum to choose between his career and being openly gay in 1933, it stands to reason that Timmy as a male (before he became Shimmy) would likely have been Haines' protege before 1933 as the time prior to that was when Haines was in the heyday of his career. Bios mention that Haines was the top leading man in 1930, and 1930-1980 would give us our 50 year time span.
ReplyDeletePerhaps Haines was one of the ten who knew about Timmy's transformation to Shimmy, and extrapolating from that, perhaps MGM was the studio hinted at. Haines would likely have found it quite funny to pull something like this over on Mayer after being given that ultimatum.
Donald Novis is out. He passed away in 1966.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWilliam Haines made his last movie when Kay Kendall was 8 years old. I suppose he could have mentored her, but it seems kind of a stretch.
ReplyDeleteHi Everyone,
ReplyDeleteFirst time, long time ...
I just want to add my two cents into the mix.
RE: Sunset Blvd (the photo)
The new clues have given me the tie in. I think?
1. William Haines first store front as a designer was on Sunset Blvd.
2. Long after his retirement from the movie industry, William Haines was offered a role in the movie Sunset Blvd. The movie was to usher in his big comeback, but he turned down the role.
Well ... Back to the drawing board.
Later.
"oddoneout said....
ReplyDeletealso, if you go back to the original post, ent never says that timmy WAS an actor, just wanted to be one. he also uses words like 'performed' and 'shows.'"
from the original post:
"Timmy worked often, but nothing more than a few lines here or there and spent a great deal of time in the "chorus" sections of musicals which were still fairly popular. To supplement his income Timmy began performing in local theatre productions. One night the lead actress was unable to perform and there was no understudy. A sold out audience was going to be sent home unless something was done.
Enter Timmy. With the audience none the wiser, Timmy performed the entire two hour show as the lead actress and received a standing ovation. He was brilliant and there was even a review in the paper which talked about this understudy who was even better than the regular actress."
you also said:
"his having a son is not a problem. plenty of gay men lead double lives."
The original post said that Timmy remained single all of his life.
If someone posted this already, I apologize: In regards to Charlie LaVere,
ReplyDeleteperformed in 'Golden Horseshoe Revue' at Disneyland (1955-60)
Ok,someone above just posted Donald Novis is out since he died in 1966. I had just found a picture of Mr Novis for sale on Ebay when he was one of the original stars of the 1955 Golden Horseshoe Musical Review (saloon pic on orig BI) It stated his career spanned 5 decades as a film & stage actor & a talented vocalist. (good singer hint today) BTW Donald Novis was the memorable soloist in "Love Is A Song (That Never Ends)" ,the theme song frm Walt Disney's Bambi & he also sang the opening song for Lady & the Tramp"--the Christmas song "Peace on Earth" Another dead end,I guess,but interesting.
ReplyDeletechenofan;
ReplyDeleteI thought the "remained single" was about Timmy's very closeted A-list at the time lover. Maybe I read it wrong though. I don't remember Ent. saying anything about Timmy's love-life besides the bit about the closeted boyfriend....
LoL--we were both posting about the Golden Horseshoe Musical Review at Disneyland at the same time. Very interesting that 2 names that had been brought up were in that review.........
ReplyDeleteHelena:
ReplyDeletethis is the quote from the orig post:
"He (timmy) was very rarely the lead, but in memorable role he was cast as the lead opposite a very closeted A list at the time actor who also remained single for his entire life.
oh and the fact that EL said that the closeted A List actor remained single for his entire life would seem to mean that it couldn't have been Rex Harrison, who was married 6 times.
ReplyDeleteBeth:
ReplyDeleteAll five of Alice Brady's 1933 films were MGM pictures
I read that to mean the A-lister remained single, not Timmy.
ReplyDeleteRex isn't the closeted A-list in Kay's career though.
Rex Harrison, like, as Kay "Shimmy" Kendall's secret lover? I always thought no, because they weren't secret. It was Dirk Bogarde as the "very closeted A-Lister" in the case for Kaye-as-Timmy
ReplyDeleteHepburn's "alter ego" isn't an alter ego... She was in love with her brother. Her first sexual experience and first (and maybe only) love with with her brother (yeah I know)... and after he killed himself, she took it hard for the rest of her life. She even kept a picture of him by her bedside while she was on her death bed.
ReplyDeleteShimmy is Alice Brady. Right before she won her Oscar for 1937's In Old Chicago, she was cast opposite Cesar Romero (closeted A list at the time actor who never married) in 1935's Metropolitan.
ReplyDeleteAs Dire Potatoe has pointed out, there's a ten year gap between the first Alice Brady in silents, who was likely the real McCoy and daughter of the famous B'way producer, and the second Alice Brady, who looks a bit different if you compare pics. I suspect Timmy was an Alice Brady imposter. I wonder how he pulled it off - with the family's consent? Perhaps - if he was a relative . . .
Bogarde was never A-List
ReplyDeleteShe was in love with her brother. Her first sexual experience and first (and maybe only) love with with her brother (yeah I know)...
ReplyDeleteFor real??
Chenofan:
ReplyDeleteI see the thing you are talking about there, in that sentence:
It's the subject-predicate relationship that's at issue:
"..who **also** remained single..."
may be interpreted as:
1. Timmy was single his whole life, and he had a lover that remained single
Alternatively, it could mean:
2. one fact about the lover is that he was a closeted A-lister another fact about the lover is that the lover remained single...
It's almost a double entendre....
DAYUM! If that don't just PROVE we're dealin' with a real live LAWYER...LOL
;)
I don't know if anyone already posted this, but there was a clue in the phrase "The life and times" of Timmy.
ReplyDeleteThere is a great biography of William Haines called "Wisecracker: The life and times of William Haines, Hollywood's First Openly Gay Star"
Timmy must be mentioned in the book.
Apologies if this has been pointed out, but that "life and times" thing had some folks intrigued.
I'm sifting through all things Billy Haines . . .
The first person I thought of reading the new hints is Robert Helpmann (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0375818/).
ReplyDeleteI admit this is a wild card and it doesn't make much sense.
If you google Lavere and Miss Liberty (which someone identified as the cast photo from the original post) you'll see that a man named Redfield Lavere is kinda famous for having a huge stash of Miss Liberty coins.
ReplyDeleteThe golden horseshoe pic and the Sunset Blvd. pic also make sense, so I'm going to go with it being Lavere/KK.
How fun - William Haines has a myspace profile:
ReplyDeletehttp://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=93607042
Kay, crazy isn't it?! I was reading it about Hepburn, she admitted to incest with her brother.
ReplyDeleteRead the article here:
http://highandlowny.tripod.com/id1.html
What's weird is that she became obsessed, shaved her head and called herself Jimmy......
Imagine, if this bl is about Hepburn. wow.
This just gets more and more fascinating...I am now poring over my copy of Garson Kanin's 1971 memoir "Tracy and Hepburn" that I haven't read in years and years, looking for mentions of names in Katharine's life from the mid to late 60s that could be Timmy.
ReplyDeleteIf Timmy was "adored" by Katharine Hepburn, then he lived in an elite circle of golden Hollywood. It's hard to imagine that only 10 people knew his secret. How could you resist dishing a story like that with Katie????
Do we know if Katherine Hepburn knew AB or KK? and any ties with Willam Haines to either lady??
ReplyDeleteI've been following this all week and I'm pretty sold on Kay Kendall.
ReplyDeleteI can't tie this to any specific actress, but what if Timmy was Lynne Carter? Check out all the pics on the page. The physicial description matches to a tee.
ReplyDeleteLook at the obit here.
Said he died of AIDS-related pneumonia in 1985. There's a pic on the first link of Lynne in drag with Sammy Davis Jr. Look at all the pics on the page - he's a striking and small-framed blonde. Hmm.
pity that her working timeline doesn't fit..otherwise Mary Astor's Oscar for "The Great Lie" would be a perfect candidate..
ReplyDeleteMy money has been on KK from the very beginning but with the latest hints
ReplyDeleteKate Hepburn
William Haines
#2 (specially this one)
I think I'm barking up the wrong tree.
interesting that both Lynne Carter and Arthur Blake were in the movie "Port of New York" and both died the same year.
ReplyDeletenanadem--
ReplyDeleteOne of Billy Haines' closest, lifelong friends was costume designer Orry-Kelly, who designed the costumes for Les Girls (KK's movie). If Haines and Timmy were friends, it would stand to reason that, as KK's costumer and Haines' close friend, Orry-Kelly would be "in on it"
Lynne Carter as a man in the 1950s and as a woman. What award winning 1950's star does he resemble?
ReplyDelete"He started his career as a dancer, but soon found he was quite apt at miming "live", various Stars in the entertainment world such as The Toast of Paris Josephine Baker, Bette Davis, Mae West, Marlene Dietrich, Phyllis Diller, Hermoine Gingold and others. To quote the woman who really started the whole thing, Pearl Bailey, "When I hear Lynne sing it is like listening to a play back of my own voice".
Link
Details from 'The Life and Times of William Gaines' by William J. Mann here.
ReplyDeleteOf note is this paragraph halfway down the page:
"Harry Hay, the pioneering gay activist (and one-time actor) remembers underground "pansy clubs" patronized by Hollywood's smart set c.1929. These speak-easies operated out of basements or peoples' apartments. They served bathtub gin and featured chorus boys in drag and female impersonators from New York. The pansy clubs had a half-life of little more than two weeks. Then they would be raided, and the floating party moved elsewhere. All this was duly noted in the "Hollywood Reporter." The gay clubs were permanently closed by 1933 through a local ordinance that effectively outlawed drag."
you should link it to "To Catch a Predator" on Dateline or whatever.
ReplyDeletelol she is very young...
So, from our top three guesses does anyone know if our Shimmies were known for their singing voices- were there any good singers in the bunch?
ReplyDeleteI have been researching for a while and I cannot find any solid links besides maybe Mary Pickford and Marie Dressler starring in a movie with Katherine Hepburn but that doesn’t necessarily mean they were friends and I think we threw out both guesses.
I am even more confused with these new hints but it is Friday and thankfully the weekend so I guess I know what part of my weekend will entail!
I still think finding Timmy will be hard with the clues we have thus far. I think it is interesting about K. Hepburn- but I am not sure yet if these new additions will help except maybe the singing- in helping us close the gap of who is Shimmy.
I am so going to the bookstore tomorrow to pick up the book about Bill Haines- hopefully they carry it!
here's the problem with Kay Kendall..she never won an Oscar..and EL's statement "When it came to the very big award, the one with all the television viewers, Timmy won again"
ReplyDeleteIt can't be the Golden Globes, as they were not televised for the first time until 1962, 3 years after Kay's death.
It has to be the Oscars. And that leaves KK out.
"Comments from entertainer Harold Weber (of Knight & Weber) on Lynne:
ReplyDeleteLynne Carter had a slight build, rapid fire patter, and a zest for entertaining. His enthusiasm on stage was unequalled. Most of his skits held the audience breathless, waiting for the next "shoe to fall". Truly Star status."
Link, bottom of page
I can't really remember, has anyone mentioned Katherine Hepburns "friend" Susan Steell? Seems there were ?'s about her and she supposedly had a great singing voice.(Doesn't really go with the clues though) Sorry for bringing up someone else!
ReplyDeleteThanks Enty for more clues.
ReplyDeleteThis is way out there, but looking at his clues, about Kate Hepburn, and remembering that Timmy went to Broadway after his movie stint as Shimmy, I went to Hepburn's history and looked up actors she was on stage with on Broadway in Coco, a musical. One of them was George Rose, a wellknown Broadway actor who won a couple Tonys. EL said that Timmy was one of Hepburn's faves, so I found George Rose, but have searched everywhere and cannot find one picture. Interestingly he was from England and even appeared in something with Rex Harrison. Gay, killed in 1988 (3 yrs off). Has a few movie credits too. Sketchy history before 49.
Rose, George
(b. Arthur Ropes)
Lyricist, librettist
b. Feb. 19, 1920 (Bicester, UK) - d. May 5, 1988 (Rio Plata, Dominican Republic)
In a forty year career, this versatile Englishman appeared in more than 20 Broadway productions. He won major attention in the Broadway production of A Man for All Seasons, playing several roles during the course of a long run. His first musical was the ill-fated Walking Happy (1966), followed by Canterbury Tales (1969) and Coco (1969). After co-starring with Lynn Redgrave in the comedy My Fat Friend (1974), Rose portrayed Alfie P. Doolittle in an acclaimed revival of My Fair Lady (1976) – a performance that brought him his first Tony for Best Actor in a musical.
Rose was equally effective at subtle humor and broad physical comedy, making him a great favorite with audiences and critics alike. He co-starred with Rex Harrison and Claudette Colbert in The Kingfisher (1978), and played the dual roles of Mr. Darling and Captain Hook in Sandy Duncan's revival of Peter Pan (1978). He delighted audiences and critics as the bumbling Major General Stanley in the hit revival of The Pirates of Penzance (1981), and was featured in the short lived musical Dance a Little Closer (1983). Rose appeared in two short-lived comedies before starring as the Narrator in The Mystery of Edwin Drood (1985), a role which brought him his second Tony. Less than a year after Drood closed, Rose was murdered by his young lover near their home in the Dominican Republic.
Oh nevermind, I don't even think that sounds right!hahaha It's 3:00am and I'm going to bed!
ReplyDeleteChenofan--
ReplyDeleteKK won a Golden Globe in 1958, which, according to Wikipedia, is the first year they were televised.
Can we please hear more about all this Katherine Hepburn gossip?
ReplyDeleteScandalous!!!!!!
Re: Lynne Carter
ReplyDeleteIf Timmy was pulling the world's greatest act of illusion by masquerading as an award-winning actress, I don't think he'd be putting himself out there so obviously dressed in other forms of drag for so many years. Even at the time the knew he was a drag artist. I doubt it's him.
George Rose was in the movie version as well as the revival of "Pirates of Penzance" on Broadway.
ReplyDeleteYou can probably find pics of him from that somewhere
Sorry that should read 'even at the time everyone knew he was a drag artist'
ReplyDeleteOkay, this is very long. Don't read unless you're obsessed with Timmy like I am. It's also rambly because I'm sick.
ReplyDeleteLemme piece this together…
Arthur Blake is born in 1914 in Altoona, PA. In a biography he claims that he sneaked into burlesque theatres at age four, impersonate the players at age 10. He works clubs and nightclubs around the country and finally goes to Hollywood. He can imitate anyone. He works his way towards Hollywood.
When does he get there? His first credit on IMDB is in 1936 at age 22, when he on IMDB in Lloyds of London in an uncredited role with Tyrone Power (who he later claims "came on" to him. He's then uncredited in 1937 in Souls at Sea and Madame X.
William Haines, who at this time is 36 and gayer than springtime, finds him. Haines is fresh off being kicked outta MGM for not partaking in a sham marriage. He gets under Haines' radar?
Meanwhile, Alice Brady, after a successful silent film career and a marriage from 1919-1922 that produced a son (who died in 1940 or so) leaves silent films in 1923 and goes to the stage. She comes back to Hollywood in 1933 and makes 5 films released in 1933, 2 films released in 1934, 4 films released in 1935, including Metropolitan with Cesar Romero (her "breakout" movie). In 1936 she is nominated for Oscar Best Supporting for My Man Godfrey. Then in 1936, 5 movies released and she wins for In Old Chicago. 5 movies released in 1937, two in 1938 and one posthumously released in 1939, after dying of a "virulent cancer" before her 47th birthday.
Alice Brady's father was head of the World Film Corporation which made silent films, President of the National Association of the Motion Picture Industry fights censorship in 1919. He may have had a bone to pick with MGM and all of Hollywood. Totally conceivable he would have been in on a ruse involving a fake version of his daughter.
So a plot is formed between Haines, Brady Sr., and others, to pull one over on MGM. Blake is brought in WHEN? to become Alice Brady.
Further supporting evidence:
Alice Brady's award being "stolen" by the male…
Picture of Sunset Blvd: location of MGM, one of Blake's famous impersonations was Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard (pic on the web)
Pic of Golden Horseshoe: Metropolitan, the pic with Cesar Romero, was also called Golden Horseshoe.
Pic of Miss Liberty Cast: ??
Pic of Legends of Hollywood: Blake famous for portraying the legends of Hollywood, does impression of Charlie Chaplin as major part of act (pic on the web)
Specific Ent Timmy details:
Slightly built, pale features: ???
Personality that wouldn't quit: yes, blake
Way of capturing an audience that was unlike anything most people had seen previously: yes, blake
First arrived, studio system strong: yes
Work on several films simultaneously share accommodations with other performers - did he room with Haines?
Worked often, nothing more than few lines and in chorus sections of musicals: IMDB blake credits may be lacking??
Supplement income, performing in local theater: doing impressions?
Lead actress unable to perform, he takes role? Perfectly understandable that this would be blake.
Goes back to his regular role - doing impersonations? Warming up audiences?
Excited about possibilities - gets the idea he could do this full time?
Worked 2 yrs building up a resume and background for his new persona: Could he be performing as a woman, but studying up on Alice Brady so that he can become her when he gets to Hollywood? No matter who Timmy is here, for it to fit Alice Brady, when is this and did he perform as her around the country or just assume her role in Hollywood?
Apartment: Who is JJ and who is his wife? AC Lyles doesn't fit, nor does Mickey Rooney. Hard to figure anyone present-day with a wife during this time period.
The award with TV viewers: Oscars, doesn't say these awards were on TV
Skin gets worse after award? Can't find any post-Old Chicago pics to see. Could it be that Blake's nose is inflamed? Could his nose swelling up be part of the hives/skin condition and that's why it looks so big in later life?
"same condition" = same swollen nose?
After killing off Brady, we have a problem.
Blake has roles in film from 1942 - 1957. He has a big role in 1950 in Cyrano de Bergerac. So Blake didn't abandon film and return solely to the theater. In fact, he wasn't obscure at all in the 50s. This part of the story seems to completely discredit Blake.
Blake dies 1985. Fits.
I want it to be him, but I'm skeptical. In closing, I think all of the scenario fits (the screw MGM, Alice Brady, etc) and Timmy could be anyone, really. I wish it were Blake because that makes the story all that much better, but it could be any young gay dude willing to act the part. Maybe I've found him, maybe I haven't. At this point, I want him to be more than just a random butt buddy and be someone of distinction, but maybe he just is the bit player wasting away from AIDS in the 80s...
More connections:
ReplyDeleteJulian Eltinge, the first well-known female impersonator:
Eltinge, Julian
(b. William Julian Dalton)
Female impersonator, actor, vaudevillian
b. May 14, 1883? (Newton, MA) - d. Mar. 7, 1941 (New York City)
The most famous female impersonator in 20th Century show business, Eltinge combined an uncanny ability to imitate feminine mannerisms with superlative taste in costumes. Two years after starring in the Broadway production Mr. Wix of Wickam (1904), he launched a successful vaudeville career. Eltinge took occasional breaks from vaudeville to star in Broadway musicals and silent films. In 1912, Eltinge became the only female impersonator ever to have a Broadway theater named after him – it is now the lobby of the AMC multiplex cinema on 42nd Street. But Eltinge saw his fame melt away as vaudeville collapsed and Depression-era audiences lost their taste for cross-dressing performers. He was appearing at Billy Rose's Diamond Horseshoe in Manhattan at the time of his death. Although Eltinge never married and lived a scandal free life, opinions on his sexual preferences remain divided."
What was the name of the Disney theatre from the pic Enty posted?
The Diamond Horseshoe.
So, can we take the picture from the original BI of the Diamond Horseshoe as a link to Julian Eltinge, who was a well-known female impersonator of his time - which could be a link to another well-known female impersonator?
BTW, I <3 Dire Potatoe.
The only other thing that worries me re: the Arthur Blake/Alice Davis connection is the physical description. He wasn't slight nor pale, whereas Lynne was AND Lynne's death was clearly from AIDS-related pneumonia, per his obit. How the heck does it all tie together, and who would SHimmy be if indeed Timmy was Lynne?
Pam:
ReplyDeleteWikipedia is incorrect..they were first televised in 1962 by Los Angeles television station KTTV
http://www.americancinematheque.com/archive1999/2007/Aero/GoldenGlobe2007.htm
Chenofan:
ReplyDeleteTried in vain. Maybe someone else is better at it.
sorry the end of the link was cut off:
ReplyDeleteAero/GoldenGlobe2007.htm
Beth:
ReplyDeleteit's the GOLDEN Horseshoe, not diamond @ Disneyland.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletewell here's a link to the poster of 'Penzance' with good likenesses..he's the Majr General with the mutton chops..click on the poster for a larger pic
ReplyDeletehttp://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Pirates-
of-Penzance-Posters_i941377_.htm
Also, re: Alice Brady. Why would Timmy walk up as himself and collect the award if he was trying to conceal the whole thing? Kind of stupid and risky, don't you think? And bound to stir up any existing suspicions? If he was scared of fronting up as a woman in the flesh, why not simply not come at all? Other actors did that.
ReplyDeleteDitto for the drag artists who were already known. And also the various the actresses who made comments that cast doubt on their womanhood. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT IF THEY WERE TRYING TO HIDE THE FACT THEY WERE A MAN??
I wish there was another pic of Lavere, but seriously, if you compare his pic to pics of KK, they DO have the same nose.
ReplyDeleteEither that or I've started hallucinating, which is entirely possible.
more pics of George Rose here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.maureenmcgovern.com/elaine/
pirates.html
Okay, but isn't it possible that ENT got his info from Wikipedia?
ReplyDelete**grasps at straws**
last George Rose..he's in this clip w/Hepburn in "Coco." He's Louis.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bluegobo.com/video/
_production.php?var=10078
I got it!
ReplyDeleteThe Golden Globes were televised locally from 58-63, then nationally afterwards.
Has anyone been able to confirm the "Miss Liberty" photo?
ReplyDeleteThe original production starred Eddie Albert and I don't think the man sitting front and center looks like him (from what little I can see... The guy in the upper left looks closer to Eddie Albert). I've been looking for links to that photo and have come up with nada. Nothing even close.
I've searched broadway histories, the Imperial Theater, liberty , Miss Liberty, musicals, cast photos, B&W images that are 400x233. Looked for digital watermarks and metadata in the photo. Even perused Ent's source code for hints.
*shakes fist* Damn you, Entertainment Lawyer!
if that's the case about the GG's then it wouldn't have been a BIG television viewing audience..but this alludes to the fact that the public had never seen a broadcast of the awards before:
ReplyDelete"Since 1955, the Golden Globes have honored achievement in television as well as film. By 1962, the general public was invited to share in the celebration when KTTV in Los Angeles first televised the awards. "
No, but it does mean we can't eliminate any of the GG winners, if the original BI only says 'televised', not 'nationally televised'.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I found, besides what was on Wikipedia.
Q&A from from funtrivia.com
In its early years (from 1958 to 1963), the Golden Globe Awards were televised locally in Los Angeles. Then in 1964 the awards were broadcast nationally during which television show?
The Andy Williams Show. The Golden Globes went national in 1964. These awards were not a show in their own right as we know them today. Rather they were presented in a special segment on the 'Andy Williams Show.'
gossip monger - I was just going to say that somebody should take one for the team and go check out/buy that billy haines book! I'm excited to see what you find...
ReplyDeleteI've been poring over these clues and dissected some of the original BI
something that struck me was shimmy "began winning regularly for his role" that she would later win "the big one" (presumably the oscar) for... does this suggest she won more than the oscar for this role?
off to research multiple winners...
Lynn(e) Carter was born in Cleveland, OH somewhere around 1925 or so. He died of AIDS in 85 at age 60. He would have been 12 around the time of Alice Brady...
ReplyDeleteYeah, I was thinking Lynne might be more apt for someone in the late 40's or early 50's. Plus he doesn't resemble Alice at all, whereas Arthur does.
ReplyDeleteI'll bet it was William Haines who accepted the award. Timmy never showed.
ReplyDeleteWon regularly for the role. Perhaps Tony Awards or Golden Globe, Screen Actors Guild?
ReplyDeleteTonys award would be out..Shimmy was only in movies at that time.
ReplyDeleteAnd the SAG awards have only been around for the past 15 years or so.
"Shortly after Timmy was cast as the lead, he was cast in another role which is the subject of the blind. Timmy was incredible in this role and whether his acting was as a result of his new found love or as a result of just the right part at the right time, Hollywood took notice and so did the critics. During award season, Timmy began winning regularly for his role. "
ReplyDeletemost likely critics awards, perhaps a Golden Globe if they were around then..
also remember that EL said that all of these events took place within a 50 year period that ended with Timmy's death ca 1980-1985..so given the William Haines connection..and that he was done making movies by 1934...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure on all the particulars, and this may be going out on a limb....but perhaps it was Vivien Leigh? With Laurence Olivier being the closeted actor. Katharine Hepburn adored her, she has an extensive background in theater "Gone With the Wind" is the first film, "A Streetcar Named Desire" is the second (for which she won 5 awards).
ReplyDeleteNot sure if I have all of the facts straight but Ent. did say the events spanned 50 years.
nope..EL said that the "actress" only worked for 3 or 4 more years as a woman after winning the award, and Vivien was still making films as well as doing theatre as Vivien until the mid 1960s.
ReplyDeleteWow. I did a google search for 'pansy clubs' and came across a book excerpt of a Howard Hughes bio called Hell's Angel.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to get a sense of the kind of debauchery that was happening on the downlow during the Timmy era, start with page 140 (Hughes' future lover, Gary Cooper, in liptstick), and continue through the section about Billy Haines taking Hughes to these clubs.
I hate that they skip over what must be the juiciest pages - I have got to get this book.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWith Josephine Hull out of the running, I'm really down to only Alice Brady or Kay Kendall, but I still have this feeling, that maybe we're completely forgetting someone here?!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think it was yesterday (though the days and comments are really starting to blur together) that someone mentioned we should try to name both Timmy AND Shimmy 'cause obviously the two have to fit for both guesses to be right.
I'm definitely still all for Kay Kendall for Shimmy (just a gut feeling) and then Walther Merrill for Timmy... it just fits! Though I have yet to figure out how this works with the latest William Haines and Kat Hepburn clues.
Also, while googling various Kendall and Brady items, I stumbled across a site that I thought was too funny:
http://hookedontimmy.spreadshirt.net
Extremely corny, no doubt about that, but I'm definitely getting my Team Kendall shirt, LOL
Wow, that was fast!
ReplyDeleteAnd I HAVE to have that Howard Hughes book. They really did leave out all the good parts. Thanks, dimes!
Must remove self from interwebs...my eyes are starting to glaze over.
referencing dual oscar/GG winners is turning up nothing substantial. most interesting find is margaret rutherford (best supporting in 1963), but she never worked in broadway (only in british theatre scene).
ReplyDeletelol @ the site, genesis!! great find!
RE: Lillion H. Stone 1902-1994??
ReplyDeleteHopefully, I am not bring up information that has already been discussed.
I found a photo of William Haines grave stone on the web.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6247880
Inscribed on his stone/placard is the name Lillion H. Stone (1902-1994).
(Jimmie Shields has his own placard)
Who is Lillion H. Stone??
Could be a clue??
Need to get my hands on his bio.
Library opens at 9 AM EST.
Later.
Hiya all,
ReplyDeleteLike you all, I've been consumed by this BI thing. Haven't slept in 18 hours and postponed going out with my bf till way later so I can do some more checking up. I blame ent!! *lol*
Anyway, in my obsession with this thing, I found something ultra-creepy. Now I'm not saying this is Timmy / Shimmy, but if I had to put my wager, I'm wagering on these two.
Nils Asther
http://film.virtual-history.com/cigcard.php?id=10596
Gale Sondergaard
http://www.nndb.com/people/062/000063870/
Compare the eyes and eyelids, shape and length of the nose, mouth, high cheekbones, ears plus the curve of the eyebrow bone. Look at the jawline.
Only thing that's snagging me is his entry at imdb : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0039989/bio
says that he's tall...
and Gale Sondergaard's at http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0814216/bio
says that she's not as tall as him...
I keep on looking at them and trying to find the scar... Thinking about that, did ent specifically state that the scar was on the face?
Plus she worked a lot after the Oscar win. It is creepy though. He's almost prettier than she is.
ReplyDeleteAll I know is, whenever I see "Alice Brady" I think of the maid on the Brady Bunch.
ReplyDeleteI found more information on Lillion H. Stone
ReplyDelete(name on William Haines tomb stone)
She appears to be female relative (sister?): Lillion Haines Stone
(found the information on ancestry.com)
Later.
Yes, if you click on the pic of the grave marker it says he's interred with his sister Lillian.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if I am completely sold on the Arthur Blake theories, but if you look at the pictures here (the closeups at the bottom), it looks like he has skin problems...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.queermusicheritage.us/drag-blake.html
Oh... also... ENT says that the explaination for the reveal will be lengthy; to me this means that all of the clues don't add up and the whole thing won't make any sense to us.
ReplyDeleteEh, where'd my comment go? Okay, I'll type it up again.
ReplyDeleteAll this cross-matching photographs has taught me is that a whole bunch of people look like a whole bunch of unrelated people.
Katherine Hepburn went to an all-woman college and was known for streaking and skinnydipping. So she was all woman. Unfortunately, she was a woman with a large circle of friends and acquaintances, so it's hard to narrow the circle of suspects down. Maybe Timmy was someone she mentioned in her autobiography.
wowow- a kate hepburn connection-NOW did she adore timmy OR shimmy??????
ReplyDeletethis is getting more delicious by the minute!!!
repeating this from an earlier thread......
ReplyDeletethere is a larger resolution copy of the photo ent published on the original blind of the golden horseshoe review cast photo. if you zoom in on the actor in the center rear he looks remarkably like one of the popular guesses for shimmy. if this guess is correct then finding the name of this actor might find timmy. so.....
is this timmy and shimmy????
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5489/timmyandshimmyyp0.jpg
I agree about the Click to Give sites, I click this one every day:
ReplyDeletewww.theanimalrescuesite.com (free food and care)
No new info here, but just for fun I thought you'd like to see a clip of William Haines in "Little Annie Rooney" with Mary Pickford.
ReplyDeleteHe seems like such an interesting character!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JvFjIfi134k
From Wisecracker Lillion Haines Stone is William haines's sister
ReplyDeleteInteresting CM
I started going through cast members from Coco...Katharine Hepburn's only musical. (Timmy is a singer) and found this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imdb.com/name/nm0008810/
Will B. Able (that has to be a made up name)
-born in the northeast
-died in 1981
-about a nine year gap in his career
Google has so far just turned up the imdb link and no pics...I will continue looking.
I had guessed Judy Holliday as Shimmy and Katharine Hepburn as the closeted A-Lister. EL posted that Judy Holliday was not Shimmy, but isn't this interesting about Katharine Hepburn?
ReplyDeleteHello again (this is the sleuth who is leaning AB, not the one who knows AC Lyles).
ReplyDeleteThis is certainly getting even more interesting . . . . I agree with missanonymous. It sounds like the whole story is going to be even more complicated that the original blind item!
I just had a thought I wanted to float re AB. I'm operating from memory of what I read in earlier posts, so if my recollection is wrong, let me know.
Here goes. What if:
AB is a real woman. Daughter of entertainment impressario. Silent film star. Well-known stage actress. Biological mother of Donald. I believe I read in someone's (ed's?) summary of AB research that at a certain point pre- talkie film career she had a "nervous breakdown." What if she never recovered? And what if it was really a shame because she had a promising talent for making it in talking film? What if the studios/her family decided to hire another actress, and unknown, to "be" Alice Brady, at least until the real AB was in a better condition to come back to work (if ever). What if they find an unknown actress who had be doing the stage circuit for "almost 2 years." I.e., they find Shimmy. They probably don't realize Shimmy is a man, but they do see a resemblance to AB, so they get Shimmy to act as AB. Maybe, in 1939, the real AB really does die of cancer, and that's who is buried in her grave/on the death certificate. Maybe Shimmy, who is having skin problems anyway, uses that event to slip back into his life as Timmy. (This part of the theory is optional.) The real AB may have been 47 in 1939, but Shimmy could have been much younger. It seems it's easier to play "older" in drag rather than younger, as men's skin isn't as delicate as women's. Shimmy/Timmy could be as young as 30 or so in 1939, making an early 1980s death from AIDS more plausible.
This theory explains away a couple of points Ent made. 1) Ent said Shimmy worked the stage circuit for less than 2 years before hitting films, yet we haven't been able to pin down this type of timeframe for our candidates (I seem to remember it doesn't really work for KK; is that correct or not?). It certainly doesn't work for AB. Under this theory, though, there's a reason for the discrepancy. Shimmy's 2 year stage stint is unknown because it was under a name other than "Alice Brady."
2) Ent hints that the real story has some complications not obvious in the clue. This would certainly be one: Timmy impersonates Shimmy, who is hired to impersonate AB. 3) Ent said originally that only 8-10 people know the "whole story." This suggests there are others who know "part" of the story (like, for instance, that the AB who won the Oscar isn't the AB who was the silent film star).
In any event, the new clues re Timmy have reinvigorated my obsession! Keep up the good detective work, everyone!
cm-
ReplyDeletethose photos are remarkable. unreal. I compared the proportions: chin to lips, lips to nose, nose to eyes, facial width, ear placement (his/her right ear is a bit lower than the left ear), distance between the eyes.
the camera angles are very slightly different, but that's the same face. (Interesting to note the shoulder slope is similar too, though that's not as definitive.)
take a look:
http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos4138/5/45/77/19/16/5/516197745505_0_ALB.jpg
I have just spoken to my nana (who is of that era herself) and when i suggested kay kendal possibly being a man she was shocked, she is now hooked and is desperate to find out who timmy is too!
ReplyDeleteRe: Will B. Able....the following is from the imdb "The Emperor's New Clothes (TV, 1967):
ReplyDeleteThe lead role of Emperor Maximillion is played by Will B. Able, a very talented dancer who -- oddly -- is given no chance to dance here. (I once met Will B. Able; yes, that's his real name, and he kept a copy of his birth certificate handy in case anybody doubted him.) Able manages the difficult task of depicting the emperor as a blustering fool while still keeping the character sympathetic.
VERY SLIGHT SPOILER COMING. As we all know, the climax of the story requires the emperor to appear naked in public, wearing the 'magical' new clothes that don't really exist, tailored for him by Stitch and Sew. This being a children's production, Able plays his 'nude' scene wearing an ill-fitting crown and a suit of red long-johns, and wielding a sceptre.
Chenofan: Had to drag myself off the laptop and go to bed, I live in the NY/NJ area. If I wasn't recovering from foot surgery, I would take a trip to the NY Library in Lincoln center, they have an extensive collection of old Broadway pics, playbills, etc.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the George Rose pics. All I know from them is that he wasn't that tall. But loved the site with the old musical clips!
Love the Hooked on Timmy Tee shirts web site too, but I'm not ready to commit to Brady or Kendall. After seeing the pics of kay & the guy from the review, I'm back to leaning towards Kay.
Must say that before this started, I was watching "The Great Lie" on TMC and couldn't get over how manly Mary Astor was. Plus in a pic of her with Bogart in "Maltese Falcoln" she has a big scar on her neck.However, she does not fit the profile. We have to stick to Shimmys that only worked for max 4 years after their award. Also, he said that it had been guessed on other sites before 8/31 and the only thing I know is that I remember one blog calling this item "Was Alice Brady Timmy?" and the only other ones I could find mentioned are Kay, Jo Hull & Judy (eliminated)and Ann Revere (worked too long afterwards).
EL's remark that it will take a long explaination makes me think that either one will be a stretch until he 'splains!
I am on the KK bandwagon.
ReplyDeleteFound this pic
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-3/687294/Mc.jpg
The picture above shows (from left to right): Terry McCarthy (Kay's dad/Jack's grandson), Kim McCarthy (Kay's sister), Gladys McCarthy (Kay's mum) and Kay herself. It was taken circa 1950.
and interesting, The lighthouse was then bought from Trinity House in 1986 by relatives of Kay Kendall, the famous 1950’s film star who starred in films such as “Genevieve,” as a memorial to the Withernsea born actress. Signed over to the lighthouse trust in 1990, the lighthouse began to take shape as a museum.
I thought the purchase so long after her death was unusual...makes me think that is when "he" died.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/humber/content/articles/2006/05/23/with_lighthouse_feature.shtml
Sleuth... I agree that if this Blind points to Alice Brady, the only way it fits is if there are two separate Alice Bradys. Your theory sure does cover all of the bases... good work!
ReplyDeleteOkay. For those of you out there that keep referring to the picture of KK where it looks like she has tig o'bitties I have one word for you.
ReplyDeleteGynecomastia
A condition where real men's bitties grow more than normal.
Heck, out of curiosity I even sat my unwilling husband down and made him bring his shoulders inward like KK in that picture. He does not work out so he's not muscular in that area but he has some very believable cleavage in that pose. He stormed off when I asked him to put on my bra. I guess that was just a bit too much!
>>dimes said...
ReplyDeleteWilliam Haines made his last movie when Kay Kendall was 8 years old. I suppose he could have mentored her, but it seems kind of a stretch. >>
Dimes,
One thing I keep coming back to is that Shimmy's bio is invented. Couldn't that also include her birth date?
Every time I look at the pics of KK, I compare it to the age that she's supposed to be according to her bio, and... she looks older than that. She is supposed to be 33 when she died in 1959, which means in Genevieve, she would have been 27. The person in that film does NOT look 27 years old. I find it very difficult to reconcile her supposed age with the way that she looks.
cm, I saw those pics the first time that you posted them, but with the addition of the rules someone else so kindly provided, the resemblance is even more amazing.
Team KK!
My first post on the subject (and I'm sorry it’s so long). It's also probably my last. But I'll keep lurking and reading ...
ReplyDeleteWhat if Billy Haines created the legend of Timmy as a way to show the greed and ineptitude of the studio system that had ended his career? What if, sitting around the table with Joan Crawford or Kate Hepburn (both of whom had their own issues with studio bosses) they decided to set up a story that a woman they didn’t care for (Norma Shearer, maybe?) was actually a man. Maybe as they told the story, they pointed out that the bosses only wanted money and marketable and docile stars - to the point where the bosses would make gay men marry women, and would keep a secret about having a bankable female actress they knew to be a man, as long as the profits and awards kept coming.
Maybe they even had the help of an actual male actor, a bit-part player, our Timmy. Maybe he was a contract player at a different studio than the actress, and their paths never even crossed. But maybe he knew Billy, because Billy became a mentor to young gay men trying to find their way in Hollywood. Or even if our Timmy went to work part-time at Billy's design house, to earn extra income.
Maybe they even got the idea when Timmy came to a Halloween party in drag, as the particular star, and that's where the idea was sparked.
Maybe Billy told the story at dinner parties or while picking out furniture with clients.
And if anyone questioned the story, they could always say, "Well, you've never seen the two of them together, have you?" Because why would an award-winning actress hang out with a no-name? Would they ever necessarily meet if they were at different studios?
Maybe, after years of telling the tale, it got embellished, and it naturally evolved. As the studio system faltered, it became less a story about the studio bosses and more about the gullibility, and the love of gossip, of the Hollywood community itself.
Maybe there were even elements of truth to the story. Maybe Timmy had dressed up as a girl because he knew two actresses (one of whom became Mrs. JJ) who needed a roommate, and he needed cheap rent. Maybe Mrs. JJ later helped the story, confirming the elements if she was asked by a curious dinner party companion.
Why would Timmy go along? Why not? Everyone who heard the story knew who he was. People might have been curious enough to seek him out, to cast him in movies, to invite him to parties.
What about the actress they claimed was a man? Maybe she didn't care. Maybe she knew enough about Hollywood spite to realize the story would eventually fade. Maybe she was even in on it, after a while.
As other people repeated the story, it changed even more. Who knows what generation of the tale we're on now? At this point, for me, it doesn’t even matter if the story is true. It's a great tale, and a great commentary on Hollywood and society in general over the years.
I've had a lot of fun, Ent., as we all have, and no matter what the truth turns out to be, I want to sincerely thank you for sharing Timmy with us.
Karen, good points.
ReplyDeleteI have to believe it is real though. Too much time invested already.
I think the Haines thing is a good start. He was treated unfairly and so in retaliation he may have "helped" Timmy as much as he could all the while laughing his ass off at the studios. Kind of an I'll show you attitude. I could see that happening and I could also see Kate in on it as well.
Jusshopn, there's only one photo anyone can find where Kay Kendall has anything even slightly resembling boobs, and in that one photo they look ginormous. Something was done to make her boobs look big, whether it was duct tape or something else. Every other photo she's as flat as an ironing board, so she didn't have Gynecomastia.
ReplyDeleteBetween her chest and Alice Brady's muscular back, I think they're BOTH men....lol.
Twisted: I so agree with you! We know don't we. The truth is out there!!! In the mix to uncover Timmy we have found multiple Timmies.
ReplyDeleteI don't really think KK had Gynecomastia either. I think it was all well designed. I posted that to prove that real men can grow some boobage.
I found a passenger list for KK in 1947 on ancestry.com. I have the original document saved to my computer (the site can’t be accessed wo being a member so I can’t link it.) but am not sure how I can post that so here are some relevant info from it.:
ReplyDeleteMcCarthy, Kay Justine K. Age 20 Sex F.
Destination: LosAngeles 1518 N. Benton Way
Birthplace: Withernsea England
Height: 5’ 2 ½ “ Complexion: Dark Hair: Fair
Single Occupation: Actress
Going to join cousin: Mr. & Mrs. Hary Holyome (above address)
There’s some other stuff but do you think the fact that she was traveling as a female at age 20 points away from her as Timmy???
This stuff about Katharine Hepburn is fascinating!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I totally want a Timmy t-shirt.
If that was started by someone here any chance some of the proceeds could go to charity? Perhaps a charity that helps/supports/encourages young gays/lesbians.